AirMap & B4UFLY Idea and Senator Mike Lee from Utah

[PacificSkyDreamn]

We're all probably aware that US Senator Mike Lee from Utah is sponsoring a bill in Congress that would turn over control over all US airspace below 200 feet to state and local governments. Yes a bad idea for drone hobbyists. I read another thread complaining about the San Francisco/Oakland East Bay Regional Park's ban on all drones. It pointed out that this huge local government special district that covers 1500 square miles and spans multiple counties does not show up in AIrMap or B4UFLY. It's noncontiguous in nature - in fact I have a small mile long, half mile wide piece if it right across the street form my house, and its a no fly zone. Another example is Pleasanton California which has banned all drones in its public parks, or Santa Clara County that allows drones in some parks but not others.

It seems to me what would be better as a federal law would be to require any state/local government to have to register with AirMap and B4UFLY any of their public owned lands (i.e. parks, beaches) were they've enacted laws prohibiting take off/landing within these lands. First make it easier for drone operators to figure out where they can legally fly before allowing state/local governments to simply ban drone flights over both public and private land in their jurisdictions.

 

[vindibona1]

It seems to me what would be better as a federal law would be to require any state/local government to have to register with AirMap and B4UFLY any of their public owned lands (i.e. parks, beaches) were they've enacted laws prohibiting take off/landing within these lands. First make it easier for drone operators to figure out where they can legally fly before allowing state/local governments to simply ban drone flights over both public and private land in their jurisdictions.

So DJI can put up more geofencing? Autel is starting to look better and better.

 

[tlswift58]

We're all probably aware that US Senator Mike Lee from Utah is sponsoring a bill in Congress that would turn over control over all US airspace below 200 feet to state and local governments. Yes a bad idea for drone hobbyists. I read another thread complaining about the San Francisco/Oakland East Bay Regional Park's ban on all drones. It pointed out that this huge local government special district that covers 1500 square miles and spans multiple counties does not show up in AIrMap or B4UFLY. It's noncontiguous in nature - in fact I have a small mile long, half mile wide piece if it right across the street form my house, and its a no fly zone. Another example is Pleasanton California which has banned all drones in its public parks, or Santa Clara County that allows drones in some parks but not others.

It seems to me what would be better as a federal law would be to require any state/local government to have to register with AirMap and B4UFLY any of their public owned lands (i.e. parks, beaches) were they've enacted laws prohibiting take off/landing within these lands. First make it easier for drone operators to figure out where they can legally fly before allowing state/local governments to simply ban drone flights over both public and private land in their jurisdictions.

The "1%'rs" of bad drone pilots are what causes a lot of this unnecessary action from local to fed levels. What are they going to do when Amazon, Walmart, and others start package delivery via drone? Give them an "exemption" simply because of whom they are and the money they float to politicians?

@vindibona1 - should more of these laws / ordinances get passed - do you really think Autel is going to be immune? C'mon man!

Banning / regulating drones affects EVERYONE - not just DJI drones or did I miss that Autel is EXEMPT as well.

If ALL drone pilots don't start acting on this BS, we CAN expect to lose more rights to fly everywhere - not just a certain city, state, or country.

Even with the best of apps on NFZ's - still a lot to be desired, esp when wanting to stay within the rules and taking off / landing just outside of a NFZ. Blue Ridge Parkway is a classic example for NC / VA drone pilots. While the BRP is under the NPS - the NFZ along much of the NFZ is very narrow. In my area many waterfalls and other cool features can be on the fringe or even just outside of the BRP NFZ, which is technically legal to fly / take off / land. Yet, because of the very close proximity to the NFZ - some people may think I may be flying in NPS protected areas, when I'm truly not. That can lead to some people thinking they can take off / land inside the NPS NFZ - which I have seen on several occasions - I mean they were pulled off to the side of the road inside the NFZ and flying - a clear example of what not to do.

I have encountered this app "overlap" issue in many Nat Parks - like Great Smoky Mountains, Grand Tetons, and others. The app says I'm on the fringe, but I can take off / land without exceptions from DJI. I have also had to file an exception in some areas and flown without incident. All of this is a fine line and many here have experienced "rangers and others" whom may not know all the rules or exact "property lines" of those NFZ's and simply stating that you are flying in an NFZ, when you may or may not be doing so.

Too many fingers in the pot trying to stir it and as typical - no overlap or knowledge of what the other hands are doing, so much confusion exists on both sides of the fence.

We have to be our own advocates to fly safely and have more access than what we are losing at a very fast rate. Maybe we need to have a DRONE PAC to lobby politicians on our behalf?

 

[vindibona1]

@vindibona1 - should more of these laws / ordinances get passed - do you really think Autel is going to be immune? C'mon man!

We have to be our own advocates to fly safely and have more access than what we are losing at a very fast rate. Maybe we need to have a DRONE PAC to lobby politicians on our behalf?

I'm going to stay away from the politics of this discussion, but the sad truth is that for many government has lost its moral authority on many levels in many areas replete with double standards. There are just times when laws say one thing but need or common sense say that we should do something else. What I object to is being handcuffed by a surrogate, especially while I am being run over by corporate entities that are willing to spend endless amounts of money for political clout so that laws are written around them or exempt them as you and I have our freedoms further stripped or restricted.

 

[tlswift58]

I'm going to stay away from the politics of this discussion, but the sad truth is that for many government has lost its moral authority on many levels in many areas replete with double standards. There are just times when laws say one thing but need or common sense say that we should do something else. What I object to is being handcuffed by a surrogate, especially while I am being run over by corporate entities that are willing to spend endless amounts of money for political clout so that laws are written around them or exempt them as you and I have our freedoms further stripped or restricted.

And yet you jumped in with both feet! OMG!

If you are not involved in the "politics" of this or any other issue - you will lose more freedoms like you seem to have in the Democratic People's Republic of Cook County.

Simply stating that dJI is the bad guys, while Autel seems to be PRO FREEDOM is 100% absurd. Rules / laws AFFECT everyone they apply to. Autel is not going to get a pass,, while DJI doesn't. Sure, flying the older models may be less restrictive in many ways - yet the rules / laws don't change that aspect. YOU AS A DRONE PILOT ARE TO BE AWARE OF THE RULES. That is not a DJI / Autel issue.

If you and anyone else is not willing to stand / fight these infringements - then may as well stop flying drones and sit on the couch and watch the boob tube.

Way too many cities / states are making rules that DO affect us flying drones reasonably and safely. Much of that deals with IGNORANCE (seems Cook County has A LOT of that in government there) and or hearing of a very small group of outspoken people who don't like drones or whatever they are against - yet they are the squeaky wheel / loudest voice being heard. You can bet Utah Senator Mike Lee probably knows nothing about drones or what drone pilots go thru to learn to fly professionally and recreationally. Just what he has heard on TV or anti-drone advocates.

If YOU and I don't fight - WHO WILL!

 

[PacificSkyDreamn]

I was not intending at all to start a political discussion. Just expressing my frustration that it's hard to figure out where one can fly, even when consulting AirMap and B4UFLY. I'd don't have a problem with local/state governments overseen by elected officials making a decisions on where drones can be flown. It's that the tools we're given as responsible drone operators can be less than helpful in finding a legal place to fly.

So I consult AirMap and B4UFLY looking for a good spot along the Oregon/California coast then spend five hours driving there, only to learn there's a local county ordnance against flying on the empty beach. How hard is it for the county to register their local ban with AirMap and B4UFLY, yet they don't.

 

[DBT_Drone]

We made want to join this org.......seems they are fighting against Senator Lee's bill and fighting for us.

Home - Drone Service Providers Alliance

A united voice for positive change DRONE SERVICE PROVIDERS ALLIANCE Professional advocacy for Drone Service Providers throughout the United States. JOIN OR DONATE welcome to dspa The Drone Service Providers Alliance provides a voice to those who fly drones for a living. Whether a small, medium...

dspalliance.org

 

[Byrdiemann11]

The "1%'rs" of bad drone pilots are what causes a lot of this unnecessary action from local to fed levels. What are they going to do when Amazon, Walmart, and others start package delivery via drone? Give them an "exemption" simply because of whom they are and the money they float to politicians?

@vindibona1 - should more of these laws / ordinances get passed - do you really think Autel is going to be immune? C'mon man!

Banning / regulating drones affects EVERYONE - not just DJI drones or did I miss that Autel is EXEMPT as well.

If ALL drone pilots don't start acting on this BS, we CAN expect to lose more rights to fly everywhere - not just a certain city, state, or country.

Even with the best of apps on NFZ's - still a lot to be desired, esp when wanting to stay within the rules and taking off / landing just outside of a NFZ. Blue Ridge Parkway is a classic example for NC / VA drone pilots. While the BRP is under the NPS - the NFZ along much of the NFZ is very narrow. In my area many waterfalls and other cool features can be on the fringe or even just outside of the BRP NFZ, which is technically legal to fly / take off / land. Yet, because of the very close proximity to the NFZ - some people may think I may be flying in NPS protected areas, when I'm truly not. That can lead to some people thinking they can take off / land inside the NPS NFZ - which I have seen on several occasions - I mean they were pulled off to the side of the road inside the NFZ and flying - a clear example of what not to do.

I have encountered this app "overlap" issue in many Nat Parks - like Great Smoky Mountains, Grand Tetons, and others. The app says I'm on the fringe, but I can take off / land without exceptions from DJI. I have also had to file an exception in some areas and flown without incident. All of this is a fine line and many here have experienced "rangers and others" whom may not know all the rules or exact "property lines" of those NFZ's and simply stating that you are flying in an NFZ, when you may or may not be doing so.

Too many fingers in the pot trying to stir it and as typical - no overlap or knowledge of what the other hands are doing, so much confusion exists on both sides of the fence.

We have to be our own advocates to fly safely and have more access than what we are losing at a very fast rate. Maybe we need to have a DRONE PAC to lobby politicians on our behalf?

Drone PAC. That's not ridiculous. I'd donate.

 

[DoomMeister]

And yet you jumped in with both feet! OMG!

If you are not involved in the "politics" of this or any other issue - you will lose more freedoms like you seem to have in the Democratic People's Republic of Cook County.

Simply stating that dJI is the bad guys, while Autel seems to be PRO FREEDOM is 100% absurd. Rules / laws AFFECT everyone they apply to. Autel is not going to get a pass,, while DJI doesn't. Sure, flying the older models may be less restrictive in many ways - yet the rules / laws don't change that aspect. YOU AS A DRONE PILOT ARE TO BE AWARE OF THE RULES. That is not a DJI / Autel issue.

If you and anyone else is not willing to stand / fight these infringements - then may as well stop flying drones and sit on the couch and watch the boob tube.

Way too many cities / states are making rules that DO affect us flying drones reasonably and safely. Much of that deals with IGNORANCE (seems Cook County has A LOT of that in government there) and or hearing of a very small group of outspoken people who don't like drones or whatever they are against - yet they are the squeaky wheel / loudest voice being heard. You can bet Utah Senator Mike Lee probably knows nothing about drones or what drone pilots go thru to learn to fly professionally and recreationally. Just what he has heard on TV or anti-drone advocates.

If YOU and I don't fight - WHO WILL!

My representatives in both Houses of Congress have heard from me on Senator Lee’s absurd bill. If it passes in either House I will be voting for another representative the next time around.

I am truly wondering who is lining Senator Lee’s pockets when it comes to his absurd ideas for drone laws. With his ideas we would never be able to launch since we can’t throw it 200 feet up to get to flyable altitude.

 

[cgmaxed]

So DJI can put up more geofencing? Autel is starting to look better and better.

I've been converting my drone fleet over to AUTEL because of their policies, or lack of them. When you turn an EVO2 on, all you need to do is wait for the GPS signal and take off. No Questionnaires or telephone confirmations or entering codes to get off the ground. If you don't want to wait for GPS, you can take off in atti mode. The only thing you wait for is the time it takes to turn the drone and RC on. I still use the Mavic Air 2 and Air 2S. One of the reasons I still like them, besides their size, app features and build qualities, is the fact that they are a reminder of the rules.

 

[vindibona1]

I've been converting my drone fleet over to AUTEL because of their policies, or lack of them. When you turn an EVO2 on, all you need to do is wait for the GPS signal and take off. No Questionnaires or telephone confirmations or entering codes to get off the ground. If you don't want to wait for GPS, you can take off in atti mode. The only thing you wait for is the time it takes to turn the drone and RC on. I still use the Mavic Air 2 and Air 2S. One of the reasons I still like them, besides their size, app features and build qualities, is the fact that they are a reminder of the rules.

How do you find the handling characteristics of the EVO II compared to the DJI drones?
I will probably want to purchase another drone in the next year or so, but will certainly wait until the M3 is released and bugs worked out. I would like to bet that Autel will try to keep up somehow. There are certainly some features on the EVO's that I'd like to have. I know that the M2's have sideways sensors, but I don't think they are active all the time. That is a feature that the Air2s should have had.

I have to wonder (maybe I don't) why DJI came out with the Mini 2 and Air2s on the heels of the Mini and MA2? The only think I can think of is additional margin. It probably cost them a few dollars for the upgrades to the earlier versions and charge $100-$300 more for the upgraded models. You know that M3 will probably start at $1800 or more and probably won't cost that much more to build than the M2.

 

[cgmaxed]

How do you find the handling characteristics of the EVO II compared to the DJI drones?
I will probably want to purchase another drone in the next year or so, but will certainly wait until the M3 is released and bugs worked out. I would like to bet that Autel will try to keep up somehow. There are certainly some features on the EVO's that I'd like to have. I know that the M2's have sideways sensors, but I don't think they are active all the time. That is a feature that the Air2s should have had.

I have to wonder (maybe I don't) why DJI came out with the Mini 2 and Air2s on the heels of the Mini and MA2? The only think I can think of is additional margin. It probably cost them a few dollars for the upgrades to the earlier versions and charge $100-$300 more for the upgraded models. You know that M3 will probably start at $1800 or more and probably won't cost that much more to build than the M2.

--How do you find the handling characteristics of the EVO II compared to the DJI drones?-- Well, the EVO2 is heavier and bulkier, so it tends to look a little unstable compared to the Mav2. But, it still very solid and hovers in place well. The Evo2 is not as fast or agile as the M2P. Probably because of it's weight. Even though it seems less stable, the Camera Gimble compensates flawlessly. The camera gimble is also less sensitive to breakage. I use the 8k in daylight to get higher detailed close ups with the digital zoom up to 8x (it works in pic and video modes). The 6k has better color and quality and is better in low light conditions. The cameras outperform the Mav2 pro and zoom. The flight time is also much better. I am getting 8 minutes more time with the EVOs than the Mavic2s. The EVOs sensors are more sensitive than the M2Ps sensors. They sometimes even work at night when there is little ambient light around. The EVO2 can lift much heavier payloads, like lighting systems, than the M2P.

I read an article, can't remember where, on how DJI keeps it's prices so low. They flood the market by selling their products with a LOW PROFIT MARGIN. They purposely try not to make as much money as they could, so they can sell more drones and increase their market share. Because they own so much of the market, they make up for their drones' low profit margins by selling an immense amount of batteries and other accessors. Also, they don't mind undercutting their own products with new products because that too causes increased drone sales, thus gaining higher profits from even more accessories.

Re the Mav2AIR and Air2S. Theses two drones are incredibly agile. They are fast 43mph. And cut through wind almost as well as the heavier M2P. It's practically impossible to lose an Air2 to wind, unless you're really not paying any attn. I love the AIR2S Camera. In my opinion, it's low light performance is just as good as the M2P. Their lift capabilities are good, but are as expected from a smaller drone. They are tough little drones too. Less chance of breaking in a crash. That goes for all smaller form factor drones. The smaller they are, the less chance they have of breaking in a crash.

If you haven't noticed, my fleet has a pattern. 2 Lightweight discrete drones, one good for daylight and one good for low light. and 2 heavy lift drones, one good for High Res Daylight and One good for High Quality daylight and low light. I need the power of the EVO2s to use the heavy lighting systems I use as ground spotlights. The M2P and Zoom Can't handle the weight as well as the EVO2 series drones.

 

[pftarch]

Or, perhaps there is a potential silver lining here.

If the FAA relinquishes authority under 200’, can a local government ban flight over PRIVATE property and under 200’?

Can my town forbid me to fly my drone over my property under 200’?

If it turns out that a Town/City/State can only ban flights under 200’ over PUBLIC property this could be a blessing in disguise. Stay under 200’ over any private property with landowners permission and the FAA may not have any jurisdiction. Fly at night, fly FOV, don’t register, do commercial work without a license and just stay over land you’re allowed to fly over and stay under 200’. And, to make it even more exciting, take off in a town that has “banned” flights (from someone who gives you permission on their, or your, land), scoot up to 201’ and fly all over the “banned” area.

I doubt that the government really wants to allow any Town to make Amazon delivery impossible, so there will have to be some leeway for taking off and landing over PRIVATE property.

Who knows, this could be the best thing that’s happened to our hobby in years!

 

[pftarch]

And there’s more!

I actually skimmed through the proposed bill and noticed the following:

“SENSE OF CONGRESS-It is the sense of Congress that-
(A) in order for landowners to have full enjoyment and use of their land, they must have exclusive control of the immediate reaches of airspace over their property;”

That is directly from the proposed bill, and there is another quote about localities NOT being able to blanket ban “civil” flights. (I am just too lazy to retype it in my phone.)

I don’t have a quarrel with not being able to fly under 200’ over someone’s property who doesn’t want me there, and in my neighborhood when I stray from my yard I tend to fly that high over people’s homes anyways.

Think about the urban applications. Get permission from the owner of a high rise and you can now fly there. (Including at night.) Although I appreciate the LAANC system, the urban zone near me has a 0’ altitude limit where several buildings are over 200’ tall.

Before we freak out over this we may want to see how it could actually BENEFIT us.

Peter T

 

[blabel75]

Drone PAC. That's not ridiculous. I'd donate.

I agree. Does the commercial/recreational drone industry even have an entity to support them like recreational fixed aircraft has AMA?

 

[DoomMeister]

Sorry to disagree, but Senator Lee is smoking some funny stuff and his bill needs to be squashed in committee before it ever reaches the floor in either house. This is nothing more than opening the door to a patchwork quilt of crazy laws and restrictions from one community to another. I’ve already seen what it is like when local governments and entities try to enact restrictive regulations. Thankfully the judge in the lawsuit against the Genesee County Park Commission ruled in favor of the drone enthusiasts. I would hate to see the whole country have to undergo the same Willy-nilly enactment of stupid anti-drone legislation.

 

[vindibona1]

@cgmaxed I appreciate the lengthy and detailed reply. I think I disagree with you on in one area; DJI's margin. They have the scheme down pat. Every upgrade they come out with costs little more to build than the previous model, but they use much of the same techology just adding some inexpensive upgrades and adding hundreds to the sale price. Also they have a great scheme going for them with the care/refresh thing. I would love to know how many folks pay thei $39, $49, $129 premium and never use it while those that do have the premium plus a healthy deductible when they do. Seems like a minor cash cow there. And $150 for batteries (when the M2 batteries lose their life early on)?? Unlike other drone mfrs they don't make their margin in one gulp but in a series of continuing gulps, including after market sales, insurance and increased margin with every new model.

 

[blabel75]

@cgmaxed I appreciate the lengthy and detailed reply. I think I disagree with you on in one area; DJI's margin. They have the scheme down pat. Every upgrade they come out with costs little more to build than the previous model, but they use much of the same techology just adding some inexpensive upgrades and adding hundreds to the sale price. Also they have a great scheme going for them with the care/refresh thing. I would love to know how many folks pay thei $39, $49, $129 premium and never use it while those that do have the premium plus a healthy deductible when they do. Seems like a minor cash cow there. And $150 for batteries (when the M2 batteries lose their life early on)?? Unlike other drone mfrs they don't make their margin in one gulp but in a series of continuing gulps, including after market sales, insurance and increased margin with every new model.

Really the main reason why DJI needs a viable competitor in the marketplace.

 

[DBT_Drone]

Or, perhaps there is a potential silver lining here.

If the FAA relinquishes authority under 200’, can a local government ban flight over PRIVATE property and under 200’?

Can my town forbid me to fly my drone over my property under 200’?

If it turns out that a Town/City/State can only ban flights under 200’ over PUBLIC property this could be a blessing in disguise. Stay under 200’ over any private property with landowners permission and the FAA may not have any jurisdiction. Fly at night, fly FOV, don’t register, do commercial work without a license and just stay over land you’re allowed to fly over and stay under 200’. And, to make it even more exciting, take off in a town that has “banned” flights (from someone who gives you permission on their, or your, land), scoot up to 201’ and fly all over the “banned” area.

I doubt that the government really wants to allow any Town to make Amazon delivery impossible, so there will have to be some leeway for taking off and landing over PRIVATE property.

Who knows, this could be the best thing that’s happened to our hobby in years!

In my state (Nevada) I'm not allowed to fly over homes unless I'm 250 feet or higher, unless I have permission of the property owner.

 

[spudster]

In my state (Nevada) I'm not allowed to fly over homes unless I'm 250 feet or higher, unless I have permission of the property owner.

Who says that? A link to the "law" would be helpful. Here is all I could find on Nevada drone laws - Drone Laws in Nevada (2021) - UAV Coach