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Why is Congress interested in drones?

I don't like the situation any more than any other DJI users. I love the innovation, durability, and reliability of the DJI products that I have owned and the customer service demonstrated to me. We (the US), under the full support of the US business community, US citizens, and the US government allowed our self to fully immerse ourselves in the purchase and use of PRC subsidized products in our hobbies, business practices, and everyday life. Few thought of "what happens if this thing among China, Taiwan, and the US goes hot." Does anyone really think that DJI would not fowl up continued use of products in hand if this thing goes hot? Rather than rain insults and disrespect on me, how about truly thinking about the situation we find ourselves in, let's use something other than a me, me, me thought process, think about vulnerability for a moment. Too much emphasis on this website is about "spying" through use of the product rather than disrupting use of products that we have become reliant upon. Please give this some serious thought. I by no means am on board with legislation banning or blocking use of DJI products, I am merely asking this group to put on your war hats and think about things. I have been told many times I am still stuck in the cold war era. To that I respond, the cold war never ended, it merely expanded its theatres of operations.
I agree with you. "Too much emphasis on this website is about "spying" through use of the product rather than disrupting use of products that we have become reliant upon." Everyone loves a straw man to spit and curse upon. But its a straw man. My attention was drawn by watching all of these government agencies including law enforcement stand up in state legislatures and testify that they cannot possibly do their jobs and thousands will die if they can't fly DJI products.
 
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Our military power
It's hard to see how your answer relates to the question that was asked in post #8.

>>>> what kind of information, other than that which we willingly supply when we purchase and activate our equipment, could the Chinese glean from our use of DJI drones?

Your use of a drone isn't going to reveal any military secrets or anything of any value for espionage.
 
The Chinese government (CPC) does not need to "infiltrate" DJI. By law, all the CPC needs to do is demand DJI's information. There is no injunction and no appeal. Chinese companies must comply.

I'm not an expert on what information the CPC may want or find useful; there are people far more knowledgeable than me who can answer that. But I'll hazard an amateur's guess.

Infrastructure: Power plants, power lines, substations, dams, reservoirs, bridges, overpasses, loading dock cranes, loading dock volume and patterns, truck depots, train depots, airports.

Industrial espionage: production information, resources and logistics information.

Military espionage: signals intelligence, military base logistics and resource consumption information.

Actual kinetic targeting identification seems a distant possibility, but again, others may know more than I do.

There are significant gaps in satellite intelligence that drones can help fill, as witnessed by the Chinese spy balloon.

For a more professional opinion, Rear Admiral Mark Montgomery writes the following, "As a former Director of Operations at U.S. Indo-Pacific Command, my birthday wish would be to have U.S. drones comprehensively map China's infrastructure and download it to my targeting team. My war-planning counterpart in the People’s Liberation Army might be able to make that wish come true—unless we get serious about the threat of Chinese-made commercial drones that operate in the United States."

Even with the record button off, our Chinese drones are transmitting images all the time. We have no idea what other antennae besides our own remote controllers are receiving those signals.

I do not dismiss the information-gathering abilities of Chinese drones as easily as others here.

For more on the military perspective by RADM Montgomery, here's a link:

 
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Even with the record button off, our Chinese drones are transmitting images all the time. We have no idea what other antennae besides our own remote controllers are receiving those signals.
That's complete nonsense.
Just imagine how much espionage value there would be hanging around drone flyers to use some super snooper receiver to see the drone vision.
You think that's a viable source of espionage???

The people who suggest this kind of ridiculous paranoia don't seem to recognise that Chinese citizens can come into the country legally, travel around and and fly their own drones or fly light aircraft in areas they might be interested in.
The idea that they would sort through the mountain of completely uninteresting drone imagery in the hope that someone has managed to capture details of important military sites or critical infrastructure in the background of the park or beach where the drone was flown, is beyond ridiculous.



I do not dismiss the information-gathering abilities of Chinese drones as easily as others here.
And that's why some in congress are trying to push through such stupid legislation.
 
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That's complete nonsense.
Just imagine how much espionage value there would be hanging around drone flyers to use some super snooper receiver to see the drone vision.
You think that's a viable source of espionage???

The people who suggest this kind of ridiculous paranoia don't seem to recognise that Chinese citizens can come into the country legally, travel around and and fly their own drones or fly light aircraft in areas they might be interested in.
The idea that they would sort through the mountain of completely uninteresting drone imagery in the hope that someone has managed to capture details of important military sites or critical infrastructure in the background of the park or beach where the drone was flown, is beyond ridiculous.




And that's why some in congress are trying to push through such stupid legislation..
Nobody needs to hang around anywhere. Points of interest can easily be preselected. Doesn't DJI know the precise location of every drone and every drone operator? Really, how "super snooper" does a receiver need to be? The hardware could be as simple as a passive antenna and a power source.

Mountains of drone imagery can already be presorted for interest level by location alone. Software and AI can accomplish a lot of filtering. Humans can do the rest. An educated labor pool is one thing China is not lacking.

The amount of information collected by Siri and Alexa for US companies is already "beyond ridiculous," yet it's a reality. Other comments in this thread name numerous different sources of information. Software automation is sorting through mountains of data; the idea it's NOT happening is what's ridiculous.

There are those in the US military and intelligence communities who believe access to these mountains of information gives China an advantage. Uninteresting is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Mountains of drone imagery can already be presorted for interest level by location alone. Software and AI can accomplish a lot of filtering. Humans can do the rest. An educated labor pool is one thing China is not lacking.
Maxwell Smart wouldn't come up with a scheme as ridiculous as this one.
It would be rejected as a plotline for a Donald Duck comic.
 
What happened that got the Feds interested in just DJI drones?

Because they are the main consumer drone manufacturer and no government is happy that everyone can now peep everywhere with a <250g that you can't see nor hear while records you, your property or your dirty deeds.

Cameras have always been sort of a weapon in the good photojournalist hands, now give them wings, an effective range of up to 9Km, telephoto, a thermal camera, or the ability to easily enter a window and navigate indoors (Avata) and they are basically shitting on their pants, hence RID, hence the restrictions.

No one cared about quads, they were just another toy for RC enthusiast till someone started to mount webcams on them and transmit the image wirelessly.
 
Maxwell Smart wouldn't come up with a scheme as ridiculous as this one.
It would be rejected as a plotline for a Donald Duck comic.

The technology exists, as does the motive. Our military believes it.

Mass surveillance is real. Snowden proved it.

Our data is already being collected, sorted and sold by commercial enterprises. Your head's in the sand if you think it's farfetched for adversarial governments to do it.

Are you one of those who believe that was just a stray Chinese weather balloon? A Chinese Maxwell Smart came up with that plot, too.
 
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The technology exists,
The technology doesn't exist to find espionage worthy information in your drone videos or images.
The idea that all you have to do is look at everyone's videos and you'll find secret information is crazy.
Why do people continue to spout such rubbish?

Given what I put the second part of post #25, why would they bother with what you are suggesting?
 
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With software capable of voice, facial, and license plate recognition, I don't know how you can believe the technology doesn't exist.

The people who suggest this kind of ridiculous paranoia don't seem to recognise that Chinese citizens can come into the country legally, travel around and and fly their own drones or fly light aircraft in areas they might be interested in.
I think the above is the part you're referring to. (Post #25.) The first part of the sentence is ridiculous and reductive. Of course people recognize Chinese citizens come to the US legally. Tourism is a thing.

The second part proves my point. They can come with aerial surveillance devices, made in China, and capable of loitering with an eye in the sky for 40 minutes at a time. They need not even bring the devices. They can buy them at Costco.

The Chinese could insert a surveillance team, wearing ghillie suits and equipped with optics, counting the trucks going into and out of a Raytheon plant.

Or they could launch a drone.

You want to dismiss this with flippant remarks about Maxwell Smart and Donald Duck. It's obvious you don't care to comment on the real concerns by the military.
 
It's more feasible that the proposed ban has more to do with the US not being able to compete with DJI tech or pricing (why do you think Skydio is the main lobbyist for this). If it were Chinese tech they were worried about, they would need to ban way more than just drones. A vast amount of electronics in this country are from China.
 
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With software capable of voice, facial, and license plate recognition, I don't know how you can believe the technology doesn't exist.


I think the above is the part you're referring to. (Post #25.) The first part of the sentence is ridiculous and reductive. Of course people recognize Chinese citizens come to the US legally. Tourism is a thing.

The second part proves my point. They can come with aerial surveillance devices, made in China, and capable of loitering with an eye in the sky for 40 minutes at a time. They need not even bring the devices. They can buy them at Costco.

The Chinese could insert a surveillance team, wearing ghillie suits and equipped with optics, counting the trucks going into and out of a Raytheon plant.

Or they could launch a drone.

You want to dismiss this with flippant remarks about Maxwell Smart and Donald Duck. It's obvious you don't care to comment on the real concerns by the military.
Its not a matter of something not existing, its more a matter of reality.. Its far more likely actual chinese citizens already here would travel to places of interest to gather data if there was a reason.

However, we do not need to worry about that, When we have a current administration that will let Chinese spy balloons cross from one side of the country to the other without any interference. Why do we need to worry about everything else you mention, let alone what some random DJI flight might spot...
 
It's more feasible that the proposed ban has more to do with the US not being able to compete with DJI tech or pricing (why do you think Skydio is the main lobbyist for this). If it were Chinese tech they were worried about, they would need to ban way more than just drones. A vast amount of electronics in this country are from China.
DJI has outspent Skydio on lobbyists by a very large margin.
 
It's more feasible that the proposed ban has more to do with the US not being able to compete with DJI tech or pricing (why do you think Skydio is the main lobbyist for this). If it were Chinese tech they were worried about, they would need to ban way more than just drones. A vast amount of electronics in this country are from China.
What is the source that says “Skydio is the main lobbyist for this”? I didn’t know that kind of information was easy to get.
 
What is the source that says “Skydio is the main lobbyist for this”? I didn’t know that kind of information was easy to get.
Some of it came out here:
Watch the video to get more detail.

Google Skydio + lobbying and you'll find lots more info
 
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What is the source that says “Skydio is the main lobbyist for this”? I didn’t know that kind of information was easy to get.
This is a very good summary:

The final sentence says it all ....
the political threat brewing in the United States that is possibly going to disastrously effect over 90% of the drone pilots in the country unless it is stopped is based on misinformation, fear mongering, greed, ignorance, shady backroom deals, and outright lies.
 
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This is a very god summary:

The final sentence says it all ....
the political threat brewing in the United States that is possibly going to disastrously effect over 90% of the drone pilots in the country unless it is stopped is based on misinformation, fear mongering, greed, ignorance, shady backroom deals, and outright lies.
Thanks, Meta4, I’ll take a look.

I’ll add that I’d be a professional skeptic if there was any money in it. That final sentence you’ve quoted could describe just about every side in any controversy we have in our country, which would explain the circular firing squad we’re all surrounded by!

K.D.
 
Apparently AUVSI has some concerns about DJI and its 90% market share.

Whitepaper: AUVSI Partnership for Drone Competitiveness


Excerpt:

China’s dominance of the electronics supply chain, including drones, is harming U.S. national security interests, domestically and in Ukraine, and exposes the risk of relying on a strategic competitor for a key supply chain. The United States government ― the White House, DoD, DOJ, and Congress ― have all deemed Chinese-made drones as a whole, and DJI specifically, as a threat to national security. Accordingly, action must be taken for the U.S. drone market to compete on a level playing field and grow to meet the demand of the U.S. military and commercial industries.

WHO IS AUVSI?​


The Association for Uncrewed Vehicle Systems International (AUVSI), the world's largest nonprofit organization dedicated to the advancement of uncrewed systems and robotics, represents corporations and professionals from more than 60 countries involved in industry, government and academia. AUVSI members work in the defense, civil and commercial markets.
 
What happened that got the Feds interested in just DJI drones?
Not any one thing. For some in Congress it's the Flavor of the Month, a cause they don't really believe in, but looks good on their political resume. For others, it's well meaning concern about a hostile government spying on us.
However, for the latter, to date they have not offered to my knowledge any concrete evidence that DJI is passing on critical information to the Chinese government. Their misgivings are based on conjecture (China=bad). Some are nothing more than a front for American drone companies that want to gain in Congress an advantage they can't achieve in the market.
 
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