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"Activation" and internet/data requirements

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droneybear

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Background: I’ve done some small-scale RC flying in the past, and I did the “toy” quadcopters some years back, but I’m new to DJI and the world of modern drones.

Current: friend and I have a Mini-2, and have some questions about activation and data that goes out from both the drone itself and/or the app. Some of what I *thought* was true at the time of purchase about less-than-250g being unregulated isn’t strictly true, but what I’m not okay doing is sending *any* data to DJI, and we’re not going to create a *#!^@! "DJI account”. I simply want to be able to putz around and fly this at a local park, take some videos of the kids or maybe on a hike where there’s some open space. Simple stuff. Eventually I will also want to get into the developer SDK(s), just for fun, but other than knowing that’s something I’m capable of, it may be a different topic.

I’ve been rummaging through this forum and the web at large for a couple hours now, and this link: How to Make Sure Your DJI Drone Isn't Sharing Your Data talks about some of the issues in the past, and LDM, etc., but 1) I’m not sure it’s up-to-date. 2) I’ve heard there have been firmware changes over time that will change the equation.

I’ve also read through this thread: Why do you need internet connectivity? which answers the question of requiring internet While You Fly, but doesn’t talk about the activation issue and what’s required as far as an “account”. I’m not giving DJI any real email address for them to track, for example.

So far it’s just been sitting in the box, a waste of ~$450, because when we first opened it a few months ago, we couldn’t do a thing without allowing it to communicate with DJI at some level. The intent is that it’s going to be controlled with a device that’s NOT online, we’ll simply use an old iPhone without data or iPodTouch from the stack of castoffs.

Yes, I understand that the iOS device would need to connect online briefly via wifi to load the app, and we’re okay with that — that’s the App Store. But once the app is loaded, then the device will immediately be offline again, before launching the app, as there’s simply no way to control data flow from an iOS device when running 3rd party apps, short of making sure wifi is disabled.

In a nutshell, can we use this device At All without allowing the drone itself or the app to send unknown data (could be anything including GPS derived from the drone itself, there would be no way to prevent that) over the internet to DJI or elsewhere? If I can do a simple activation process via a laptop/desktop web browser and get a code or something, I’m okay with that, as I can prevent the sending of any identifiable or location data to DJI. If I can bypass this by building my own hand-spun app, that would be useful info as well, but obviously a bigger project.

Any other info or links related to this overall topic are welcome, thanks!
 
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In a nutshell, can we use this device At All without allowing the drone itself or the app to send unknown data (could be anything including GPS derived from the drone itself, there would be no way to prevent that) over the internet to DJI or elsewhere? If I can do a simple activation process via a laptop/desktop web browser and get a code or something, I’m okay with that, as I can prevent the sending of any identifiable or location data to DJI. If I can bypass this by building my own hand-spun app, that would be useful info as well, but obviously a bigger project.
You sound far too paranoid ...
You will need to initialise the drone with DJI to fly it.
But your fears about it sending precious personal data back to DJI are unfounded.
You don't need any internet connection to fly.
DJI only gets to see your data if you choose to share it with them.
 
You sound far too paranoid ...
You will need to initialise the drone with DJI to fly it.
But your fears about it sending precious personal data back to DJI are unfounded.
You don't need any internet connection to fly.
DJI only gets to see your data if you choose to share it with them.
I should have known someone would make a comment like that. If you don't understand the data surveillance industry (it's my industry), then your comments come off as both uninformed and antagonistic. You have no idea what data DJI gets unless you have the source to their app, that's a fact. If you want to have a big discussion about this, I can do that, and I've spent over 15 years in this industry, but I think it's not something that belongs in this forum. Simply answering the question in a non-judgemental way would be great.

I don't know what "initialize" means in this context, i.e. what it requires. I'm not going to allow the app to have free access to the internet when it can also talk to the drone at the same time. Is there a way for us to use this drone, or should I just give it away? If anyone understands the requirements for using the SDK(s) and can shortcut my search on that front, that would be great; I've only begun to start looking at those docs -- and there are a lot!
 
I should have known someone would make a comment like that.
You mean someone with a realistic attitude and practical knowledge of the subject and issues surrounding it?
If you don't understand the data surveillance industry (it's my industry), then your comments come off as both uninformed and antagonistic. You have no idea what data DJI gets unless you have the source to their app, that's a fact. If you want to have a big discussion about this, I can do that, and I've spent over 15 years in this industry, but I think it's not something that belongs in this forum. Simply answering the question in a non-judgemental way would be great.

I don't know what "initialize" means in this context, i.e. what it requires. I'm not going to allow the app to have free access to the internet when it can also talk to the drone at the same time. Is there a way for us to use this drone, or should I just give it away? If anyone understands the requirements for using the SDK(s) and can shortcut my search on that front, that would be great; I've only begun to start looking at those docs -- and there are a lot!
Drones aren't for you.
Neither are credit cards or mobile phones or going out in public.
 
With what knowledge you have on data collection, I’m sure there are several here on this forum that would be interested in what specific data is being collected and what someone may be doing with it even though they have denied DJI access within the system. With several years of flying DJI products, I’ve not had anyone knock on my door with a bag of information about my hobby.
With the information you have provided in your post, my guess would be you could use the drone as bait to allow whoever to collect said data, then post what data was collected and where it went.
Please share! New information is greatly appreciated.
 
…If anyone else actually wants to answer the question, that would be great.
DJI drones will not fly unless activated, which involves some identifying info. A used drone will already be activated, and does not require reactivation.

Here we are in an all-DJI forum. Perhaps there are drones from other manufacturers acceptable to you, I don’t know.

DJI is well known to be the manufacturer most restrictive of your ability to fly controlled airspace, even with clearance from the feds, and would require phone & email confirmation to fly anything but uncontrolled airspace.
 
Just an observation, but you being in the data surveillance industry and it's an important concern of yours, why didn't you research this before purchasing the drone?

This forum has a wealth of knowledge to share and I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist because you received a response that told it like it is, and it wasn't what you hoped for. A better approach would have been to educate us on the data collection industry. Maybe, just maybe, if that was done, we all might learn something.
 
Addendum- 6 months ago I posted a series of questions about an area of concern that parallels your concerns. It wasn't the same type of issue but it was fueled by my admitted paranoia about it. I did receive some replies that basically said that I was being overly concerned and shouldn't worry about it. I messaged some of the experts here explaining the issues and got their read and advice about it. I moved forward with their advice and my understanding that they might not full comprehend my concerns and would have to adjust my path accordingly. No worries and no bunched up skivvies. I would suggest that you take a similar path.
 
Yeh interesting read,if you just wana fly around with the kids at park buy a 50 dollar wifi drone,who cares about info sharing,,nothing ever happens, fill us in if you think it's so relevant, mayby it's a conect the dots game on a world map,anyway who cares,activate it and fly and enjoy
😎🤳
 
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Understand your concerns droneybear. Every time you turn around someone has their hand in your pocket or wanting access to your information. One has do what you can to keep the wolves from the door without restricting your activities too much.
Regards
PS I’ll pay the freight to Australia if your giving it away. 😀
 
Background: I’ve done some small-scale RC flying in the past, and I did the “toy” quadcopters some years back, but I’m new to DJI and the world of modern drones.

Current: friend and I have a Mini-2, and have some questions about activation and data that goes out from both the drone itself and/or the app. Some of what I *thought* was true at the time of purchase about less-than-250g being unregulated isn’t strictly true, but what I’m not okay doing is sending *any* data to DJI, and we’re not going to create a *#!^@! "DJI account”. I simply want to be able to putz around and fly this at a local park, take some videos of the kids or maybe on a hike where there’s some open space. Simple stuff. Eventually I will also want to get into the developer SDK(s), just for fun, but other than knowing that’s something I’m capable of, it may be a different topic.

I’ve been rummaging through this forum and the web at large for a couple hours now, and this link: How to Make Sure Your DJI Drone Isn't Sharing Your Data talks about some of the issues in the past, and LDM, etc., but 1) I’m not sure it’s up-to-date. 2) I’ve heard there have been firmware changes over time that will change the equation.

I’ve also read through this thread: Why do you need internet connectivity? which answers the question of requiring internet While You Fly, but doesn’t talk about the activation issue and what’s required as far as an “account”. I’m not giving DJI any real email address for them to track, for example.

So far it’s just been sitting in the box, a waste of ~$450, because when we first opened it a few months ago, we couldn’t do a thing without allowing it to communicate with DJI at some level. The intent is that it’s going to be controlled with a device that’s NOT online, we’ll simply use an old iPhone without data or iPodTouch from the stack of castoffs.

Yes, I understand that the iOS device would need to connect online briefly via wifi to load the app, and we’re okay with that — that’s the App Store. But once the app is loaded, then the device will immediately be offline again, before launching the app, as there’s simply no way to control data flow from an iOS device when running 3rd party apps, short of making sure wifi is disabled.

In a nutshell, can we use this device At All without allowing the drone itself or the app to send unknown data (could be anything including GPS derived from the drone itself, there would be no way to prevent that) over the internet to DJI or elsewhere? If I can do a simple activation process via a laptop/desktop web browser and get a code or something, I’m okay with that, as I can prevent the sending of any identifiable or location data to DJI. If I can bypass this by building my own hand-spun app, that would be useful info as well, but obviously a bigger project.

Any other info or links related to this overall topic are welcome, thanks!
Perhaps you should consider a less "integrated" drone. The Holy Stone HS120D is a GPS camera drone for under $200, You need to download the app to see the video while you're flying, but that's a one-shot connection to your phone, not your drone. And you can fly the drone, and record video on an on-board SD card, with no phone involvement of any kind.

It's not dimly close to a Mini-2 in terms of capability, but you can fly it "off the grid", if that's what's most important to you.

There's a good used market for Mini-2s, so you won't lose that much if you want to sell it, and you'll get more than enough to buy the HS120D.

My personal priorities are different, but to each his own!
 
I should have known someone would make a comment like that. If you don't understand the data surveillance industry (it's my industry), then your comments come off as both uninformed and antagonistic. You have no idea what data DJI gets unless you have the source to their app, that's a fact. If you want to have a big discussion about this, I can do that, and I've spent over 15 years in this industry, but I think it's not something that belongs in this forum. Simply answering the question in a non-judgemental way would be great.

I don't know what "initialize" means in this context, i.e. what it requires. I'm not going to allow the app to have free access to the internet when it can also talk to the drone at the same time. Is there a way for us to use this drone, or should I just give it away? If anyone understands the requirements for using the SDK(s) and can shortcut my search on that front, that would be great; I've only begun to start looking at those docs -- and there are a lot!
If you already know everything then why come on here asking questions? Are just looking for an argument?
 
You sound far too paranoid ...
You will need to initialise the drone with DJI to fly it.
But your fears about it sending precious personal data back to DJI are unfounded.
You don't need any internet connection to fly.
DJI only gets to see your data if you choose to share it with them.
My understanding is that DJI Fly requires live mobile data to be able to function.

Do you have specific reason to believe otherwise?

I dimly recall that there's a very limited extent to which you can fly it without live DJI Fly, but that's a pretty fuzzy memory.
 
I should have known someone would make a comment like that. If you don't understand the data surveillance industry (it's my industry), then your comments come off as both uninformed and antagonistic. You have no idea what data DJI gets unless you have the source to their app, that's a fact. If you want to have a big discussion about this, I can do that, and I've spent over 15 years in this industry, but I think it's not something that belongs in this forum. Simply answering the question in a non-judgemental way would be great.

I don't know what "initialize" means in this context, i.e. what it requires. I'm not going to allow the app to have free access to the internet when it can also talk to the drone at the same time. Is there a way for us to use this drone, or should I just give it away? If anyone understands the requirements for using the SDK(s) and can shortcut my search on that front, that would be great; I've only begun to start looking at those docs -- and there are a lot!
I worked in IT Security for many years, so I'm not a total rube...

From 1999:

"Scott McNealy, co-founder and former CEO of Sun Microsystems, famously told a group of reporters, “You have zero privacy anyway…Get over it!”"

I can't imagine a practical way to defeat the DJI data integration. And as a published science fiction author, I can imagine a lot.

Is it possible? Probably, with a lot of work.

The question is, would you rather be doing that work, or flying your drone?

That's a question only you can answer.
 
You mean someone with a realistic attitude and practical knowledge of the subject and issues surrounding it?

Drones aren't for you.
Neither are credit cards or mobile phones or going out in public.
Well, I think that's a bit excessive.

There's a class of extreme prepper that lives like there's already been a worldwide collapse, so that they're prepared to live that way, if there eventually really is one.

I think that's a nutty life choice, but it's theirs to make. I'm currently on well water, propane, and I have a generator. I have enough food and water and general supplies to last easily a week or two, but that's it.

I was Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Nevada for several years, and I served on the Libertarian National Committee for several years. I fully understand people having a fanatic privacy desire. I just don't share it.

One question I had to answer for myself early was, why would anyone care about my data? Sure, everyone on-line wants to sell me stuff, or try to separate me from my money in other ways, but really, so what? If I don't want to buy something, I don't have to.

Being extremely concerned about privacy has costs, not being able to use a lot of cool modern techy stuff being one of them. For some people, it's worth the cost. For me, it isn't.

It may well be true that DJI drones aren't for the OP, given the level of data integration they have, but there are other drones that don't have that.
 
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And just like that, the thread is poisoned. I see you have lots of posts, otherwise I'd just report you to the mods, because your comment is clearly not helpful in any way, and it's spiteful and antagonistic. How did that help? I won't comment further about your ignorance on the topic. This is my industry. I trust that you know way more than I do about drones, but I know probably 100-fold what you do about data collection and what goes on behind the scenes.

It's possible that *DJI* drones aren't for me. However, I can also build my own and there's a ton of OSS stuff available that completely avoids BS data collection. Likely a fun project, but this DJI was just an impulse-buy toy that sounded like fun. Maybe it will be, maybe it won't.

If anyone else actually wants to answer the question, that would be great.
I think it's possible to do what you want, but I don't think there's a practical way to do it, by which I mean, some way to do it that doesn't involve a lot of IT work.

If you like doing that kind of IT work, and you're good at it, then that's fine. If either of those conditions doesn't apply, you should probably get a non-DJI drone.

It just depends on what you consider more valuable, your time, or your privacy. There's no cheap way to get what you want, in a time-cost sense.
 
I answered your question.
Sell your drone, it's not ever going to satisfy someone as paranoid as you.
You're not paranoid, if they really are out to get you...

Are they? Probably not, but that's not the point.

You don't have to be paranoid to value your privacy highly.

In this context, I've never worried about it, but that doesn't mean it's irrational to feel otherwise.
 
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DJI drones will not fly unless activated, which involves some identifying info. A used drone will already be activated, and does not require reactivation.

Here we are in an all-DJI forum. Perhaps there are drones from other manufacturers acceptable to you, I don’t know.

DJI is well known to be the manufacturer most restrictive of your ability to fly controlled airspace, even with clearance from the feds, and would require phone & email confirmation to fly anything but uncontrolled airspace.

Thanks. Nice to see there are folks who can respond in a non-combative way. :)

It's interesting to know that DJI is the most restrictive, I had no idea, although I have no interest in doing anything in controlled airspace. Like I said above, the idea was just to play around with a fun toy and do stuff like family videos and see what it's like to fly a drone.

You say activation "involves" some identifying info", but what exactly is that info? I really didn't get that far in the process because I don't connect IoT stuff (that I can't control) to my networks without them being firewalled from the internet at large.

I hadn't considered other brands, but perhaps an option. Seems like something I should look into.
 
DJI drones will not fly unless activated, which involves some identifying info. A used drone will already be activated, and does not require reactivation.

Here we are in an all-DJI forum. Perhaps there are drones from other manufacturers acceptable to you, I don’t know.

DJI is well known to be the manufacturer most restrictive of your ability to fly controlled airspace, even with clearance from the feds, and would require phone & email confirmation to fly anything but uncontrolled airspace.
Is it even possible to fly a DJI drone that uses DJI Fly for flight control in more than a highly restricted manner? An OP suggested it is, but I'm not yet convinced.

Has anyone here ever flown a DJI drone that uses DJI Fly for flight control, with the phone running DJI Fly in "airplane" mode?

The DJI FPV is different, and the OOP might want to consider that option. Once I activated my DJI FPV, it's never had any interest in a phone connection.
 
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