Who's going to fly drones in Europe in 2020?

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I think the CAA - and the GDPR for that matter - are both pretty definite that a photograph or video clip of a person is classed as personal data. There is even a question about this on the CAA's competency test where the correct answer is to edit out the footage of a person in their home before you post.

It's an interesting subject.
I agree a photo showing detail of someones face could identify them with the right tools and access to these.

We all know how close we have to be to capture such detail with our consumer drones, we'd be violating distance rules to fly in most countries.

My though is for something to have data (that can be captured), I would have expected it to be able to be linked to an individual (the 'personal' part) rather than an anonymous entity.
Some sort of facial recognition would be needed, then access to a database of such info which would likely only be available to the right authorities.

Flying a relatively deserted beach, and a few people appear along the way, you fly around them the required distance, they are in your photo or video.
What data do you have ?
None in reality.

If a photo or video with another human being in it is classified as personal data, and this becomes a widespread part of such legislation . . . well, we might as well all sell our drones now.

 

[Lastrexking]

Apologies if I wasn’t clear enough- I specifically pointed out the marketing and intended or expected use as a toy need only be incidental, not exclusive.

Had you looked at Directive 2009/48/EC you might have seen the important definition “This Directive shall apply to products designed or intended, whether or not exclusively, for use in play by children under 14 years of age (hereinafter referred to as toys)”.

As to DJI’s marketing you can form your own view obviously however even from the main opening page for the mini it seems we are open to suspect persons under 14 form part of the target market.

View attachment 85264

by that token, this car must be manufactured and marketed for children. Therefor, it’s a toy?

 

[WithTheBirds]

by that token, this car must be manufactured and marketed for children. Therefor, it’s a toy?

No. In fact for the purpose of the argument a car isn’t a toy as the relevant legislation specifically excludes it. It is “powered by a combustion engine”.

The issue is that your claim the Mavic Mini might not satisfy the sub 150g registration exemption by virtue of the fact is has a camera is demonstrably wrong.

 

[zocalo]

My though is for something to have data (that can be captured), I would have expected it to be able to be linked to an individual (the 'personal' part) rather than an anonymous entity.

That's pretty my working definition; if the person(s) can be identified from the image then it's PII, end of discussion. If they're in a public place, then doesn't matter as much except for certain commercial usage cases because privacy expectations are considerably lower - a few countries with insanely over-reaching privacy protection rules aside, anyway. You still need to meet any obligations under privacy laws like the GDPR, but those are almost non-existant for personal photography in a public space within the UK. Other jurisications will obviously vary.

For now it least, is all mostly moot. Once you factor in the typical lenses on drones (mostly wide angle, circa 24-28mm) and number of MP in the imagery and the chances of a problem if flying legally are pretty low, even with the 20MP of an M2P. Once the MP numbers go up and/or you use longer lenses though, it's definitely going to start being more of an issue.

If a photo or video with another human being in it is classified as personal data, and this becomes a widespread part of such legislation . . . well, we might as well all sell our drones now.

Which is where the "public space" get-out comes in; you really can't legislate that away without requiring that all private operators of CCTV security systems turn off their cameras or be licensed as well. Not to mention regular photography in general, which simply isn't going to happen unless we get into a really Orwellian state. Besides, all that data is useful to law enforcement in crimes and missing person cases, so I doubt that'll happen even then - perhaps even less so; you'll just be required to feed it all into the Panopticon...

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

That's pretty my working definition; if the person(s) can be identified from the image then it's PII, end of discussion.

Let's hope common sense is applied by the various authorities worldwide with regulations on drones, so far most are being fairly reasonable in developing policies.

 

[Paci Fista]

Just to clarify an important point on European Legal instruments: this is a Regulation, the highest type of legal tool in EU law, which is binding across all EU member states, and not a Directive (a general framework that needs implementation in the individual memberstates). So it leaves no room for local flavour and political bickering and delays. The June 2021 deadline is in fact for all 'local' or 'national' laws and regulations on this subject to be superseded by the Regulation. In my case, the general 10 meter (30') height limit which the Belgian law now applies, will be gone. Hurrah for the EU !

 

[wco81]

Well I'm having a real frustrating time trying to register with AAN, which is the Portuguese civil aeronautics authority which sets drone rules and requires registration.

They not only want you to register online but they want you to sign some legal declaration document that I either must mail or digitally-sign.

I've tried both ways, sending the signed declaration to them twice and they claim never to have received either. And digitally-signing is opaque because they don't tell you which vendor will get you a certificate for a reasonable price.

I can't wait until the EU laws get rid of all these ridiculous individual country rules, which have varying degrees of idiosyncracies.

It's like they want to punish people who want to comply with the rules but their rules and requirements for complying has to be somewhat reasonable.

 

[wco81]

Finally got registered with AAN in Portugal.

However, they want me to specifically request each area in which I want to fly for approval ahead of time.

Even areas where their maps indicate we're allowed to fly.

Seems so bureaucratic. If they had any kind of volume of requests, it probably wouldn't be scalable and it would probably take months to process requests.

Wonder if the new EU rules means you wouldn't have to bother registering with the AAN and going through this lengthy approval process.

 

[wco81]

So this seems to be an example of this new EU law being implemented.

It refers to ENAC, the Italian civil aeronautics agency, just passing new drone rules in December 2019.

It refers to needing to register both the operator and the drone they intend to use, starting on 1 July 2020.

https://www.d-flight.it/portal/en/pagamenti/

 

[Louis08]

Wonder if the new EU rules means you wouldn't have to bother registering with the AAN and going through this lengthy approval process.

Most probably yes, at least the process should be easier.
Portugal is known for having some of the most complex and complicated approval processes right now.

 

[wco81]

Unfortunately I'm going there in April so I will have to comply with their current process, which means submitting coordinates of all these places you want to fly.

 

[mgste]

by that token, this car must be manufactured and marketed for children. Therefor, it’s a toy?

If a drone can fly further than 400ft it is not a toy.

 

[Lastrexking]

If a drone can fly further than 400ft it is not a toy.

Ermmm.... yeah? I was the one stating it wasn’t a toy....

 

[Gkinghrn]

So this seems to be an example of this new EU law being implemented.

It refers to ENAC, the Italian civil aeronautics agency, just passing new drone rules in December 2019.

It refers to needing to register both the operator and the drone they intend to use, starting on 1 July 2020.

https://www.d-flight.it/portal/en/pagamenti/

i went through this and it says its related to March 2020 ... registering seems to want you to have sat an official course even for recreational use (which the UK one doesnt - just answer some online questions) ... minefield

 

[zocalo]

i went through this and it says its related to March 2020 ... registering seems to want you to have sat an official course even for recreational use (which the UK one doesnt - just answer some online questions) ... minefield

This kind of inconsistency is typical of the EU. The EU sets a legal requirement and some necessary specifications for it, but the actual text of the law that gets implemented and the fine details are down to the individual country that implements it. e.g. If the EU specifies that a certain tax should fall within a certain range, then some countries may just go with the minimum, but others might opt for higher values if it suits them to do so - e.g. the varying VAT rates across the EU (which range from 17% through to 27%).

The important thing though is the baselines and requirements set by the EU. In this case, the EASA requirements specify that the certifications are to be equivalent so, even if one EU country were to opt for a free online quiz and entering some serial numbers while another opts for a paid-for course and formal exam, then if you pass the free test you are still OK to fly in the second country - and the rest of the EU.

 

[wco81]

Yeah I hope it becomes obvious well before July which country has the least friction process for registration

 

[mgste]

Ermmm.... yeah? I was the one stating it wasn’t a toy....

 

[mgste]

oops

 

[Gkinghrn]

The Italian rule seems different to the U.K. from memory.

They state “ In order to use the SAPRs in Italian airspace it is also mandatory to obtain a unique identification code, called QR code, which represents the association between the operator registration number and a license plate assigned to the SAPR. This QR code must be applied on the SAPR before its use. The SAPRs used for recreational purposes only with take-off mass equal to or less than 250g and not equipped with high-definition cameras or any other instrument that could potentially compromise privacy are exempt from this obligation.”

So a Mavic mini drone would need to be registered simply due to its HD camera .... I can’t recall if that was the general EU directive or not.

But I guess , from what we are all saying , is that if you are registered in 1 country you are automatically registered in another (Euwise anyway) but the U.K. law does not require the drone to be registered due to it having an HD camera and Italy says it must be then I guess you’d have to register it and pay your annual fee to the CAA To be compliant in Italy... is that right?

As clear as mud ..

 

[Lastrexking]

The Italian rule seems different to the U.K. from memory.

They state “ In order to use the SAPRs in Italian airspace it is also mandatory to obtain a unique identification code, called QR code, which represents the association between the operator registration number and a license plate assigned to the SAPR. This QR code must be applied on the SAPR before its use. The SAPRs used for recreational purposes only with take-off mass equal to or less than 250g and not equipped with high-definition cameras or any other instrument that could potentially compromise privacy are exempt from this obligation.”

So a Mavic mini drone would need to be registered simply due to its HD camera .... I can’t recall if that was the general EU directive or not.

But I guess , from what we are all saying , is that if you are registered in 1 country you are automatically registered in another (Euwise anyway) but the U.K. law does not require the drone to be registered due to it having an HD camera and Italy says it must be then I guess you’d have to register it and pay your annual fee to the CAA To be compliant in Italy... is that right?

As clear as mud ..

No, that's not right mate. Currently, registration in the UK doesn't make you compliant in any country except the UK.

All this will change from July 1st when the new EASA (EU and UK wide) rules come into force, and all drones with a camera will need to be registered regardless of weight.