AMA announced as the first FAA recognized CBO.

[SmilingOgre]

I think most, (myself included) feel as you do. I flew RC for years and the burden of finding a field, joining the AMA then joining a club seems pointless, burdensome and expensive to a typical drone flyer. I agree.

That said, no one is saying we have to; now or in the future. Only those who (for whatever reason), don't want to comply with RID, will have FRIA's as an option.

The AMA safety code is a a hobbled-together patchwork of documents that has been evolving since rubber band-powered toy models took to the sky. They (AMA) never envisioned models over 55 pounds. They never envisioned turbine powered models flying in excess of 200 MPH. They never envisioned FPV and they certainly never envisioned the explosive growth of drones. Their website is full of broken links not because they are trying to make it difficult but rather out of incompetence

The AMA is stuck in the mid seventies but because they ran model aviation pretty well for over 70 years, the FAA has appointed them the first CBO and now they will struggle to catch up.

If I were solely a recreational flyer, I would simply download the FAA Document AC 91-57C and print it off. It is seven pages (six if you don't count the feedback mail in form at the back) and read it a few times and keep with me when I fly and make sure I am within those guidelines. If ever asked by an LEO or FAA official to provide what rules I am following, I would tell them that I am following the FAA's safety guidelines for recreational fliers.

I think I'm just a little depressed about the hobby right now. I have a two week old M3C on it's way to be repaired, I hope. I don't like RID but I own a cell phone so I'm traceable already. Some fool wants to hack into RID to harrase me, that's on him and it won't go well for him. All of this overkill regulation and convoluted process just makes me a little ill to my stomech. I truly hoped I had left that behind with retirement. It seems to be in the vogue to constipate everything.

 

[ScottTX]

I think most, (myself included) feel as you do. I flew RC for years and the burden of finding a field, joining the AMA then joining a club seems pointless, burdensome and expensive to a typical drone flyer. I agree.

That said, no one is saying we have to; now or in the future. Only those who (for whatever reason), don't want to comply with RID, will have FRIA's as an option.

The AMA safety code is a a hobbled-together patchwork of documents that has been evolving since rubber band-powered toy models took to the sky. They (AMA) never envisioned models over 55 pounds. They never envisioned turbine powered models flying in excess of 200 MPH. They never envisioned FPV and they certainly never envisioned the explosive growth of drones. Their website is full of broken links not because they are trying to make it difficult but rather out of incompetence

The AMA is stuck in the mid seventies but because they ran model aviation pretty well for over 70 years, the FAA has appointed them the first CBO and now they will struggle to catch up.

If I were solely a recreational flyer, I would simply download the FAA Document AC 91-57C and print it off. It is seven pages (six if you don't count the feedback mail in form at the back) and read it a few times and keep with me when I fly and make sure I am within those guidelines. If ever asked by an LEO or FAA official to provide what rules I am following, I would tell them that I am following the FAA's safety guidelines for recreational fliers.

A potential bright spot is that, will a CBO like the AMA, attempt to impose "guidelines" on Drone pilots that it does not on RC Planes etc.

But how are will adherence to a CBO guidelines work if there is more than one CBO?

 

[ScottTX]

Also, maybe a CBO like the AMA will not impose "burdensome" guidelines because they might want to tap into the potential revenue stream potentially associated with Drone pilots.

 

[SmilingOgre]

A potential bright spot is that, will a CBO like the AMA, attempt to impose "guidelines" on Drone pilots that it does not on RC Planes etc.

But how are will adherence to a CBO guidelines work if there is more than one CBO?

About as well as anything the government gets involved in. It's a bit like ISO. Say what you are going to do and do what you say you will with the caveat that the FAA has the athority to approve or dissaprove the plan. So you go CBO shopping once more that one exists and pick the one you think suits you best. There will not be complete uniformity.

 

[karlblessing]

Also, maybe a CBO like the AMA will not impose "burdensome" guidelines because they might want to tap into the potential revenue stream potentially associated with Drone pilots.

Didn't their guideline end up being 12 pages long just to get the CBO status? That seems pretty burdensome compared to the traditional bullet point.

 

[Ty Pilot]

I certainly don't know how all of this RID bs is going to shake out but my gut feeling, and experiences in life, tell me it might not be as bad as some think it will be.

I remember the year leading up to the turn of the century (for our young readers that would be 1999) Everywhere you turned someone was telling us how this; 'turning of the year into 2000' was gonna cause soooooooo much damage and destruction. It was foretold that the earth was about to end.

Legitimate news sources were telling people their microwaves, hair dryers, calculators ovens, all household appliances with a clock would fail. Airplanes were gonna drop out of the sky at midnight on 12/31/99 because (apparently) people who can figure out how to design 100,000 pound aircraft to fly at 600 mph across vast oceans probably didn't know how to program the onboard computers to deal with a four digit year that didn't start with 19__ what a joke!!! But "they" were sure it would happen, well nothing happened.

Anyone remember? I do, and it was ridiculous, but there was a sort of mass hysteria about nothing.

I see the same with the coming of RID. . . as if there are nar-do-wells just waiting with baited breath to download an app so they can go pick fights with people who are flying drones. . . .

I'm not so sure that an 'ability' such as having an 'app' will cause normal people to do things they normally wouldn't do.

We'll see.

 

[SmilingOgre]

Didn't their guideline end up being 12 pages long just to get the CBO status? That seems pretty burdensome compared to the traditional bullet point.

And don't forget those 12 pages are almost impossible to collect. It's already broken right from the get go.

 

[LoudThunder]

I have learned a lot there is no way at my age I am going to remember all of those terms and acronyms to be able to pass a test.

Oh come on... I'm 72 and I aced the Part 107 Exam just a month ago... Granted, I did not do it on my own, I took the Pilot Institute's part 107 Course and I studied hard, The course was enjoyable and Greg's presentations were short and to the point. It's even possible to take a short lesson while your tea steeps...

 

[karlblessing]

Oh come on... I'm 72 and I aced the Part 107 Exam just a month ago... Granted, I did not do it on my own, I took the Pilot Institute's part 107 Course and I studied hard, The course was enjoyable and Greg's presentations were short and to the point. It's even possible to take a short lesson while your tea steeps...

Plus looking at how the CBO are going to be, 107 going to be easier and consistent with lots of references available.

 

[ScottTX]

So, going back to the initial posts in this thread, next interesting thing will be to see what come out of the AMA.

 

[lookout]

I certainly don't know how all of this RID bs is going to shake out but my gut feeling, and experiences in life, tell me it might not be as bad as some think it will be.

I remember the year leading up to the turn of the century (for our young readers that would be 1999) Everywhere you turned someone was telling us how this; 'turning of the year into 2000' was gonna cause soooooooo much damage and destruction. It was foretold that the earth was about to end.

Legitimate news sources were telling people their microwaves, hair dryers, calculators ovens, all household appliances with a clock would fail. Airplanes were gonna drop out of the sky at midnight on 12/31/99 because (apparently) people who can figure out how to design 100,000 pound aircraft to fly at 600 mph across vast oceans probably didn't know how to program the onboard computers to deal with a four digit year that didn't start with 19__ what a joke!!! But "they" were sure it would happen, well nothing happened.

Anyone remember? I do, and it was ridiculous, but there was a sort of mass hysteria about nothing.

I see the same with the coming of RID. . . as if there are nar-do-wells just waiting with baited breath to download an app so they can go pick fights with people who are flying drones. . . .

I'm not so sure that an 'ability' such as having an 'app' will cause normal people to do things they normally wouldn't do.

We'll see.

There's still the 2038 problem to deal with.

Yeah and who's side is the FAA on? The quads, the AMA, some Karen, your neighbor, the LEO or just the FAA?

 

[lookout]

Also, maybe a CBO like the AMA will not impose "burdensome" guidelines because they might want to tap into the potential revenue stream potentially associated with Drone pilots.

Debatable about the revenue stream with the quad crowd.

Burdensome guidelines are if ty pilot states is true, the AMA is too far behind to have to worry about that.

 

[lookout]

I think I'm just a little depressed about the hobby right now. I have a two week old M3C on it's way to be repaired, I hope. I don't like RID but I own a cell phone so I'm traceable already. Some fool wants to hack into RID to harrase me, that's on him and it won't go well for him. All of this overkill regulation and convoluted process just makes me a little ill to my stomech. I truly hoped I had left that behind with retirement. It seems to be in the vogue to constipate everything.

A sub250g can keep you in the retirement you desire!

 

[SmilingOgre]

A sub250g can keep you in the retirement you desire!

Thanks but no thanks. I have a mini 2 and while fun on occasion it just isn't the camera I need and quite frankly it's all over the place with a little wind.

 

[SmilingOgre]

If one were to adopt the strictest interpretation of the FAA's guidelines, now that the AMA is a CBO all drone pilots would have to site the AMA guidelines until another CBO comes along. Now I don't think there is a massive sting operation with herds of drone police ready to spring into action today or tomorrow asking unsuspecting pilots for their CBO affiliation and recitation of applicable guidelines so like any other law, policy, enactment, yada yada yada it comes down to waiting to see if this whole mess has any teeth or if it is relegated to an iceberg per it's inability to chew bear hide.

 

[ScottTX]

If one were to adopt the strictest interpretation of the FAA's guidelines, now that the AMA is a CBO all drone pilots would have to site the AMA guidelines until another CBO comes along. Now I don't think there is a massive sting operation with herds of drone police ready to spring into action today or tomorrow asking unsuspecting pilots for their CBO affiliation and recitation of applicable guidelines so like any other law, policy, enactment, yada yada yada it comes down to waiting to see if this whole mess has any teeth or if it is relegated to an iceberg per it's inability to chew bear hide.

So what happens when another CBO comes along with looser requirements? We get to pick & choose?

 

[SmilingOgre]

So what happens when another CBO comes along with looser requirements? We get to pick & choose?

Exactly. If you don't like mamma's rules you go ask daddy. You go fishing for the answer you want.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

The FAA has a set of requirements for any CBO to get their approval so I really do not think you will find one that has less rules or looser requirements.

 

[LoudThunder]

Frankly, if I were still a member of an AMA club flying RC airplanes and helicopters, and my club decided to attain an FAA-Recognized Identification Area (FRIA) designation, I would not want any Goggled Drones flying in my vicinity. Those folks can only see what's in front of them, not what's to the side, above or below, and most clubs have rules about flying either a Right or Left Traffic Pattern. Which means you fly in a clockwise or counter clockwise oval. This way there are fewer chances of the aircraft running into each other…

I have never viewed a video of a goggled drone flying in such a "boring" pattern. They zoom up, down, flip, spin, stall, flip, in every which way, with the only concern being that they do not fly into an obstacle (car, people, buildings, trees, bushes, animals, etc…).

I believe that any AMA field that allows Drones will also require membership in the club. The AMA rules that govern an AMA Authorized Field require membership as it also provides the required insurance which covers personal injury and property damage (which is only valid while flying at the AMA field, not some city park…). Moreover, a good measure of the membership fee helps to pay for the club's maintenance and upkeep of the field (buildings, pavilions, restroom facilities, grounds maintenance, taxes, etc…).

My local AMA Club leases its land from the city of Newport News but they provide all the facilities and it should not be their responsibility to provide these facilities free to any passing drone pilot.

NNPRCC

www.newportnewsrc.org

So, to all the folks who think that AMA Flying Fields will welcome you with open arms might want to think again…

And here is another thought…

Think about it this way, if you drive a vehicle on any public roadway, you are required to have a driver's license… but if you drive your vehicle on private land, you are not required to have a license... That's because the rules, regulations, and laws only apply while you are on the public roads.

However, Airspace is like a public roadway controlled by the FAA and all of you have rejoiced in that fact since it keeps property owners from preventing you from flying over their property… Now, carrying this logic to the next logical step, since all that Airspace is controlled by the FAA and they keep those property owners from forbidding you from flying over their property… And since the FAA controls that Airspace, they have the authority to set the rules for the use of that Airspace and some of those rules deal with RID, UAS weight, UAS Speeds, UAS overflights (people, vehicles, etc…), how high you can fly, and so much more… Just like the States control your vehicle with: driver licenses, registration and Insurance requirements, state safety inspections, speed limits, vehicle carry weights, etc…

So, you want your cake and to eat it too; well, it ain't gonna happen…

 

[SmilingOgre]

Frankly, if I were still a member of an AMA club flying RC airplanes and helicopters, and my club decided to attain an FAA-Recognized Identification Area (FRIA) designation, I would not want any Goggled Drones flying in my vicinity. Those folks can only see what's in front of them, not what's to the side, above or below, and most clubs have rules about flying either a Right or Left Traffic Pattern. Which means you fly in a clockwise or counter clockwise oval. This way there are fewer chances of the aircraft running into each other…

I have never viewed a video of a goggled drone flying in such a "boring" pattern. They zoom up, down, flip, spin, stall, flip, in every which way, with the only concern being that they do not fly into an obstacle (car, people, buildings, trees, bushes, animals, etc…).

I believe that any AMA field that allows Drones will also require membership in the club. The AMA rules that govern an AMA Authorized Field require membership as it also provides the required insurance which covers personal injury and property damage (which is only valid while flying at the AMA field, not some city park…). Moreover, a good measure of the membership fee helps to pay for the club's maintenance and upkeep of the field (buildings, pavilions, restroom facilities, grounds maintenance, taxes, etc…).

My local AMA Club leases its land from the city of Newport News but they provide all the facilities and it should not be their responsibility to provide these facilities free to any passing drone pilot.

NNPRCC

www.newportnewsrc.org

So, to all the folks who think that AMA Flying Fields will welcome you with open arms might want to think again…

And here is another thought…

Think about it this way, if you drive a vehicle on any public roadway, you are required to have a driver's license… but if you drive your vehicle on private land, you are not required to have a license... That's because the rules, regulations, and laws only apply while you are on the public roads.

However, Airspace is like a public roadway controlled by the FAA and all of you have rejoiced in that fact since it keeps property owners from preventing you from flying over their property… Now, carrying this logic to the next logical step, since all that Airspace is controlled by the FAA and they keep those property owners from forbidding you from flying over their property… And since the FAA controls that Airspace, they have the authority to set the rules for the use of that Airspace and some of those rules deal with RID, UAS weight, UAS Speeds, UAS overflights (people, vehicles, etc…), how high you can fly, and so much more… Just like the States control your vehicle with: driver licenses, registration and Insurance requirements, state safety inspections, speed limits, vehicle carry weights, etc…

So, you want your cake and to eat it too; well, it ain't gonna happen…

Very astute comparison in many respects. Conversely, the required knowledge for driving an automobile and hurling oneself and two tons of mass at 70mph requires the intelligence of the average egg plant and the emotional stability of a rabid dog while piloting a two pound drone at 40mph requires a legal degree. I absolutely agree that no self respecting fixed wing pilot would want me and my drone around them any more than I would want them around me. I definitely perceive that as oil and water, both great by themselves. I have no idea what any of this really means as I am unable to access the full list of guidelines from the AMA at this point in time. I'm not entirely sure one exists as some excerpts I have come across appear to be insane e.g. roping of a flying area. Is this still a work in progress? I hear crickets from the FAA and AMA on that. "Whohoo! We now be a CBO! What's a CBO ana way?" I'm convinced you get my drift.

This whole thing looks like it's either half baked or a train wreck to me.

Regarding the flying experience, I also agree, I have no desire to fly in circles. I tried boating in my early 20's for a hobby and after about an hour of going in circles returned the boat. I don't want to zip around like a bat out of hell in an obstacle course either as per fpv. Not to diminish those who do, I just want to get some pictures and video from an arial perspective. It would appear that in our one size fits all world, that may not be possible without training myself to be a passenger pilot. "This is your captain speaking, we may experience turbulence as we are passing over an asphalt heated roadway of substantial size." I can't help but envision the FAA as anything but a bunch of nerds sitting around a table eating pizza with little propeller hats on, dreaming up this stuff with one suit at the head of the table with nefarious intent conducting the activity and accepting bribes from Amazon under the table. Call me cynical.

Regardless, there is nothing I can do about any of this. Maybe it's just one more thing I can tell my great grandchildren about, that people used to be able to do.