Does Mavic Shoot Video or Watercolor Paintings? Don’t settle. Get Involved!

[RitterRunkel]

Tried again today. Went from PAL - NTSC - PAL and everything is great. Hard to say if this works or it was just a fluke because i dont always get the dreaded water colour issue so cant be sure if doing this made it great or it would already have been great regardless, but i'll be doing this from now on anyways to be safe. I did have it at +1 sharpen though and its actually too sharp haha, but its better than that NR nonsense. I'll switch back to 0-0-0 and try a few more. I seem to spend more time "testing" than actually enjoying the little thing

This is exactly what I'm doing and thinking. Need more testing, but to be safe for the moment and get some nice results without doing tests only ...

Sometimes during changing between cinelike, dlog and none from 0 0 0 to other values like -1-1-1 and -3-2-1 or others and back again, sometimes if it is displayed at 0 and I want set it to -1 at one click it jumps to -2. I wonder if it displays different value than it actually shows, I mean different between cinelike, dlog and none. This did happen to me at least three times today. Just stating it if someone else connects the dots.

Interesting. I do have similar problems. And very often I'm not able to increase sharpening from 0 to +1 ... Then I have to decrease (jumping to -2) and then increase again ...

 

[Strafe1]

View attachment 6611
If you saw the comparison after switching ( HARD reset as per DJI) I bet you would change your tune ! It’s a simple flaw that DJI can fix It’s TOO MUCH NR being added to the video profile!!!!!!!! This has nothing to do with the price of the camera as the footage thats shown above and all of my footage and HUNDREDS of others should look a lot better. You can be satisfied with just ok or give a rats b-hind but some of us strive for perfection as I personally can say this kind of GARBAGE that is coming out of these cameras is not what DJI has for examples online or shows us to persuade us to buy their stuff ! COME on GUYS if no one spoke up just think what it would be like. Noting wrong with perfection and voicing an educated thought or advice…..

just look at the difference before and after switching (hard reset from NTSC TO PAL) problem is you have to keep doing the hard reset each time you fly and shut off the camera it will not keep the setting! View attachment 6610View attachment 6610

You are not reading my post correctly. I see the issue you are having. Not everyone has that issue. I don't have that issue. Maybe it is too much NR. In your drone, not mine. That tells me something is DEFECTIVE or not working properly on your drone and those that produce images like this. You are responding like this is EVERYBODYS problem. All I said is that if yours isn't working as it should, send it back for replacement! I am not disagreeing with you about the severity of some of the problems as posted on this thread. The D-Log profile had to be changed in the latest Mavic firmware, it wasn't a software fix. Perhaps the NR issue you have is a defective hardware issue that needs to be replaced by DJI.

 

[photoboy]

Here is my example. Shows both Water paint effect and the focus issues i have with videos.. notice at 8 second mark in the video, camera tries to focus, gets sharp focus for like half a second and then loses it...
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4883446/focus_problem.mp4

Don’t hate me but it starts out with the water color issue(look at the palms) it just the camera is focusing I have noticed in brightly lit video that water color isn’t as prominent but is still there as that makes sence as the NR isn’t kicking in as much …Im guessing???….

 

[photoboy]

You are not reading my post correctly. I see the issue you are having. Not everyone has that issue. I don't have that issue. Maybe it is too much NR. In your drone, not mine. That tells me something is DEFECTIVE or not working properly on your drone and those that produce images like this. You are responding like this is EVERYBODYS problem. All I said is that if yours isn't working as it should, send it back for replacement! I am not disagreeing with you about the severity of some of the problems as posted on this thread. The D-Log profile had to be changed in the latest Mavic firmware, it wasn't a software fix. Perhaps the NR issue you have is a defective hardware issue that needs to be replaced by DJI.

Yes, I read your post all the way. You said most of us are expecting too much from the camera as your happy with what it produces and that makes it OK (4U) … and that I should send mine in for a replacement and not all have this issue. Simple fact is you send in your mavic and they send you back a mavic thats so called fix but has other issues like out of focus corners the list goes on. Im well aware of the limit of this camera and Im also well aware of the possibility this camera can produce via 4k sharp video. I also know the camera I have now is and can produce what the camera is supposed to! Its how I have to trick the camera to do what its supposed to do to give the clear sharp water color free image and video that I was lead to believe buy DJI as the ads they have showing the Super rich and fine detail video footage. You can agree or disagree but I will not set and be quite and just settle for something that don’t work at 100% like it should ! ….

 

[alirz]

Don’t hate me but it starts out with the water color issue(look at the palms) it just the camera is focusing I have noticed in brightly lit video that water color isn’t as prominent but is still there as that makes sence as the NR isn’t kicking in as much …Im guessing???….

Oh I know. The picture was to show the water color affect, That is my other issue.. If you look at the video link in my post you will see the focus issue that im taking about.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4883446/focus_problem.mp4 (about 8 seconds into the video)

 

[photoboy]

Oh I know. The picture was to show the water color affect, That is my other issue.. If you look at the video link in my post you will see the focus issue that im taking about.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4883446/focus_problem.mp4 (about 8 seconds into the video)

Yeah thats what Im talking about as I did a screen grab as the water color issue is through out the video and the focus jumps in and out at the end….

 

[photoboy]

The other way to tell is look at shingles on roof tops very noticeable should be able to see the lines ..

 

[alirz]

The other way to tell is look at shingles on roof tops very noticeable should be able to see the lines ..

Yup. Really wish this could have been fixed via a firmware. DJI has not come forth saying if this focus issue and the water effect issue are software of hardware issues.
Im currently in the process of returning my Mavic to DJI. Wish it hadnt come to that because i love it otherwise...

 

[Strafe1]

Yes, I read your post all the way. You said most of us are expecting too much from the camera as your happy with what it produces and that makes it OK (4U) … and that I should send mine in for a replacement and not all have this issue. Simple fact is you send in your mavic and they send you back a mavic thats so called fix but has other issues like out of focus corners the list goes on. Im well aware of the limit of this camera and Im also well aware of the possibility this camera can produce via 4k sharp video. I also know the camera I have now is and can produce what the camera is supposed to! Its how I have to trick the camera to do what its supposed to do to give the clear sharp water color free image and video that I was lead to believe buy DJI as the ads they have showing the Super rich and fine detail video footage. You can agree or disagree but I will not set and be quite and just settle for something that don’t work at 100% like it should ! ….

I am sorry you are not understanding. I never said anything about expecting too much from the camera. And I never said the defects were OK. I did say I was happy with mine. Don't misquote me, please. I am just saying that if your unit is defective, send it back. If you are afraid of getting a lemon back, then that is a legitimate concern for not wanting to do so. I also understand how you have to trick the camera to make it work, when you shouldn't have to do that. So don't settle and do what you need to do.....get a replacement. You said you wanted DJI to know about this problem and fix it. Well, making them fix or replace your unit would speak volumes!
On a side note, I just finished watching the PGA golf tournament from Riviera. You know what I noticed in the blimp video footage? Watercolor effect in the trees and some bushes! I didn't consciously look for it. Maybe I've been reading this thread too long!

 

[Strafe1]

Yup. Really wish this could have been fixed via a firmware. DJI has not come forth saying if this focus issue and the water effect issue are software of hardware issues.
Im currently in the process of returning my Mavic to DJI. Wish it hadnt come to that because i love it otherwise...

The main issue I see with this video is the focus problem. The screen grab @photoboy demonstrated was of an out of focus segment and is inaccurate for demonstrating anything other than focus. When your camera was IN focus, I didn't notice a dramatic watercolor effect, just slight, unless those are actually tiled roofs. They aren't designed like tile roofs I'm used to seeing. They look like tropical hut style roofs. I may be late to the party since you have already sent your Mavic back, so I'll assume it's not a tap to focus problem, or continuous auto focus issue?

 

[Strafe1]

The other way to tell is look at shingles on roof tops very noticeable should be able to see the lines ..

I don't think there are any shingles on any of the roofs....

 

[frikovc]

Yesterday I did a series of video tests and I believe I narrowed it down this issue to combination of:

• flat scene that is not contrasty enough, shoot at lower light or if shot in good light but with negative sharpness and contrast applied as the edge detection algorithm used by compression algorithm doesn't pickup details in the image at the time of saving it resulting in averaging colors in an area aka mudding the image.
• compression of video that actually destroys details that are hiding in flat image

If there is enough sharpness/contrast before video is saved then this watereffect issue is 95% gone, but this means less room for post production.

It doesn't matter which style is used none/d-cinelike/d-log they both have their own internal sharpness/contrast built in, together with user sharpness/contrast adjustments they all display same issue because too flat video is coming out in combination with compression when saving.

In good light d-log -1-1-1 will result in muddy image. Setting it to 0 0 0 will result in ok image for good light. After sunset in dusk same d-log 0 0 0 will result in muddy image but if increased to 1 0 0 it will be again normal just little more grainy because of sharpening (same ISO as before). So same settings should not be used for all scenes.
My long term (next 4 days) testing will include:

• low light, very cloudy, late in the afternoon, or very flat image - dlog 1 0 0
• good light, with sun hitting the scene - dlog 0 0 0

Other styles dcinelike/none also work but with different settings. I found that none 0 -2 -2 is also nice but will have to test it more to see how it behaves in different scenes.

DJI can add options:

• disable NR - this will result in grainy parts in video (much better that than watereffect)
• compression setting (low, medium, hight) that will less likely muddy video - this can be tricky to implement as this would make files bigger in size and it has to do with hardware specs, especially if this is burnt onto chip or there is a bottleneck when saving the image and they need to make so strict compression

 

[jjmucker]

Did a few tests today. ( again )
I let the camera record whilst doing this, 4K, 24fps PAL. Had it on D-Log, 0-0-0 all round.
Footage looked great, went into and changed it to -1 sharpen, and the very moment i did that, NR kicked in and went horrible, and not horrible as in, oh its taken the sharpen down to -1, horrible as in, the dreaded water color effect - too much NR! Thats the first time ive seen it actually do it in real time.
And no post processing with your favourite editor will bring back that detail, ever.

The reason i know thats not what -1 should look like is because ive had it at -1 before and it looked nothing like that. When it works as it should, -1 should give you enough detail to bring back in post.

I then put it back to 0 sharpen but no effect, the NR cannot be removed.
A quick PAL-NTSC-PAL reset sorted it out.

I think we can all agree its a NR software problem. I dont claim to be an expert but you'd think a simple firmware update to have the end user disbale NR from within the app.
I dont think thats the only thing that triggers it though, i guess thats for dji to find out ( if they do )

Dropbox - NR.mp4

 

[Owen Manderfield]

Did a few tests today.
Footage looked great, went into and changed it to -1 sharpen, and the very moment i did that, NR kicked in and went horrible
I then put it back to 0 sharpen but no effect, the NR cannot be removed.
A quick PAL-NTSC-PAL reset sorted it out.

That's a very useful bit of research.

So, once something triggers the NR (or whatever it is) processing - (in this case turning the sharpening down) - it gets stuck on and no amount of setting changes get it to turn off again, until a hard reset vie the PAL/NTSC switch.

That seems consistent with what we are seeing. After all the first thing we all did was try and stop the default over sharpening.

 

[jjmucker]

Seems to be mate. I'll be leaving mine at 0 0 0 as its more than acceptable and i'll always do a pal - ntsc - pal reset on every flight

 

[MavicPro83]

I was experiencing the water color effect after following this post I opted to switch to Pal 25 fps with sharpening +1 and the results were tangibly better right away. I don't really see the logic in going back to NTSC as it makes no obvious difference in FCP so have stuck with it.

Might drop,to 0 sharpening to see if it still looks as good as I did notice in low light (cloudy) it was a bit grainy in the shadows but I suspect that is a hardware limitation. Overall happy to have found an option that works.

On the whole the camera on the MP seems to be inferior to my P3P but honestly i expect that with the size of the unit.


Sent from my iPad using MavicPilots

 

[jjmucker]

I think PAL and NTSC are the same , in the sense of image quality. The reason you got better results with PAL is because you switched ( either way ) and that solves the NR problem until a time as which we don't really know. Most likely a reset.

 

[RitterRunkel]

As sad it is that we have to deal with this as nice is it to have people looking for the best way through. =)

Post #512 describes pretty well how denoising, flat profiles and compression might affect each other in a bad way. While I agree in principal and accept non-perfect images because of that: looking at some watercolored results, there is no way that a better image out of 60kbps would not have been possible ... I think this is only to a minor extent related to the encoding; the codec should have had plenty of bits left in those soft images.

Post #513 shows how to maintain details nevertheless with the current workaround. Thanks for confirming, since I don't have the time currently to test myself.

 

[AyeYo]

I finally decided to send mine in for gimbal issues and the warm spot. Now I just have to pray hard to not get one back with this issue instead.

 

[alirz]

On the whole the camera on the MP seems to be inferior to my P3P but honestly i expect that with the size of the unit.

Sent from my iPad using MavicPilots

Not necessarily true. Digital camera sensors have usually shrunk over the past years as technology progresses. So a smaller sensor on the Mavic should not imply that it WILL HAVE lower quality than the P3 or P4 etc. This is some sort of bug or bad software/firware glitch that DJI should accept and try to come up with a fix.