Can request permission to go over 500m agl from the FAA?

[vindibona1]

That is only for Part 107 operations and only in G airspace.
Hobby operations are 400' AGL with no allowance for a building/structure.

I hadn't heard that before Al and I did some digging and nowhere did I find anything stating that one needed a Part 107 license to fly above a structure taller than 400'. If you have that information in print somewhere I'd appreciate you posting it. I want to stay within the law, but hadn't come across that rule as I study for the upcoming 107 test. Does anyone have a link to the information requiring the Part 107 commerical license and exceeding 400'?

 

[BigAl07]

I hadn't heard that before Al and I did some digging and nowhere did I find anything stating that one needed a Part 107 license to fly above a structure taller than 400'. If you have that information in print somewhere I'd appreciate you posting it. I want to stay within the law, but hadn't come across that rule as I study for the upcoming 107 test. Does anyone have a link to the information requiring the Part 107 commerical license and exceeding 400'?

I'm an FAA Safety Team Representative & Drone Professional (Charlotte NC Region) and while I don't have it worded exactly like you're asking let me put it this way...

If they don't make a specific exception then you can't do it. With Part 107 the regs specifically state that the operator CAN fly over 400' AGL so long as they are within 400' of a structure. The Hobby aspect makes no allowances for this so it's an absolute of 400'AGL with no "allowance" for structures.

Here it is from the actual FAA website:

Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Regulations (Part 107) | Federal Aviation Administration

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) rules for small unmanned aircraft systems (UAS), or “drone,” operations cover a broad spectrum of commercial and government uses for drones weighing less than 55 pounds. Highlights of the rule, 14 CFR Part 107, follow. Operating Requirements Just as

www.faa.gov

......The maximum allowable altitude is 400 feet above the ground, higher if your drone remains within 400 feet of a structure....

 

[Meta4]

I use to able to fly to top, now it stops at 1640 feet, I am only 300 feet AGL.

Yeah I think so, it's was changed awhile back, I hoped there was a way to get around it.

Nothing has changed.
DJI consumer drones have always been limited to 500 metres (1640 ft) above the level of the launch point.

 

[vindibona1]

I'm an FAA Safety Team Representative & Drone Professional (Charlotte NC Region) and while I don't have it worded exactly like you're asking let me put it this way...
The Hobby aspect makes no allowances for this so it's an absolute of 400'AGL with no "allowance" for structures.

Here it is from the actual FAA website:

Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Regulations (Part 107) | Federal Aviation Administration

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) rules for small unmanned aircraft systems (UAS), or “drone,” operations cover a broad spectrum of commercial and government uses for drones weighing less than 55 pounds. Highlights of the rule, 14 CFR Part 107, follow. Operating Requirements Just as

www.faa.gov

With all due respect Al and acknowledgement of your status, there is nothing that I've found, including the link that you've provide that supports what you're saying if I'm interpreting your statement correctly. If I understand what you're stating is that I, as a hobbiest, under no circumstance am I allowed to fly higher than 400' AGL, right? In other words, if I, a hobbiest, am flying next to a 80 story building with each story being 10' high I can only fly up to the 40th floor? Am I interpreting your statement correctly?

I appreciate you posting the link and from what I see it says nothing about differentiating between hobbiests and those that have the Part 107 license. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty good at reading legal regulations (ask me what I've read and you'll think I'm nuts). And while often printed rules can sometimes be incomplete, in all the research I've done so far I've seen nothing to support what the hobbiest differentiation (in this regard)- including the FAA link you've posted. I'm going to post the entire section's text in small type except for the pertainent section to show that I've read the whole section and have found nothing that hints at such differentiation. I'm not saying this with any sacrasm, but truly want to know the facts. Can you please find the written regulation for me where a hobbiest cannot fly above 400' AGL when within 400 feet of a structure? If there is such a rule restricting hobbiests it is not posted anywhere I can find.


The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) rules for small unmanned aircraft (UAS) operations other than model aircraft – Part 107 of FAA regulations – cover a broad spectrum of commercial and government uses for drones weighing less than 55 pounds. Here are the highlights of the rule.

Operating Requirements
When you are manipulating the controls of a drone, always avoid manned aircraft and never operate in a careless or reckless manner. You must keep your drone within sight. Alternatively, if you use First Person View or similar technology, you must have a visual observer always keep your aircraft within unaided sight (for example, no binoculars). Neither you nor a visual observer can be responsible for more than one unmanned aircraft operation at a time.

You can fly during daylight (30 minutes before official sunrise to 30 minutes after official sunset, local time) or in twilight with appropriate anti-collision lighting. Minimum weather visibility is three miles from your control station. The maximum allowable altitude is 400 feet above the ground, higher if your drone remains within 400 feet of a structure. Maximum speed is 100 mph (87 knots). [ Please point out where it indicated that hobbiests are prohibited from flying above a hard 400' ceiling]

You currently cannot fly a small UAS over anyone not directly participating in the operation, not under a covered structure, or not inside a covered stationary vehicle. No operations from a moving vehicle are allowed unless you are flying over a sparsely populated area.

You can carry an external load if it is securely attached and does not adversely affect the flight characteristics or controllability of the aircraft. You also may transport property for compensation or hire within state boundaries provided the drone, including its attached systems, payload and cargo, weighs less than 55 pounds total and you obey the other flight rules. (Some exceptions apply to Hawaii and the District of Columbia.)

You can request a waiver of most restrictions if you can show your operation will provide a level of safety at least equivalent to the restriction from which you want the waiver.

Registration
Anyone flying under Part 107 has to register each drone they intend to operate. If your drone weighs less than 55 lbs., you can use the automated registration system.

Pilot Certification
To operate the controls of a small UAS under Part 107, you need a remote pilot certificate with a small UAS rating, or be under the direct supervision of a person who holds such a certificate

You must be at least 16 years old to qualify for a remote pilot certificate, and you can obtain it in one of two ways.

• You may pass an initial aeronautical knowledge test at an FAA-approved knowledge testing center.
• If you already have a Part 61 pilot certificate, you must have completed a flight review in the previous 24 months and you must take a small UAS online training course provided by the FAA.

If you have a Part 61 certificate, you will immediately receive a temporary remote pilot certificate when you apply for a permanent certificate. Other applicants will obtain a temporary remote pilot certificate upon successful completion of TSA security vetting. We anticipate we will be able to issue temporary certificates within 10 business days after receiving a completed application.

UAS Certification
You are responsible for ensuring a drone is safe before flying, but the FAA does not require small UAS to comply with current agency airworthiness standards or obtain aircraft certification. For example, you will have to perform a preflight inspection that includes checking the communications link between the control station and the UAS.

Other Requirements
If you are acting as pilot in command, you have to comply with several other provisions of the rule:

• You must make your drone available to the FAA for inspection or testing on request, and you must provide any associated records required to be kept under the rule.
• You must report any operation that results in serious injury, loss of consciousness, or property damage of at least $500.to the FAA within 10 days

Waivers and Airspace Authorizations
The FAA can issue waivers to certain requirements of Part 107 if an operator demonstrates they can fly safely under the waiver without endangering other aircraft or people and property on the ground or in the air. Operations in Class G airspace are allowed without air traffic control permission. Operations in Class B, C, D and E airspace need ATC approval.

In November 2017, the FAA deployed the Low Altitude Authorization and Notification Capability (LAANC – pronounced “LANCE”) for drone operators at several air traffic facilities in an evaluation to see how well the prototype system functions and to address any issues that arise during testing. A beta test expansion of the system began on April 30, 2018 to deploy LAANC incrementally at nearly 300 air traffic facilities covering approximately 500 airports. The final deployment will begin on September 13.

The FAA expects LAANC will ultimately provide near real-time processing of airspace authorization requests for drone operators nationwide. The system is designed to automatically approve most requests to operate in specific areas of airspace below designated altitudes.

 

[BigAl07]

With all due respect Al and acknowledgement of your status, there is nothing that I've found, including the link that you've provide that supports what you're saying if I'm interpreting your statement correctly. If I understand what you're stating is that I, as a hobbiest, under no circumstance am I allowed to fly higher than 400' AGL, right? In other words, if I, a hobbiest, am flying next to a 80 story building with each story being 10' high I can only fly up to the 40th floor? Am I interpreting your statement correctly?

Yes you are interpreting that correctly. 400’AGL (Above Ground Level not Structure Level) is an absolute.
You do realize the page you quoted (and I linked) was Part 107 and has nothing to do with hobbyist?

Fact Sheet – Small Unmanned Aircraft Regulations (Part 107)
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) rules for small unmanned aircraft (UAS) operations other than model aircraft – Part 107 of FAA regulations – cover a broad spectrum of commercial and government uses for drones weighing less than 55 pounds. Here are the highlights of the rule.



Recreational Rules are not listed on that page. Go to:

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

Specifically:

Fly your drone at or below 400 feet above the ground when in uncontrolled (Class G) airspace.

The maximum allowable altitude is 400 feet above the ground, higher if your drone remains within 400 feet of a structure. Maximum speed is 100 mph (87 knots). [ Please point out where it indicated that hobbiests are prohibited from flying above a hard 400' ceiling]

Without the exception noted for hobbyist 400'AGL (Above Ground Level) is an absolute. There IS an exception/allowance for Part 107 to allow for Structural Inspections etc but a hobbyist has no need for such allowance. Ground Level is Ground Level without some type of specific allowance. It's simply how aviation works.


No need to take my word for it reach out to your local FDSO and pose the same question to them or drop an email directly to:
UAS-rule.faa.gov

 

[dawgpilot]

With all due respect Al and acknowledgement of your status, there is nothing that I've found, including the link that you've provide that supports what you're saying if I'm interpreting your statement correctly. If I understand what you're stating is that I, as a hobbiest, under no circumstance am I allowed to fly higher than 400' AGL, right? In other words, if I, a hobbiest, am flying next to a 80 story building with each story being 10' high I can only fly up to the 40th floor? Am I interpreting your statement correctly?

I appreciate you posting the link and from what I see it says nothing about differentiating between hobbiests and those that have the Part 107 license. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty good at reading legal regulations (ask me what I've read and you'll think I'm nuts). And while often printed rules can sometimes be incomplete, in all the research I've done so far I've seen nothing to support what the hobbiest differentiation (in this regard)- including the FAA link you've posted. I'm going to post the entire section's text in small type except for the pertainent section to show that I've read the whole section and have found nothing that hints at such differentiation. I'm not saying this with any sacrasm, but truly want to know the facts. Can you please find the written regulation for me where a hobbiest cannot fly above 400' AGL when within 400 feet of a structure? If there is such a rule restricting hobbiests it is not posted anywhere I can find.


The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) rules for small unmanned aircraft (UAS) operations other than model aircraft – Part 107 of FAA regulations – cover a broad spectrum of commercial and government uses for drones weighing less than 55 pounds. Here are the highlights of the rule.

Operating Requirements
When you are manipulating the controls of a drone, always avoid manned aircraft and never operate in a careless or reckless manner. You must keep your drone within sight. Alternatively, if you use First Person View or similar technology, you must have a visual observer always keep your aircraft within unaided sight (for example, no binoculars). Neither you nor a visual observer can be responsible for more than one unmanned aircraft operation at a time.

You can fly during daylight (30 minutes before official sunrise to 30 minutes after official sunset, local time) or in twilight with appropriate anti-collision lighting. Minimum weather visibility is three miles from your control station. The maximum allowable altitude is 400 feet above the ground, higher if your drone remains within 400 feet of a structure. Maximum speed is 100 mph (87 knots). [ Please point out where it indicated that hobbiests are prohibited from flying above a hard 400' ceiling]

You currently cannot fly a small UAS over anyone not directly participating in the operation, not under a covered structure, or not inside a covered stationary vehicle. No operations from a moving vehicle are allowed unless you are flying over a sparsely populated area.

You can carry an external load if it is securely attached and does not adversely affect the flight characteristics or controllability of the aircraft. You also may transport property for compensation or hire within state boundaries provided the drone, including its attached systems, payload and cargo, weighs less than 55 pounds total and you obey the other flight rules. (Some exceptions apply to Hawaii and the District of Columbia.)

You can request a waiver of most restrictions if you can show your operation will provide a level of safety at least equivalent to the restriction from which you want the waiver.

Registration
Anyone flying under Part 107 has to register each drone they intend to operate. If your drone weighs less than 55 lbs., you can use the automated registration system.

Pilot Certification
To operate the controls of a small UAS under Part 107, you need a remote pilot certificate with a small UAS rating, or be under the direct supervision of a person who holds such a certificate

You must be at least 16 years old to qualify for a remote pilot certificate, and you can obtain it in one of two ways.

• You may pass an initial aeronautical knowledge test at an FAA-approved knowledge testing center.
• If you already have a Part 61 pilot certificate, you must have completed a flight review in the previous 24 months and you must take a small UAS online training course provided by the FAA.

If you have a Part 61 certificate, you will immediately receive a temporary remote pilot certificate when you apply for a permanent certificate. Other applicants will obtain a temporary remote pilot certificate upon successful completion of TSA security vetting. We anticipate we will be able to issue temporary certificates within 10 business days after receiving a completed application.

UAS Certification
You are responsible for ensuring a drone is safe before flying, but the FAA does not require small UAS to comply with current agency airworthiness standards or obtain aircraft certification. For example, you will have to perform a preflight inspection that includes checking the communications link between the control station and the UAS.

Other Requirements
If you are acting as pilot in command, you have to comply with several other provisions of the rule:

• You must make your drone available to the FAA for inspection or testing on request, and you must provide any associated records required to be kept under the rule.
• You must report any operation that results in serious injury, loss of consciousness, or property damage of at least $500.to the FAA within 10 days

Waivers and Airspace Authorizations
The FAA can issue waivers to certain requirements of Part 107 if an operator demonstrates they can fly safely under the waiver without endangering other aircraft or people and property on the ground or in the air. Operations in Class G airspace are allowed without air traffic control permission. Operations in Class B, C, D and E airspace need ATC approval.

In November 2017, the FAA deployed the Low Altitude Authorization and Notification Capability (LAANC – pronounced “LANCE”) for drone operators at several air traffic facilities in an evaluation to see how well the prototype system functions and to address any issues that arise during testing. A beta test expansion of the system began on April 30, 2018 to deploy LAANC incrementally at nearly 300 air traffic facilities covering approximately 500 airports. The final deployment will begin on September 13.

The FAA expects LAANC will ultimately provide near real-time processing of airspace authorization requests for drone operators nationwide. The system is designed to automatically approve most requests to operate in specific areas of airspace below designated altitudes.

Your confusion comes from the fact that the language you cited above is from Part 107 itself, and thus does not apply to recreational pilots.

The recreational rules are in a different part of the federal regulations: 49 USC 44809. Part (a)(6) strictly limits recreational pilots to 400 feet AGL, with no further provision allowing flying higher near structures.

 

[Verdrone]

Nothing has changed.
DJI consumer drones have always been limited to 500 metres (1640 ft) above the level of the launch point.

 

[Deleted member 114292]

I actually I don't even want to I'm just trying to fly the profile of a mountain

Yes you can request it.

 

[BigAl07]

Clarification needed and check for understanding: It is my understanding, and I want you to correct me if I am wrong, one can fly 400' above the structure level, assuming a building of sorts, if you are within 400' of that structure, no? If so, how would a mountain differ?

Also it's important to note that a "Mountain" is not a structure so it's a moot point in the debate of "over a structure".

 

[Zbip57]

The original post asked, even if he stays within 400' AGL all the way up the mountain side, he is still limited by DJI's 500m maximum ceiling. He's asking if there is any way to overcome that limit. The answer is no. That one has nothing to do with the FAA. It's a DJI limit, hardcoded into their firmware.

You could takeoff from the top of the mountain and descend to the valley floor and climb back up again even if that exceeds -500m, since there is no limit to how far you can descend. The takeoff location is recorded as 0' at the Home Position. But the DJI drone will not climb any higher than +500m above the recorded Home Position.

Just to muddy the waters a bit more...

Transport Canada went a different route. We no longer have any distinction between Recreational flying or Commercial. Here in Canada we have the same 400' AGL height limit, But instead of an extra 400' height within a 400' radius, we're only allowed to clear tall buildings by an extra 100' within a 200' radius of the building. [ CARS 901.25 ]

 

[Zbip57]

Also it's important to note that a "Mountain" is not a structure so it's a moot point in the debate of "over a structure".

Manned aircraft are required to keep a "safe" distance from mountains and structures, i.e. a 500' margin. If manned aircraft stay above 500' AGL and unmanned aircraft stay below 400' AGL, that separation is supposed to ensure mutual safety.

The same applies around structures and mountains. If manned aircraft stay 500' above and away from structures, then it's "safe" for unmanned aircraft to operate to operate above and within 400' of structures.

I know that provision was initially put in place specifically by the FAA as an allowance for commercial inspections of antenna masts that extend higher than 400' AGL.

But why should it make any difference at all if that unmanned aircraft is being operated commercially or recreationally? Either way, within or 400' above any such obstacle, be it a structure or mountain, is considered "safe" space to operate within.

 

[vindibona1]

Your confusion comes from the fact that the language you cited above is from Part 107 itself, and thus does not apply to recreational pilots.

The recreational rules are in a different part of the federal regulations: 49 USC 44809. Part (a)(6) strictly limits recreational pilots to 400 feet AGL, with no further provision allowing flying higher near structures.

Thanks for posting the link. I read it thoroughly and the text of the US code, while citing the 400' AGL rule itself does not differentiate between recreational and professional pilots. What's more, is that 49 U.S. Code § 44809 a) 7 itself has confusing language. Is says " (a)In General.—Except as provided in subsection (e), and notwithstanding chapter 447 of title 49, United States Code, a person may operate a small unmanned aircraft without specific certification or operating authority from the Federal Aviation Administration if the operation adheres to all of the following limitations"... then addresses the following as a "limitation"... "
(7) The operator has passed an aeronautical knowledge and safety test described in subsection (g) and maintains proof of test passage to be made available to the Administrator or law enforcement upon request."

I can see how USC 44809 addresses recreational pilots, but you would think that the FAA would have that specific language differentiating classes of pilots in their published rules so it is clear without having to dig for the regulation. In every single reference article I've read is states "The maximum allowable altitude is 400 feet above the ground, higher if your drone remains within 400 feet of a structure". It should have read " The maximum allowable altitude is 400 feet above the ground, however pilots with a Part 107 knowledge license/certification may fly higher if the drone remains within 400 feet of a structure". In a past life I worked in the air freight industry for 10 years and had to read a lot of regulations, so I know how to read and interpret. While I no longer doubt the accuracy of the information Big Al has provided, I can tell you definitively that I am sure that this particular rule is broken regularly because it is hidden; hidden so well that no other source has picked up on the differentiation either.

I'd like to cite one source (Pilot Institute) that itself has somewhat contradictory information. Pilot Institute 400' rule discussion The omission of citing the exception to the 400' rule limiting it to Part 107 certified pilots. However, what is more confusing is that below it states that authorization is required to fly abover 400', but again the omission is failing to differentiate between the exception near a structure and flying above 400' in open space.

And citing the Cornell Law School, FAA Part 107 14/107.12 "

§ 107.12 Requirement for a remote pilot certificate with a small UAS rating.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may manipulate the flight controls of a small unmanned aircraft system unless:
(1) That person has a remote pilot certificate with a small UAS rating issued pursuant to subpart C of this part and satisfies the requirements of § 107.65; or
(2) That person is under the direct supervision of a remote pilot in command and the remote pilot in command has the ability to immediately take direct control of the flight of the small unmanned aircraft.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may act as a remote pilot in command unless that person has a remote pilot certificate with a small UAS rating issued pursuant to Subpart C of this part and satisfies the requirements of § 107.65.
(c) The Administrator may, consistent with international standards, authorize an airman to operate a civil foreign-registered small unmanned aircraft without an FAA-issued remote pilot certificate with a small UAS rating."

And while I only play a lawyer on TV, I've taken enough business law to read and interpret what I see. And 90%+ of those writing regulations are actually lawyers and should know how to construct laws and regulations to avoid misinterpretations.

Personally speaking, as a new(ish) pilot I have no desire at this point to fly above 400', at least until I get confidence in my skill and confidence enough to trust the technology. I still get a little nervous when, though in techincal LOS my drone goes out far enough that it would be impossible to see if it were not for the strobes that I have attached to it. But I think it is important to have clarity on the rule... something that based on general publications is as clear as mud. IMO they should be much easier to find and much better defined for new pilots coming into the hobby so they understand the rules right away, without having to dig, often getting misleading information, or having lengthy discussions on the MavicPilots forum.

 

[BigAl07]

Manned aircraft are required to keep a "safe" distance from mountains and structures, i.e. a 500' margin. If manned aircraft stay above 500' AGL and unmanned aircraft stay below 400' AGL, that separation is supposed to ensure mutual safety.

The same applies around structures and mountains. If manned aircraft stay 500' above and away from structures, then it's "safe" for unmanned aircraft to operate to operate above and within 400' of structures.

I know that provision was initially put in place specifically by the FAA as an allowance for commercial inspections of antenna masts that extend higher than 400' AGL.

But why should it make any difference at all if that unmanned aircraft is being operated commercially or recreationally? Either way, within or 400' above any such obstacle, be it a structure or mountain, is considered "safe" space to operate within.

There is no need for a Hobby operation to fly 400' above a structure for "Inspection" etc. It's an allowance that only Commercial Operations need. Yes it should be safe if within 400' of the structure it's not legal unless you're operating in a specific area and under Part 107.

 

[Zbip57]

I think it is important to have clarity on the rule... something that based on general publications is as clear as mud. IMO they should be much easier to find and much better defined for new pilots coming into the hobby so they understand the rules right away, without having to dig, often getting misleading information, or having lengthy discussions on the MavicPilots forum.

That is so true.

Only people with something to lose, a profitable business, personal assets exposed to liability, etc. are going to bother to wade through all that confusing mumble-jumble, "as provided in...", "notwithstanding chapter...", "except as provided in..." The manner in which the FAA publishes their regulations is so obscure and obfuscated it practically guarantees that only a tiny percentage of the population will ever read them, let alone understand what any of it means.

At least the majority of people contributing to this forum make a reasonable effort to cite credible sources and post sensible opinions. I sometimes stray onto the DJI Forum and am dismayed at how many people there fail to use simple searches, or even bother to read previous posts within the same thread, before posting their own obviously nonsensical garbage as fact, quoting something overheard from their sister's aunt's hairdresser's postman as indisputable fact.

 

[dawgpilot]

Thanks for posting the link. I read it thoroughly and the text of the US code, while citing the 400' AGL rule itself does not differentiate between recreational and professional pilots. What's more, is that 49 U.S. Code § 44809 a) 7 itself has confusing language. Is says " (a)In General.—Except as provided in subsection (e), and notwithstanding chapter 447 of title 49, United States Code, a person may operate a small unmanned aircraft without specific certification or operating authority from the Federal Aviation Administration if the operation adheres to all of the following limitations"... then addresses the following as a "limitation"... "
(7) The operator has passed an aeronautical knowledge and safety test described in subsection (g) and maintains proof of test passage to be made available to the Administrator or law enforcement upon request."

The FAA is currently "waiving" enforcement of that section of the rule, since they are still working on developing the recreational test.

 

[Zbip57]

There is no need for a Hobby operation to fly 400' above a structure for "Inspection" etc. It's an allowance that only Commercial Operations need. Yes it should be safe if within 400' of the structure it's not legal unless you're operating in a specific area and under Part 107.

In the USA, a recreational flyer is not permitted to do any "inspection" for commercial purposes, regardless of height, without special Part 107 blessings from the FAA.

But there are many scenarios in which a recreational hobby flyer might fly above and around a "structure" for cinematic reasons. Take for example a castle perched on a steep-sided 400' rock.

Does the FAA's 400' AGL restriction measure from the valley floor, or measure from the foot of the castle's foundations where it sprouts from the rockface of the hill, or does the 400' restriction apply measured from the peak of the castle's roof for Part 107 holders only?

Here in Canada everyone would be allowed to fly a drone 100' above the top of the castle, as long as they remain within a 200' radius of the castle, regardless of how high the rock is on which the castle sits. [ CARS 901.25 ]

 

[BigAl07]

But there are many scenarios in which a recreational hobby flyer might fly above and around a "structure" for cinematic reasons. Take for example a castle perched on a steep-sided 400' rock.

Does the FAA's 400' AGL restriction measure from the valley floor, or measure from the foot of the castle's foundations where it sprouts from the rockface of the hill, or does the 400' restriction apply measured from the peak of the castle's roof for Part 107 holders only?

Here in Canada everyone would be allowed to fly a drone 100' above the top of the castle, as long as they remain within a 200' radius of the castle, regardless of how high the rock is on which the castle sits. [ CARS 901.25 ]

It's measured from Terra Firma directly under the aircraft. Imagine a 400' rope suspended from the bottom of the aircraft. If at any time that rope isn't touching the ground the aircraft is higher than 400'AGL and in violation. For Hobby you can't use the height of the structure to increase the AGL limit. If it's a 500' high building the UAS can't fly up to the top and over because at 401' they are now in violation.

So if you're flying at 100'AGL and fly out over a valley that is 500' below the aircraft would suddenly be 600'AGL. Ground Level (at least in the USA) is the ground under the UAS directly.

 

[vindibona1]

The FAA is currently "waiving" enforcement of that section of the rule, since they are still working on developing the recreational test.

I hope to circumvent any new recreational rule as I hope to take the Part 107 test in the next month or so. For me the biggest sticking poing are the sectional maps. Those things are like the proverbial 10 pounds of stuffing in a 5 pound bag. I haven't dived into weather charts yet so I have no idea what to expect. As far as the rules go, I think I'm pretty good, getting better clarity from discussions like this one.

I hope the "new rules" that the FAA comes out with have more clarity than the current ones. BTW... I was dismayed to hear about the drone flying over the ball game a couple days ago. Morons like that are going to wreck it for the rest of us. THAT rule about flying over stadiums with events happening is crystal clear.

 

[Zbip57]

It's measured from Terra Firma directly under the aircraft. Imagine a 400' rope suspended from the bottom of the aircraft. If at any time that rope isn't touching the ground the aircraft is higher than 400'AGL and in violation. For Hobby you can't use the height of the structure to increase the AGL limit. If it's a 500' high building the UAS can't fly up to the top and over because at 401' they are now in violation.

So if you're flying at 100'AGL and fly out over a valley that is 500' below the aircraft would suddenly be 600'AGL. Ground Level (at least in the USA) is the ground under the UAS directly.

That's an interesting interpretation. But it seems overly restrictive and unreasonable.

"Above Ground Level" does imply vertically above. So if you were flying up a sloping hillside you would not be permitted to fly higher than 400' vertically above the slope, like this.




That means if the hillside or structure is sloped at 89.9°, in order to fly from below to the top of the hill a recreational flyer would be required to pilot his drone within this very narrow sliver to remain legal. That seems absurdly dangerous.




And if the slope is vertical, you're saying it would be illegal to fly off the edge from the top, or higher than 400' up the cliff face from the bottom?




Only Part 107 holders are allowed to make use of this safer airspace?



Isn't the whole point of this to prevent conflict between manned and unmanned aircraft? Are manned aircraft typically brushing their wingtips within 400' of vertical structures and terrain? If so, the danger created by those manned aircraft is certainly more significant than any possible threat posed by drones.

 

[BigAl07]

That's an interesting interpretation. But it seems overly restrictive and unreasonable.

"Above Ground Level" does imply vertically above. So if you were flying up a sloping hillside you would not be permitted to fly higher than 400' vertically above the slope, like this.

View attachment 109821


That means if the hillside or structure is sloped at 89.9°, in order to fly from below to the top of the hill a recreational flyer would be required to pilot his drone within this very narrow sliver to remain legal. That seems absurdly dangerous.

View attachment 109822


And if the slope is vertical, you're saying it would be illegal to fly off the edge from the top, or higher than 400' up the cliff face from the bottom?

View attachment 109823


Only Part 107 holders are allowed to make use of this safer airspace?

View attachment 109824

Isn't the whole point of this to prevent conflict between manned and unmanned aircraft? Are manned aircraft typically brushing their wingtips within 400' of vertical structures and terrain? If so, the danger created by those manned aircraft is certainly more significant than any possible threat posed by drones.

Why are you so stuck on the exact 400'AGL? To go up the mountainside you have Up To 400' to work with. From 0'AGL to 400'AGL you just have to stay under 400'AGL.