Wind warning + RTH

[PhantomFandom]

Mathmatically perhaps. But practically? Not for many.

Yes absolutely practically! Working in a system that is decimal (base 10) is soooooo much easier than the imperial system with its hodge-podge mixture of arcane units. How ridiculous is it to think that we have inches, 12 inches to a foot, 3 feet to a yard, 5.280 feet to a mile or 16 ounces to a cup, four cups to a quart, 4 quarts to a gallon? It is really insane. Even temperature is so much easier when using Celsius instead of Fahrenheit.

I live in the USA and always use the imperial system for measurement here, but to say it is easier just is not correct.

"not for many" is based on what measure? With everyone that uses imperial you may have about 453 million people, and that's being generous by including the UK. The earth's population is about 7.6 billion. So overall only about 6 percent use imperial. Out of those how many would say it is more practical? More practical and more familiar are two totally different things. So in my estimation I would say imperial is the one that is not practical for the overwhelming majority.

Therefore when it comes to expressing measurements should a multinational corporation (DJI) or a world-wide forum (this one) cater to the few or the many. I contend it should cater to the many and use metric.

I will always find metric annoying as I have no physical/mental relationship to it. I tried settign my UAV app to m/s and felt like I might as well have been reading Chinese.

It is just familiarity with what you know. If you make the effort to use metric you can see how much more practical and actually easier it is to use.

 

[BadWolf1]

>>>Metres/sec makes calculations very easy.<<<
Mathmatically perhaps. But practically? Not for many. In 2012 I lived in Mexico and even owned a car there, which has fully integrated the metric system. But as someone who psychologically relates to distances in speed and often (but not always) in the Imperial system, while I could do the math and didn't need to do conversions while drivng because the speedometer was in kph and the gas stations dispensed in liters. I remember driving 80kph on the Anillo Periferico and remember feeling a disconnect as it felt slow as h*ll while the speedo read 80. I suppose I will always find metric annoying as I have no physical/mental relationship to it. I tried settign my UAV app to m/s and felt like I might as well have been reading Chinese.

Meters (or feet) per second vs KM (or miles) per hour ? Some are right in some places, other are right in others.

Seeing the map above I'm "mixed" bordering on confused.
My height is in feet and inches , distances to places in miles, dimensions in millimetres, an altimeter should read in feet, but maps and GPS devices in meters, depths underwater only in meters, and pressures are in bar, unless its tyre pressures which are still PSI. I went diving in Canada and driving there the roads were in KM, but the dive kit had come from the US so underwater we were in feet and PSI !
Milk or beer come in pints, but petrol (gas) switched to litres about the time I started buying it - trip computers came in later but give fuel economy in miles per (British) gallon. (Or as I laughingly call it furlongs per pint).
Natural gas is measured in cubic metres but is converted into feet and then to calories for billing. And then to KiloWatt hours to compare with electricity.
Worst of all temperature are in Celsius unless you're talking weather on a hot day (70 -100 F)

And don't get me started on date formats!

Yes absolutely practically! Working in a system that is decimal (base 10) is soooooo much easier than the imperial system with its hodge-podge mixture of arcane units. How ridiculous is it to think that we have inches, 12 inches to a foot, 3 feet to a yard, 5.280 feet to a mile

How about area. Its one chain by one furlong ! Or if you prefer 10 square chains. Everyone knows that a chain is the length of a cricket pitch of those make a mile. Oh.... Why do you mean you don't know how long a cricket pitch is ?

A chain is 22 yards, (still used on the railways here in Britain) a furlong is 10 chains (only used in horse racing) and a 8 furlongs make a mile. But how many things have 11 as a divisor - the acre has two of them. It's 1/640th of a square mile and what else is divided into 640ths.

 

[ff22]

Your drone should fly and climb just as fast at 20% as it does at 100%

DJI specs give the max speeds for many of their drones in m/s.
Metres/sec makes calculations very easy.
And there's also this:

Look at the settings and you'll probably find that you can select from a range of units.

We, the USA, are in excellent company! (g) But, at least, a bit less, schizophrenic then the UK! (g)

 

[kjmasson]

Us Canadians are a bit mixed with units depending on the field of work. I worked for a communication company and we always discussed tower height in feet, yet distance was kilometers/hour. I find I use imperial wrenches as much as I use metric. So by default, I know inches (and fractions) and cm even though in school, we were taught metric only. It's very strange.

Back to the topic at hand...
I saw on another thread about increasing RTH speed beyond 8m/s during a RTH by pushing the forward direction stick up... I tested this twice and watched my speed increase beyond 8m/s.
I'm thinking when video feed is lost but not communication with the RC, you could wait a few seconds as the mini orients itself back towards home, then push up on the forward stick to fight some of that head-wind if it exists. Good to know in an emergency fly away situation due to wind.

 

[Tomas H.]

>>>Metres/sec makes calculations very easy.<<<
Mathmatically perhaps. But practically? Not for many. In 2012 I lived in Mexico and even owned a car there, which has fully integrated the metric system. But as someone who psychologically relates to distances in speed and often (but not always) in the Imperial system, while I could do the math and didn't need to do conversions while drivng because the speedometer was in kph and the gas stations dispensed in liters. I remember driving 80kph on the Anillo Periferico and remember feeling a disconnect as it felt slow as h*ll while the speedo read 80. I suppose I will always find metric annoying as I have no physical/mental relationship to it. I tried settign my UAV app to m/s and felt like I might as well have been reading Chinese.

Well, it depends where you grew up. We from Europe are grown metric, so to have for example the distance once in miles, then in feet ..this is for us a bit confusing. You referred car... probably miles per galon is our favorite head spinner , to recalculate this to litres per 100km I need to think really hard (even I have engineering university degree). But in the end we like the same drones and that is how it should be. Fly many safe miles ... or kilometres !

 

[scro]

Meters (or feet) per second vs KM (or miles) per hour ? Some are right in some places, other are right in others.

Etc...

Does this lovely confusion of units make British people "multilingual" when it comes to units?

I'm equally comfortable with miles, km, ft, mm, in, gallons, litres, psi, bar, pints, Celsius, Fahrenheit, meters, kg, lbs, stone, and more as I have to deal with them all regularly. I guess it all comes down to what you're familiar with.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

Starsky1970s I think you are perhaps missing an important point, in trying to return against a headwind that it can not beat it will be blown away. As in, it remains in the air, losing ground, until the battery is out of juice and then it comes down, depending on how high it was when the landing process started, possibly in freefall. During which time it could have been blown miles and over people, a town or the sea etc.
If it is blown out of control range with the failsafe set to RTH and continues to lose ground there's not a thing you can do about it.
There are several threads in here depicting just such events.
If I thought my drone was, despite mine and the drone's best efforts, being blown towards loss of connection I, for one , would be inclined to bring it down either in a controlled landing or crash or by changing the failsafe to land.
Even with the latter there is a question I have yet to test, what will the drone do if it thinks the landing area is unsuitable, will it 'hover' (and maybe be blown farther away) or land, better I think to bring it down before control is lost.
I actually very nearly did this with a phantom 3 that got caught in a 'squall', it had been blown downwind over houses and I could not get it to come back. I was literally about to start flying it sideways out to sea for a ditching when either the squall died or left the Phantom behind

 

[vindibona1]

Starsky1970s I think you are perhaps missing an important point, in trying to return against a headwind it can not beat it will be blown away. As in, it remains in the air, losing ground, until the battery is out of juice and then it comes down, depending on how high it was when the landing process started, possibly in freefall. During which time it could have been blown miles and over people, a town or the sea etc.
If it is blown out of control range with the failsafe set to RTH and continues to lose ground there's not a thing you can do about it.
There are several threads in here depicting just such events.
If I thought my drone was, despite mine and the drone's best efforts, being blown towards loss of connection I, for one , would be inclined to bring it down either in a controlled landing or crash or by changing the failsafe to land.
Even with the latter there is a question I have yet to test, what will the drone do if it thinks the landing area is unsuitable, will it 'hover' (and maybe be blown farther away) or land, better I think to bring it down before control is lost.
I actually very nearly did this with a phantom 3 that got caught in a 'squall', it had been blown downwind over houses and I could not get it to come back. I was literally about to start flying it sideways out to sea for a ditching when either the squall died or left the Phantom behind

I think you have cited the scariest of scenarios. It's thoughts like these that may accelerate my transition to something more robust like the MA2 sooner than I thought I might. It's not that I haven't grown to love my little Mavic Mini, but even with very light breeze like we had the other night, I saw the "strong wind alert" come up on my screen and immediately pulled back on the left lever to get it down ASAP. And perhaps the last thing I want to do it hit RTH sending it up into stronger winds before heading home. I suppose I need to be more alert of wind direction, trying to send it out into the headwind for less risk.

 

[EyesWideShut]

Are the mini's wind warnings based on which mode you are currently flying in? For example if you are flying in Cine Mode and are getting some wind warnings, if conditions stayed the same, would you continue to get them if you bumped up to Position or Sport Mode?

 

[PhantomFandom]

I suppose I need to be more alert of wind direction, trying to send it out into the headwind for less risk.

BINGO !!

The key to successful flights is planning, knowing the limits of your craft, planning, knowing your surroundings, planning, having situational awareness, and oh planning. Think about all the factors and don't get yourself in a bad situation to start with. This applies whether it is a MM or an I2. They each have their limits and characteristics.

 

[PhantomFandom]

Are the mini's wind warnings based on which mode you are currently flying in? For example if you are flying in Cine Mode and are getting some wind warnings, if conditions stayed the same, would you continue to get them if you bumped up to Position or Sport Mode?

I don't have a MM so I cannot comment on when and how those wind warnings pop up. However I think you may be looking at it from the wrong side of things. In many cases by the time you get the wind warning, it may be too late. The key is to know the conditions and not get into that situation to start with.

No matter the flight mode, if the wind is getting close to the operational limits of the MM then you will have problems.

 

[scro]

I believe the wind warning is triggered when the drone estimates winds to be exceeding 8m/s, regardless of mode - that's my experience anyway.

On windier days I often fly in S mode and get lots of wind warnings. In these conditions I'm typically flying well within VLOS so can tell if the drone is struggling to hold station. I have had literally hundreds of wind warnings, but only seen the drone blown off course on 2 occasions - both were easily managed as I knew I was close to the drone's limits and had planned for that possibility.

I think that understanding what the wind warning really means is the correct way to look at it. The warning doesn't necessarily mean you must abort the flight and go home.

 

[BadWolf1]

Does this lovely confusion of units make British people "multilingual" when it comes to units?

I'm equally comfortable with miles, km, ft, mm, in, gallons, litres, psi, bar, pints, Celsius, Fahrenheit, meters, kg, lbs, stone, and more as I have to deal with them all regularly. I guess it all comes down to what you're familiar with.

I know all the conversion factors. A UK gallon of water weighs 10LB, a pound is 454 grams, so that's 4.54 kilos and a kilo of water occupies 1 litre, so a gallon is 4.54 litres. I can convert, but it's like counting or swearing you do it in your native tongue. I learned recipes in pints and ounces, but I never bought petrol in gallons. So milk or cheese is imperial, fuel is metric. As a Scuba diver I know pressure goes up by 1 bar every 10 M , I can't do PSI - unless it's tyres there 2 bar makes no sense until I convert to 30PSI. It's no good telling me my weight should be about 75KG, or even 165lb, but 12 Stone is fine. But tons and decimals not tons and CWT please ... unless it is a half-hundredweight sack of potatoes.
I'm not phased by seeing distances on railway bridges in miles and chains (do we use chains anywhere else), but miles and decimals makes more sense than miles and yards.
It's like fractions with hours. 15 minutes is a quarter of an hour and 30 is half an hour. But we never say a third of an hour we only say 20 minutes. We don't think in eighths an hour we'll use 5 or 10 minutes (never a 6th or 12th).
At least with metric you'd think the fractions problem goes away but someone always sneaks in cm or microns... which are metric but not SI.

 

[vindibona1]

EyesWideShut said:
Are the mini's wind warnings based on which mode you are currently flying in? For example if you are flying in Cine Mode and are getting some wind warnings, if conditions stayed the same, would you continue to get them if you bumped up to Position or Sport Mode?

I don't have a MM so I cannot comment on when and how those wind warnings pop up. However I think you may be looking at it from the wrong side of things. In many cases by the time you get the wind warning, it may be too late. The key is to know the conditions and not get into that situation to start with.

No matter the flight mode, if the wind is getting close to the operational limits of the MM then you will have problems.

Yes, but... I have consulted the UAV Forecast app each time before deciding to fly. In the scenario I cited above, the wind was very low, perhaps as low as 4mph with gusts at 7mph to 8 or so at 200 feet. I was up pretty high, probably around 200ft when the warning came on. And while I did my due diligence in making sure the conditions were green the warning which happened he same day on two occasions spooked me and I responded immediately.

With all the reviews of the MM and MA2 I think the one element that is understated if not overlooked entirely when reviewers recommend done choice is the ability of each drone to withstand wind gusts. The Mini has two categories that I think, beyond price, might or even should be the deciding factor when choosing between the MM and MA2: 1) Power to withstand wind gusts (blow away resistance). 2)Video quality and capabilities. In a way I wish I had known how stable and sophisticated the DJI drones are compared to my first Chinese drone failure. The video quality on the MM is quite good and good enough for me right now. So for me the choice would have been swayed by wind resistance and power to overcome.

While I'm 90% happy with the MM with the experience I have now, I might have chosen the MA2 had I known three weeks ago what I know now. Affordability wasn't the issue.

 

[BadWolf1]

With all the reviews of the MM and MA2 I think the one element that is understated if not overlooked entirely when reviewers recommend done choice is the ability of each drone to withstand wind gusts. The Mini has two categories that I think, beyond price, might or even should be the deciding factor when choosing between the MM and MA2: 1) Power to withstand wind gusts (blow away resistance).

That conveys a certain lack of understanding.
Any aircraft supported by the air moves with the air. (Just as a boat floating on water moves with the water) . There is no simple "ability to withstand wind gusts".
There is the ability to hold position as wind varies - to quickly change attitude in the air and vary prop output to give an air speed equal and opposite to the wind speed.
And there is maximum airspeed. A drone which can achieve an airspeed of X can make progress against a wind averaging up to X. If you know the drone's top speed you know what it's wind limit is.

There is a third area which influences the selection of mini - additional things required to fly a heavier drone legally (which vary from place to place, and are viewed differently by different pilots).

 

[vindibona1]

That conveys a certain lack of understanding.

There is a third area which influences the selection of mini - additional things required to fly a heavier drone legally (which vary from place to place, and are viewed differently by different pilots).

It isn't a lack of understanding at all, but a simplification for those who might be in the throws of making a choice without going into the technical mumbo-jumbo. A beginner, one who has never operated a drone, and I can use myself as a (now former) example, isn't looking at a drone's max speed vs air speed and ability to move through strong winds. Someone perusing the blogs and videos to choose their first drone isn't consulting a UAV forecast app, studying what the wind speeds are typically in their area. Top mph/Kph drone speeds might be noted tangentially, but in the SCORES of videos I watched when deciding on my first (and second) drones, particularly in comparisons, not one that I watched made much if any mention of or noted the importance of a drone being able to fly faster than a headwind speed. If it was, perhaps that should have greater emphasis.

Noting that the MA2 has a top speed in sport mode of about 42mph vs the MM top speed of approximately 26mph, I never once heard anyone quantify how much of a stronger wind the MA2 can fly against. In fact, before ordering the MM I crated a thread asking if a more expensive drone was more "crash proof" than the less expensive Mini. I didn't see any responses noting top speed vs wind speed and ability to RTH.

But yes, I am guilty of overlooking the international scope of the different regs that different countries impose. Here in the US I didn't see enough objectionability to registering a drone (though curiously the application didn't ask for a drone model or serial number) that I knew that I'd be putting lights, possibly legs or other accessories on my drone pushing it over the limit requiring registration. So perhaps that should be a 3rd element that should be added to my list of important things to consider when choosing a drone, beyond price itself.

As a side note, I am doing a personal project which requires some additional footage. Windspeeds the last 2 days have been 12-14mph with additional gusts, which kept me from flying my Mini, a condition that I would be confident in flying a MA2 in... at least based upon your formula of top speed vs wind speed.

 

[BadWolf1]

It isn't a lack of understanding at all, but a simplification for those who might be in the throws of making a choice without going into the technical mumbo-jumbo.
A beginner ... ,isn't looking at a drone's max speed vs air speed and ability to move through strong winds.

What you might see as "mumbo-jumbo" is something which most people get. If you swim in a river with a 1 mph current, and you can swim at 2MPH, your speed relative to the bank is 3MPH with the current, and 1MPH against it. You can't overcome a 4 MPH current, but a boat with an engine could...
it's not a massive leap to say the wind will blow a drone backwards if it is faster than the drone's top speed, otherwise the drone can make progress over the ground.

Yes people with no clue about what the limits are - that includes registering, taking pilot tests, doing or not doing certain things while flying, not flying in particular spaces, or wind - consider it their God-given right to own and fly the drone of their choice.

 

[Droning on and on...]

My experience with the Mini and wind so far is:
It gives strong wind warnings very quickly, while it is perfectly able to hold it's ground in C-mode, P-Mode and S-mode.
I have only twice noticed that the drone was being blown backwards, both occasions it was very windy and I flew up the drone specifically to test how well it deals with the wind.
On those occasions I put the drone quite a distance in front of me so that it could be blown back quite a distance before it reached me.
I had to put up the drone quite high on those windy days before it was being blown back. Up to 50 meters, it was still doing great.
I've tried the RTH on a couple of occasions when it warned me RTH wouldn't work due to the wind. On all occasions it returned to home just fine.
So I think when you get such strong wind warnings, a good test is to fly your drone directly into the wind in P-mode and see how many m/s it is still moving. If it only flies at 2-3 m/s, you know you don't have much margin of safety. Such a test is always a good idea, even if you don't get a strong wind warning.
First you obviously need to know the direction of the wind. I use a combination of the UAV forecast app, the windy app, plus looking at the clouds and trees and how the wind blows into my face.
Would be nice if the mini like other DJI drones using the DJI GO app rather than the DJI FLY app shows visually in what direction it is battling the wind...

Also my impression is that UAV Fly is always exaggerating how much wind there is and Windy also a bit.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

To see wind direction, in a hover switch the gimbal to FPV mode and slowly 'spin' the drone, the image on the screen will tilt as the drone approaches side-on to the wind, the 'low' side to windward. The amount of tilt is an indication of wind strength but I'd still prefer the Go4 apps 'attitude indicator' or a selectable ATTI mode

 

[vindibona1]

What you might see as "mumbo-jumbo" is something which most people get. If you swim in a river with a 1 mph current, and you can swim at 2MPH, your speed relative to the bank is 3MPH with the current, and 1MPH against it. You can't overcome a 4 MPH current, but a boat with an engine could...
it's not a massive leap to say the wind will blow a drone backwards if it is faster than the drone's top speed, otherwise the drone can make progress over the ground.

Yes people with no clue about what the limits are - that includes registering, taking pilot tests, doing or not doing certain things while flying, not flying in particular spaces, or wind - consider it their God-given right to own and fly the drone of their choice.

I think you are missing my point... The generic statement I made was a call to those who make comparisons to INCLUDE that information as to QUANTIFY comparative information as that might be critical to making the right purchase decisions. Of all the things I wish that I had known prior to buying the Mini is what the limitations are flying into headwinds compared to, in my case the MA2. I really like the MM and so far am ok with the video resolution for my current purposes. But knowing what I know now in regard to wind resistance, max speeds against wind etc knowing me I probably would have chosen differently. That's all.