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Fly over closed roads and police presence

john94si

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we can legally fly over say closed roads where the police have blocked off traffic. For crime scenes or whatever. We see news choppers do it. Why can't we?

In Florida if that matters..could share the video with news outlets right without a license.
 
I would highly recommend you not do this without a really good reason. Can I imagine filming police during some sort of protest situation...Yes, but I would hate to see the pilot end up making the news because they crashed into a crowd, or because they ended up disturbing a crime scene in some way or other. Finally, in an active crime scene you flying above might give away location and other information endangering law enforcement. I would also strongly suggest you get your part 107 license if you plan on using your footage for media purposes. I can see a situation where right or not, the FAA is called in to deal with you because someone higher up doesn't like what you are doing. In the least they can make your life really miserable.

Another thing to consider. The news pilots are in constant contact with a tower and other flight path planners. In situations like high speed chases the news copters are in contact with the police so that everyone knows where everyone else is and is going. This prevents them from crashing into each other. You likely won't have the benefit of that contact and information.

Hope this helps.

DB
 
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we can legally fly over say closed roads where the police have blocked off traffic. For crime scenes or whatever. We see news choppers do it. Why can't we?

In Florida if that matters..could share the video with news outlets right without a license.

If you're not a professional (FAA Part 107 licensed), and not there at the invitation of police to assist, I suggest don't do it. It could be construed as "interfering" with police operations.
 
Don't do it , no different than flying taking video of forest fires..remember that insidence..you will be thrown in jail if caught or fined heavily not to mention the safety issue with aircraft's in the area...should be common sense sorry ...

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In California they have passed a law that makes emergency response areas such as fires, accidents, and crime scenes a NFZ, and they can down your drone.
Ya beat me to it, F6Rider. I was just going to mention this.

Personally, I'd stay away. I wouldn't want to give law enforcement any concern that I might be creating problems for them.
 
In California they have passed a law that makes emergency response areas such as fires, accidents, and crime scenes a NFZ, and they can down your drone.
How can I find out more information about this?
 
we can legally fly over say closed roads where the police have blocked off traffic. For crime scenes or whatever. We see news choppers do it. Why can't we?

In Florida if that matters..could share the video with news outlets right without a license.


Since you said you're in Florida, you may want to research Florida statute 934.50. It became effective last June. It prohibits the use of "drones" to capture images of private property without prior written consent. It's probably highly unconstitutional, but since it doesn't offer any state-issued fines or penalties (it only provides legal remedy to victims through civil action) you can't challenge it directly.

I recently filmed a crime scene in my neighborhood. It was an aerial shot of a house that had crime tape around the perimeter, and about a dozen cops and csi vans. I posted a screen grab on our neighborhood forum - prompted by other neighbors asking what we going on.

I unintentionally ran afoul of that new law. I didn't know about it until a neighbor linked to it. I promptly removed the photo. No telling how a grieving family member might lash out.
 
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Thanks for posting that link. A very interesting read, indeed. Looks like it's rife with abuse potential. What is 'interfering' with emergency personell? Seems like that's a very subjective term. Is being 200' away and across the street 'interfering'? Surely everyone here has seen the video of firefighters who stop fighting a house fire, turn their hose, and shoot a drone that is at least 100' above and away from the house. Point is, this law appears to be a blank check for anyone with a uniform who doesn't want to be filmed in the performance of their duties (which SCOTUS has affirmed is the public right under the 1st Amendment). One doesn't have to look too far on the interwebs to find an unlimited number of examples of 'emergency responders' who violate the rights of civilian camera operators (ground-level) who are doing nothing than filming from a safe distance.
 
"Never fly over stadium, sports events or groups of people" & " Keep away from emergency responders" both quoted from FAA small UAS Certificate of Registration.
 
Common sense would say not to interfere with any ongoing investigation or emergency event. We are not channel 9 news here...
 
Since you said you're in Florida, you may want to research Florida statute 934.50. It became effective last June. It prohibits the use of "drones" to capture images of private property without prior written consent. It's probably highly unconstitutional, but since it doesn't offer any state-issued fines or penalties (it only provides legal remedy to victims through civil action) you can't challenge it directly.

I recently filmed a crime scene in my neighborhood. It was an aerial shot of a house that had crime tape around the perimeter, and about a dozen cops and csi vans. I posted a screen grab on our neighborhood forum - prompted by other neighbors asking what we going on.

I unintentionally ran afoul of that new law. I didn't know about it until a neighbor linked to it. I promptly removed the photo. No telling how a grieving family member might lash out.

If you read that statute it applies to search and seizure laws and law enforcement, not civilians. As for flying over crime scenes, just don't, or any emergency situation. There is a lot of parts even the news leaves out of their filming. They have a building full of attorneys letting them know what to do. Plus they have a direct communication should rescue aircraft enter the airspace. I'm only assuming the original poster does not have a building of attorneys since he/she asked the question. Let's step forward with our drone flights to get good drone laws, not give a reason to get more restrictions enacted.
 
If you read that statute it applies to search and seizure laws and law enforcement, not civilians. As for flying over crime scenes, just don't, or any emergency situation. There is a lot of parts even the news leaves out of their filming. They have a building full of attorneys letting them know what to do. Plus they have a direct communication should rescue aircraft enter the airspace. I'm only assuming the original poster does not have a building of attorneys since he/she asked the question. Let's step forward with our drone flights to get good drone laws, not give a reason to get more restrictions enacted.

Read it again. Until June of last year, it was explicitly to tie the hands of government to prevent illegal searches. But, since then, the statute has been amended to protect citizens from ANY drone operators (there are exceptions for surveying, utility work, etc).

Specifically, 3(b) (emphasis added by me):

(3) PROHIBITED USE OF DRONES.—
(a) A law enforcement agency may not use a drone to gather evidence or other information.
(b) A person, a state agency, or a political subdivision as defined in s. 11.45 may not use a drone equipped with an imaging device to record an image of privately owned real property or of the owner, tenant, occupant, invitee, or licensee of such property with the intent to conduct surveillance on the individual or property captured in the image in violation of such person’s reasonable expectation of privacy without his or her written consent. For purposes of this section, a person is presumed to have a reasonable expectation of privacy on his or her privately owned real property if he or she is not observable by persons located at ground level in a place where they have a legal right to be, regardless of whether he or she is observable from the air with the use of a drone.
Further, the term "surveillance" is defined quite differently than one would think:

(e) “Surveillance” means:
1. With respect to an owner, tenant, occupant, invitee, or licensee of privately owned real property, the observation of such persons with sufficient visual clarity to be able to obtain information about their identity, habits, conduct, movements, or whereabouts; or
2. With respect to privately owned real property, the observation of such property’s physical improvements with sufficient visual clarity to be able to determine unique identifying features or its occupancy by one or more persons.
In other words, if there is sufficient clarity in your pictures/video to identify a structure, you're surveilled it. It doesn't mean you hang out and watch it specifically for movement or occupancy. If you can identify it it, you've violated this section of the statute. Simply flying close enough to incidentally capture the property at an angle that is above ground level, you're potentially liable.

While (3)(b) requires "Intent to conduct surveillance on the individual or property captured", intent is very subjective. It's difficult to prove criminally, but not civilly - which is what this statute is authorizing. It would be fairly easy for a neighbor to claim your regular flights past their property constitutes intent. How do you (dis)prove that? A jury filled with fellow anti-drone peers is a chance I wouldn't want to take.

 
Read it again. Until June of last year, it was explicitly to tie the hands of government to prevent illegal searches. But, since then, the statute has been amended to protect citizens from ANY drone operators (there are exceptions for surveying, utility work, etc).

Specifically, 3(b) (emphasis added by me):

(3) PROHIBITED USE OF DRONES.—
(a) A law enforcement agency may not use a drone to gather evidence or other information.
(b) A person, a state agency, or a political subdivision as defined in s. 11.45 may not use a drone equipped with an imaging device to record an image of privately owned real property or of the owner, tenant, occupant, invitee, or licensee of such property with the intent to conduct surveillance on the individual or property captured in the image in violation of such person’s reasonable expectation of privacy without his or her written consent. For purposes of this section, a person is presumed to have a reasonable expectation of privacy on his or her privately owned real property if he or she is not observable by persons located at ground level in a place where they have a legal right to be, regardless of whether he or she is observable from the air with the use of a drone.
Further, the term "surveillance" is defined quite differently than one would think:

(e) “Surveillance” means:
1. With respect to an owner, tenant, occupant, invitee, or licensee of privately owned real property, the observation of such persons with sufficient visual clarity to be able to obtain information about their identity, habits, conduct, movements, or whereabouts; or
2. With respect to privately owned real property, the observation of such property’s physical improvements with sufficient visual clarity to be able to determine unique identifying features or its occupancy by one or more persons.
In other words, if there is sufficient clarity in your pictures/video to identify a structure, you're surveilled it. It doesn't mean you hang out and watch it specifically for movement or occupancy. If you can identify it it, you've violated this section of the statute. Simply flying close enough to incidentally capture the property at an angle that is above ground level, you're potentially liable.

While (3)(b) requires "Intent to conduct surveillance on the individual or property captured", intent is very subjective. It's difficult to prove criminally, but not civilly - which is what this statute is authorizing. It would be fairly easy for a neighbor to claim your regular flights past their property constitutes intent. How do you (dis)prove that? A jury filled with fellow anti-drone peers is a chance I wouldn't want to take.


3b wasn't on the Florida law page I looked at In that case I agree and it sucks for you all living in Florida flying drones. That's the kind of knee jerk law that needs to be avoided. Reading that, you can potentially be sued anywhere you fly your drone. Even if you're on your own property and take it up 300ft you're bound to record someone else's property and it'll be plenty clear and identifiable with today's technology. Good luck!
 
3b wasn't on the Florida law page I looked at In that case I agree and it sucks for you all living in Florida flying drones. That's the kind of knee jerk law that needs to be avoided. Reading that, you can potentially be sued anywhere you fly your drone. Even if you're on your own property and take it up 300ft you're bound to record someone else's property and it'll be plenty clear and identifiable with today's technology. Good luck!

EXACTLY. Unfortunately, the anti-drone movement seems unopposed. One new law/reg after the next, each getting successively more ridiculous.
 
EXACTLY. Unfortunately, the anti-drone movement seems unopposed. One new law/reg after the next, each getting successively more ridiculous.

One last thing, using your link I read through the rest of it. I see in 4d there's still an exception for commercial activity so it's not a total wash. I use the term "total" loosely. Glad I found this forum, these are good talks
 
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