"Activation" and internet/data requirements

[Faster]

Is it even possible to fly a DJI drone that uses DJI Fly for flight control in more than a highly restricted manner? An OP suggested it is, but I'm not yet convinced.

Has anyone here ever flown a DJI drone that uses DJI Fly for flight control, with the phone running DJI Fly in "airplane" mode?

The DJI FPV is different, and the OOP might want to consider that option. Once I activated my DJI FPV, it's never had any interest in a phone connection.

Many times I've flown my DJI Fly drones with phones in airplane mode and my tablet always (it doesn't have SIM Card)

 

[droneybear]

Just an observation, but you being in the data surveillance industry and it's an important concern of yours, why didn't you research this before purchasing the drone?

As I said earlier, this was an impulse purchase, literally on the way to the checkout counter. Thought it would be a fun toy, never would have dreamed we'd have to "register" and "activate" something like this just to mess around at home. I'd purchased some of the earlier generation (several years ago) stuff and it was just like any other toy that one buys and goes home and plays with. Obviously I hadn't looked into it or it wouldn't have been purchased.

This forum has a wealth of knowledge to share and I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist because you received a response that told it like it is, and it wasn't what you hoped for. A better approach would have been to educate us on the data collection industry. Maybe, just maybe, if that was done, we all might learn something.

Yeah, I shouldn't let one clown spoil what seems like a very good forum here. The thing is, I'm happy to spend time talking about personal data and the egregiousness of an entire industry, but it doesn't seem like the place for that.

It's tough when the first comment, only minutes after posting starts with:
You sound far too paranoid ...
It's just rude and combative out of the gate. and then

But your fears about it sending precious personal data back to DJI are unfounded.
I have yet to see anything to back this up. And again, it's written in a derisive tone. Why?

DJI only gets to see your data if you choose to share it with them.
And this does not seem to be true at all. From what folks here are saying, there is a registration process that does indeed require some information to be sent to DJI.

 

[droneybear]

Addendum- 6 months ago I posted a series of questions about an area of concern that parallels your concerns. It wasn't the same type of issue but it was fueled by my admitted paranoia about it. I did receive some replies that basically said that I was being overly concerned and shouldn't worry about it. I messaged some of the experts here explaining the issues and got their read and advice about it. I moved forward with their advice and my understanding that they might not full comprehend my concerns and would have to adjust my path accordingly. No worries and no bunched up skivvies. I would suggest that you take a similar path.

Agreed. If you and some of the others here had been the first to respond, likely this would have been a more pleasant conversation.

 

[Starz]

You say activation "involves" some identifying info", but what exactly is that info?

Just an email address. Doesn’t matter which one, just one that’s tied to you.
Or, anyone you know could use their email address, activate the drone, then hand it to you to do what you want.

 

[droneybear]

Understand your concerns droneybear. Every time you turn around someone has their hand in your pocket or wanting access to your information. One has do what you can to keep the wolves from the door without restricting your activities too much.
Regards
PS I’ll pay the freight to Australia if your giving it away.

Yep, hands in our pockets, in our wallets, down our throats and following us around like tagged animals. I personally have no idea what DJI does with anything they get, but based on a lot of other companies I *do* know about, what seems "innocuous" gets married together with lots of other data until it's no longer innocuous. And it's unlikely that anyone outside a very select few within the company know.

I already have someone in mind to give it away, but thanks for the offer. ;-)

 

[droneybear]

I think it's possible to do what you want, but I don't think there's a practical way to do it, by which I mean, some way to do it that doesn't involve a lot of IT work.

If you like doing that kind of IT work, and you're good at it, then that's fine. If either of those conditions doesn't apply, you should probably get a non-DJI drone.

It just depends on what you consider more valuable, your time, or your privacy. There's no cheap way to get what you want, in a time-cost sense.

Sounds like a glimmer of what I was hoping for.... What strategy are you thinking? I'm perfectly fine spending time to deal with this, and I have IT and dev skills.

And yes, it's a frustrating world these days where people are so deeply wedded to "convenience" (even when it's sometimes not even convenient, but only appears so) that they're willing to give up practically anything without thinking it through. People are even willing to install insurance company spyware in their vehicles that can track them around just to save a few bucks, so yeah, that's the world we're in, messed up. Many of the tradeoffs we're faced with are artificial. i.e. if you want to have the convenience of turn-by-turn directions while you're driving (I don't), then that *requires* enabling GPS tracking. But in many cases there's simply no real *need* for data collection, but companies force users into it anyway. That's kind of what this feels like, though I'm not sure yet.

 

[droneybear]

You're not paranoid, if they really are out to get you...

Are they? Probably not, but that's not the point.

You don't have to be paranoid to value your privacy highly.

In this context, I've never worried about it, but that doesn't mean it's irrational to feel otherwise.

Exactly. Thank you.

 

[Chaosrider]

Thanks. Nice to see there are folks who can respond in a non-combative way.

It's interesting to know that DJI is the most restrictive, I had no idea, although I have no interest in doing anything in controlled airspace. Like I said above, the idea was just to play around with a fun toy and do stuff like family videos and see what it's like to fly a drone.

You say activation "involves" some identifying info", but what exactly is that info? I really didn't get that far in the process because I don't connect IoT stuff (that I can't control) to my networks without them being firewalled from the internet at large.

I hadn't considered other brands, but perhaps an option. Seems like something I should look into.

Holy Stone seems to be the next biggest player after DJI, but they're a distant second, and they don't have anything like DJI quality and capability.

But if privacy matters more to you than either of those things, you should look at the Holy Stone HS120D. I have one, and it's good solid drone. But it's not a DJI.

Your call!

 

[Deleted member 84685]

As I said earlier, this was an impulse purchase, literally on the way to the checkout counter. Thought it would be a fun toy, never would have dreamed we'd have to "register" and "activate" something like this just to mess around at home. I'd purchased some of the earlier generation (several years ago) stuff and it was just like any other toy that one buys and goes home and plays with. Obviously I hadn't looked into it or it wouldn't have been purchased.


Yeah, I shouldn't let one clown spoil what seems like a very good forum here. The thing is, I'm happy to spend time talking about personal data and the egregiousness of an entire industry, but it doesn't seem like the place for that.

It's tough when the first comment, only minutes after posting starts with:
You sound far too paranoid ...
It's just rude and combative out of the gate. and then

But your fears about it sending precious personal data back to DJI are unfounded.
I have yet to see anything to back this up. And again, it's written in a derisive tone. Why?

DJI only gets to see your data if you choose to share it with them.
And this does not seem to be true at all. From what folks here are saying, there is a registration process that does indeed require some information to be sent to DJI.

No disrespect to you but public forum and gota take good with the bad.that person you refer to is probably the most knowledgeable here ,start giving crap like myself just makes a disliked member,you seem clever and sure you'll work something out to go fly,,yip dji one off activation, theres more intrusive things around than dji so I think you be safe,get that drone out and enjoy

 

[Chaosrider]

Many times I've flown my DJI Fly drones with phones in airplane mode and my tablet always (it doesn't have SIM Card)

What tablet do you have?

This is going to bug me until I figure out what the reference is that I'm remembering. It was a clear statement that you need mobile data for "X", and it was something beyond just activation. Since I never worried about it, and I fully intended to fly connected, I didn't look at it in any detail.

Are there any features that you give up, perhaps map updates, by not being connected? I know it was something, but I can't remember what.

 

[Faster]

What tablet do you have?

This is going to bug me until I figure out what the reference is that I'm remembering. It was a clear statement that you need mobile data for "X", and it was something beyond just activation. Since I never worried about it, and I fully intended to fly connected, I didn't look at it in any detail.

Are there any features that you give up, perhaps map updates, by not being connected? I know it was something, but I can't remember what.

I use a Samsung Galaxy S5e but any WIFI tablet would be the same if you are in the field w/o WI-FI. You'll loose updated maps but if you load them at your house before going out they will be kept in the DJI Fly app cache.

 

[droneybear]

Just an email address. Doesn’t matter which one, just one that’s tied to you.

Heh. The last 3 words. Nope. ;-)

Or, anyone you know could use their email address, activate the drone, then hand it to you to do what you want.

Sure, it's possible with some effort to create a variety of styles of temporary junk email addresses, but is this really that simple?

Here's a scenario: I can (and do) completely disable all GPS/location activity on the no-data iPhone I'd be using for this. However, if the iOS app talks to the drone before or during the registration/activation process, then I have no way to prevent *any* kind of information, including GPS, from the drone being sent to DJI during that process if the app is online. This would not be surprising at all.

So let's say I physically go to a remote location for a temporary GPS position, then I don't have easy access to WiFi. Or maybe with some effort I could drive somewhere and find an open coffee shop or library WiFi. But for all I know the drone is collecting GPS data all the time whenever it's powered on. That would not be surprising either. Then as soon as it's connected to the app, if the app is online, there goes the accumulated GPS data.

GPS is one of the most important/invasive bits of tracking data of all. Sadly, many people have become numbed to this in recent years. And before people start making paranoia cracks, you need to understand that in the data collection world there's FAR more complex and even bizarre stuff that we *know* is happening, stuff you'd hardly believe, all because of the value of location data.

So if it's possible to register and the only thing they get is a (temp) email address, I have no problem doing that, it's easy. And I'm happy to type in a drone ID, if necessary. But anything that happens on a closed source iOS app, as opposed to a well-understood environment, like an OSS web browser, then all bets are off.

This may have gone further than anyone cares to help with, but it would be great if someone could describe the actual registration process in detail? I mean the order of how things connect and data entered, etc. Maybe once you've done it once it's not easy to know anymore except from distant memories?

 

[Chaosrider]

Heh. The last 3 words. Nope. ;-)


Sure, it's possible with some effort to create a variety of styles of temporary junk email addresses, but is this really that simple?

Here's a scenario: I can (and do) completely disable all GPS/location activity on the no-data iPhone I'd be using for this. However, if the iOS app talks to the drone before or during the registration/activation process, then I have no way to prevent *any* kind of information, including GPS, from the drone being sent to DJI during that process if the app is online. This would not be surprising at all.

So let's say I physically go to a remote location for a temporary GPS position, then I don't have easy access to WiFi. Or maybe with some effort I could drive somewhere and find an open coffee shop or library WiFi. But for all I know the drone is collecting GPS data all the time whenever it's powered on. That would not be surprising either. Then as soon as it's connected to the app, if the app is online, there goes the accumulated GPS data.

GPS is one of the most important/invasive bits of tracking data of all. Sadly, many people have become numbed to this in recent years. And before people start making paranoia cracks, you need to understand that in the data collection world there's FAR more complex and even bizarre stuff that we *know* is happening, stuff you'd hardly believe, all because of the value of location data.

So if it's possible to register and the only thing they get is a (temp) email address, I have no problem doing that, it's easy. And I'm happy to type in a drone ID, if necessary. But anything that happens on a closed source iOS app, as opposed to a well-understood environment, like an OSS web browser, then all bets are off.

This may have gone further than anyone cares to help with, but it would be great if someone could describe the actual registration process in detail? I mean the order of how things connect and data entered, etc. Maybe once you've done it once it's not easy to know anymore except from distant memories?

There may be a way to do what you want.

You could get a disposable cell phone that you intend to use only for flying the drone. Give it connectivity with anonymous "minute cards". It will need to be a cell phone that will load and run DJI Fly. Not all will.

Once you do that, download and install DJI Fly. Then power up the drone and the remote and the phone and DJI Fly as the instructions direct. I don't even remember if it asked for any personal information, but if it does, just lie to it. It may need a valid email address, but getting one anonymously, for just this purpose, wouldn't be that hard.

At that point, you should be good to do. It's reported here that if you then leave the cell phone in "airplane mode", you'll lose some background functionality, but it will fly the drone just fine.

This is just top-of-the head stuff, but it seems that it would get you what you want, without you giving DJI, or anyone else, any personal information.

Does anyone here see a hole in this hypothetical architecture, for either functionality or privacy?

 

[droneybear]

Perhaps you should consider a less "integrated" drone. The Holy Stone HS120D is a GPS camera drone for under $200, You need to download the app to see the video while you're flying, but that's a one-shot connection to your phone, not your drone. And you can fly the drone, and record video on an on-board SD card, with no phone involvement of any kind.

It's not dimly close to a Mini-2 in terms of capability, but you can fly it "off the grid", if that's what's most important to you.

There's a good used market for Mini-2s, so you won't lose that much if you want to sell it, and you'll get more than enough to buy the HS120D.

My personal priorities are different, but to each his own!

This is also good info, thanks. I'll look into that model at some point. Looks like you have one?

Ideally I'd like to be able to make use of what we have already, because it feels wasteful just sitting in the box all this time, and will eventually just become obsolete/unusable. I'd probably just give it away rather than mess around trying to sell it, but TBH this experience was quite the turn-off. The excitement at the time of purchase disappeared into an "Ugh, why did I do this? Never mind."

And yes, flying "off the grid" (which seems like it should be the default) is more important to me than fancy features. However, stability and maneuverability and decent camera are all important as well. I don't really care about having things like updated maps and such. I don't know enough about how follow-me stuff works; I'm sure I can read up, just haven't bothered yet. Perhaps if I got more deeply into this activity I might change my mind about wanting certain other features, but for now, not a big deal.

 

[droneybear]

There may be a way to do what you want.

You could get a disposable cell phone that you intend to use only for flying the drone. Give it connectivity with anonymous "minute cards". It will need to be a cell phone that will load and run DJI Fly. Not all will.

Once you do that, download and install DJI Fly. Then power up the drone and the remote and the phone and DJI Fly as the instructions direct. I don't even remember if it asked for any personal information, but if it does, just lie to it. It may need a valid email address, but getting one anonymously, for just this purpose, wouldn't be that hard.

At that point, you should be good to do. It's reported here that if you then leave the cell phone in "airplane mode", you'll lose some background functionality, but it will fly the drone just fine.

This is just top-of-the head stuff, but it seems that it would get you what you want, without you giving DJI, or anyone else, any personal information.

Does anyone here see a hole in this hypothetical architecture, for either functionality or privacy?

I've done my share of burner phones over the years, so that part is not difficult. Though I've only done it with super cheap devices that I don't mind tossing; buying a throw-away phone that's capable of running DJI Fly is another level. Buying a burner SIM and installing in an existing smartphone can still be tied together and tracked via the hardware ID, but now we're getting into esoteric stuff that's probably beyond this thread, and probably unlikely to happen in this use case anyway.

However, I'm not sure how this avoids the app having access to location data from the drone. If all the hardware is turned on and connected at the same time as the app has open access to the internet, then I think all bets are off. I'm happy to keep hammering at this though, if you are.

 

[Meta4]

My understanding is that DJI Fly requires live mobile data to be able to function.
Do you have specific reason to believe otherwise?
I dimly recall that there's a very limited extent to which you can fly it without live DJI Fly, but that's a pretty fuzzy memory.

You have no idea at all and are spreading misinformation that's just feeding the OP's paranoia

I think it's possible to do what you want, but I don't think there's a practical way to do it, by which I mean, some way to do it that doesn't involve a lot of IT work.

It just depends on what you consider more valuable, your time, or your privacy. There's no cheap way to get what you want, in a time-cost sense.

No idea at all.

Is it even possible to fly a DJI drone that uses DJI Fly for flight control in more than a highly restricted manner? An OP suggested it is, but I'm not yet convinced.

Has anyone here ever flown a DJI drone that uses DJI Fly for flight control, with the phone running DJI Fly in "airplane" mode?

It's unbelievable how little you understand about the drones you fly.
Your drone needs no data at all to fly.
None, zip, zilch, nix, nada.
Has anyone ever don e it?
Yes .. hundreds of forum members do all the time.
I've been flying 7 years and my drones never see/use internet data.

You are the last person that should be listened to on this topic.

 

[UAVquadman]

You sound far too paranoid ...
You will need to initialise the drone with DJI to fly it.
But your fears about it sending precious personal data back to DJI are unfounded.
You don't need any internet connection to fly.
DJI only gets to see your data if you choose to share it with them.

at one time they shared private date hence the extended return policy by Best Buy. I bet all is fine now though.

 

[Faster]

This is also good info, thanks. I'll look into that model at some point. Looks like you have one?

Ideally I'd like to be able to make use of what we have already, because it feels wasteful just sitting in the box all this time, and will eventually just become obsolete/unusable. I'd probably just give it away rather than mess around trying to sell it, but TBH this experience was quite the turn-off. The excitement at the time of purchase disappeared into an "Ugh, why did I do this? Never mind."

And yes, flying "off the grid" (which seems like it should be the default) is more important to me than fancy features. However, stability and maneuverability and decent camera are all important as well. I don't really care about having things like updated maps and such. I don't know enough about how follow-me stuff works; I'm sure I can read up, just haven't bothered yet. Perhaps if I got more deeply into this activity I might change my mind about wanting certain other features, but for now, not a big deal.

I completely understand your point of view and I respect that and because of this I tell you DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME AND GET RID THE OF YOUR DRONE. With DJI is not only registering, if you are going to fly in a NFZ (and believe me they are thousands of them) you'll need to request authorization to DJI in order to take off and at that moment you'll be sending your data and location to them.
Registering is just one of the many times you'll need to send info to China in order to fly a DJI drone.

 

[droneybear]

at one time they shared private date hence the extended return policy by Best Buy.

hmm.

I bet all is fine now though.

Interesting comment. Why would you believe that?

 

[droneybear]

I completely understand your point of view and I respect that and because of this I tell you DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME AND GET RID THE OF YOUR DRONE. With DJI is not only registering, if you are going to fly in a NFZ (and believe me they are thousands of them) you'll need to request authorization to DJI in order to take off and at that moment you'll be sending your data and location to them.
Registering is just one of the many times you'll need to send info to China in order to fly a DJI drone.

Well, unlike a couple people here, yes, I very strongly don't want *any* of my personal information going to China. Or U.S. tech companies. Or U.S. data brokers. Etc. Because eventually it all ends up in the hands of the data brokers.

That said, I've examined the DJI map and there aren't any controlled areas within several miles of where I'd be flying, so that part isn't a concern to me. Perhaps that might change in the future, but I'm not particularly worried about it. If there's a different map I should be looking at, please let me know, but it seems like that's the most relevant one for this situation.