Altitude restrictions??

[JimSteadman]

I wanted to do some photography in an area within a restricted altitude due to an airport. The area I wanted to photograph was around the PA State Capitol building. A portion of the Capitol Complex is in the 200 ft zone and the remainder in a 400 ft zone. FWIW, the capitol dome is 272 ft high inside, but I felt a photo from 200 ft was better than nothing. To make sure I was compliant with the law - and because the AirMap maps showing the area indicated that the actual area had 2 quadrants marked as 200 ft and 2 adjacent quadrants at 400 ft, I was prepared to have to go through 4 LAANC requests which would have made it awkward and limited my ability to move around the site.

But when I got there and powered up the drone, (in a 200 ft quadrant) I immediately got a message that I was in a restricted zone and had to keep my altitude below 150M. Since 120M is approximately 400 ft and I cannot fly higher than that anyway, I clicked the box which indicated I accepted those restrictions and happily photographed the area. I have had this happen in other areas as well, but not often. Is this common in other areas?

 

[maggior]

Just because DJI let you fly doesn't mean it was legal. They map out their restrictions differently than what the FAA lays out. The converse can occur as well where the FAA says you can fly but DJI won't let you.

You may also still need LAANC even if DJI just lets you fly.

 

[DJ Wes]

I wanted to do some photography in an area within a restricted altitude due to an airport. The area I wanted to photograph was around the PA State Capitol building. A portion of the Capitol Complex is in the 200 ft zone and the remainder in a 400 ft zone. FWIW, the capitol dome is 272 ft high inside, but I felt a photo from 200 ft was better than nothing. To make sure I was compliant with the law - and because the AirMap maps showing the area indicated that the actual area had 2 quadrants marked as 200 ft and 2 adjacent quadrants at 400 ft, I was prepared to have to go through 4 LAANC requests which would have made it awkward and limited my ability to move around the site.

But when I got there and powered up the drone, (in a 200 ft quadrant) I immediately got a message that I was in a restricted zone and had to keep my altitude below 150M. Since 120M is approximately 400 ft and I cannot fly higher than that anyway, I clicked the box which indicated I accepted those restrictions and happily photographed the area. I have had this happen in other areas as well, but not often. Is this common in other areas?

Yes, this is common.

LAANC and DJI's geofencing have little to do with each other except that they can both occur near airports.

One uses LAANC to gain authorization from the FAA to fly in controlled airspace.

One accepts responsibility to DJI's prompts to comply with DJI's geofenced zones.

Those two things are independent from each other.

 

[BobaFut]

So are you saying you didn't request LAANC? Because you definitely were required to. And the photo above the capitol seems to be "illegal" since that's in the 200ft zone without "further coordination."


Also, did it say "restricted zone" or "authorization zone," because those are very different things. The capitol is in an Authorization Zone, meaning you must receive LAANC authorization to fly there. There is a Restricted Zone nearby though, so maybe that was the warning you got?

 

[JimSteadman]

Thanks for the explanation. I will keep that in mind.

 

[JimSteadman]

So are you saying you didn't request LAANC? Because you definitely were required to. Also, did it say "restricted zone" or "authorization zone," because those are very different things. The capitol is in an Authorization Zone, meaning you must receive LAANC authorization to fly there. There is a Restricted Zone nearby though, so maybe that was the warning you got?

I honestly do not remember what it said. Prior experience was that if I was in a zone requiring LAANC clearance my remote controller immediately shifted to a LAANC application. That did not happen this time.

 

[BobaFut]

I honestly do not remember what it said. Prior experience was that if I was in a zone requiring LAANC clearance my remote controller immediately shifted to a LAANC application. That did not happen this time.

Unfortunately, that doesn't negate the LAANC requirement as the FAA doesn't really care if your controller allows you to fly or not. If you don't get authorization in a zone that requires it, which this is, then it's on you.

I'm not saying that to be a scold, it's just to highlight that you should *never* rely solely on DJI, whether it's the FlySafe site or the Fly app, to ensure your flight is legal.

 

[JimSteadman]

Unfortunately, that doesn't negate the LAANC requirement as the FAA doesn't really care if your controller allows you to fly or not. If you don't get authorization in a zone that requires it, which this is, then it's on you.

I'm not saying that to be a scold, it's just to highlight that you should *never* rely solely on DJI, whether it's the FlySafe site or the Fly app, to ensure your flight is legal.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[Ty Pilot]

I agree with what has been said - we must not equate anything from DJI's geo zones with what the FAA says.

I would add, (not saying the OP did this, just pointing out), in those FAA height-restricted Zones, those altitudes are absolute AGL for everyone, even commercial operators. So if the dome in question was in a 200 foot zone, that is maximum altitude even for 107 certified operators

The 400 foot over and around structures allowance capability of 107 pilots does not apply, that is only available to us as long as it does not put us in controlled airspace, which this would have been.

 

[Xitor]

One area I frequently fly in has 100 foot zone and next to it was 400 foot (all controlled). I would request separate LAANC for each. Weird part is after my 3rd or 4th time of doing that monthly I came back and it was all 400 feet in Aloft.

 

[LoudThunder]

So many are having trouble understanding the difference between FAA's Airspace restrictions and rules and the DJI Geofencing… And so many eloquent explanations have been offered and some folks still do not understand…

Let's put it like this way. Your parents take you and your older brother to the state fair. You want to rider the High-Drone and your mother says go ahead, but when you get to the ride, it says you must be 4' 10" tall and you are only 4' 8"… Your Mom says it's OK, but the Ride Operator says no…

But your older brother wants to ride the Speed-Drone and he's 5' 2" and the height restriction is also 4' 10"… but your Mom says no way, it goes too fast, and she tells your brother to go ride the Tea Cups…

The ride restrictions are one thing and your parents' permission is another, both independent of one another.



So like your Mom telling you that you can fly in Area "B", LAANC (Your Mom…) says OK, but DJI (Ride Operator…) says No…

And Your Mom tells your brother he cannot fly in Area "A", LAANC (Your Mom…) says NO, but DJI (Ride Operator…) says OK…

I hope this helps to clears things up a bit…

 

[Dale D]

I wanted to do some photography in an area within a restricted altitude due to an airport. The area I wanted to photograph was around the PA State Capitol building. A portion of the Capitol Complex is in the 200 ft zone and the remainder in a 400 ft zone. FWIW, the capitol dome is 272 ft high inside, but I felt a photo from 200 ft was better than nothing. To make sure I was compliant with the law - and because the AirMap maps showing the area indicated that the actual area had 2 quadrants marked as 200 ft and 2 adjacent quadrants at 400 ft, I was prepared to have to go through 4 LAANC requests which would have made it awkward and limited my ability to move around the site.

But when I got there and powered up the drone, (in a 200 ft quadrant) I immediately got a message that I was in a restricted zone and had to keep my altitude below 150M. Since 120M is approximately 400 ft and I cannot fly higher than that anyway, I clicked the box which indicated I accepted those restrictions and happily photographed the area. I have had this happen in other areas as well, but not often. Is this common in other areas?

Apart from this discussion which has evolved around whether or not you are able to fly here, are the actual two images you have given to us. I, for one think they are wonderful. It just shows that you really do not have to go very high to capture a great image, and still be legal. The two images are equally wonderful and I have no favorites, but the low light image of the capital was great and the top down of the dome also wonderful.

Dale
Miami

 

[spsphotos]

Find it weird that they have 200' ceiling when the building are over 200' tall. LOL.

 

[BobaFut]

Find it weird that they have 200' ceiling when the building are over 200' tall. LOL.

In Charleston, WV, the downtown is mostly zero grid, but has several buildings upwards of 300 feet AND the downtown is actually *below* the surface level of the airport. So if you fly 400ft AGL in downtown, you would still be at a lower elevation than the airport (it's on a bluff that overlooks the city).

 

[LoudThunder]

in those FAA height-restricted Zones, those altitudes are absolute AGL for everyone, even commercial operators.

I would venture that any rule or regulation issued by the FAA is not set in stone. If a Part 107 License holder were to submit a Waiver to the FAA height-restricted Zone, and the waiver spelled how the operation could be performed safely within the scope of the operation the FAA would approve it.

To apply for a waiver to Part 107, complete a Part 107 Operational Waiver Application in the FAA DroneZone. You can request to fly a drone operations not allowed under part 107 by requesting an operational waiver. These waivers allow drone pilots to deviate from certain rules under part 107 by demonstrating they can still fly safely using alternative methods.

Part 107 Operational Flight Waivers...

For example, if a 500' tower within a Class D Airspace needed to be inspected by Drone, the Waiver would spell out the operational times, equipment, and the coordination with ATC to perform the operation safely (along with a gaggle of other requirements...).

How else do you think Superman gets to fly over people and moving vehicles in Metropolis?
(L L)

 

[LoudThunder]

Find it weird that they have 200' ceiling when the building are over 200' tall. LOL.

Why is that weird, my whole neighborhood is inside a Zero (0) Altitude FAA Flight Restriction Zone and not one of us live in a Subterranean Home. I live in a ranch style (one-story) home; the high-pitch peak of my roof is at about 30' high. Most of my neighbors are in 2-story homes and the trees grow 100' to 120' high… And our neighborhood is within 4NM of Langley AFB and not once have we have a fighter or tanker land in on our street… (LoL back at you…)

 

[BobaFut]

Why is that weird, my whole neighborhood is inside a Zero (0) Altitude FAA Flight Restriction Zone and not one of us live in a Subterranean Home. I live in a ranch style (one-story) home; the high-pitch peak of my roof is at about 30' high. Most of my neighbors are in 2-story homes and the trees grow 100' to 120' high… And our neighborhood is within 4NM of Langley AFB and not once have we have a fighter or tanker land in on our street… (LoL back at you…)

That's the point though. Why can buildings be well above zero feet in a zero-grid area, but a drone can't fly at all (without special permission)? (I understand the rationale, but you have to admit the rules lack consistency and don't make complete sense in their own right)

 

[Ty Pilot]

In those altitude grids, the buildings are never going to move, they're never going to pop up an extra 50 feet accidentally, they can't be blown away with the wind and they're not going to leave when their done. No different than mountains or other terrain.

On the other hand, there has to be some consistency and uniformity to these altitude grids so that we UA pilots can get a clear picture of where we can, and cannot operate. If these grinds where to have different heights that allow for a building's height, can you image what those grids would look like? One height on one side of the street a different height over the street and then a completely different height on the other side of the street. Who could operate within that kind of a grid?

So why not pick the highest point? Because there again, how would you step down the altitude in a consistent manner?

These grids take into the account the proximity to manned aviation and add a buffer as a max altitude for the unmanned aircraft that operate within a particular grid. To make adjustments for every single fixed object, tower or building would be pointless and even more confusing in my estimation.

 

[LoudThunder]

That's the point though. Why can buildings be well above zero feet in a zero-grid area, but a drone can't fly at all (without special permission)?

I only passed my Part 107 Exam last month and have not yet received my actual license. As you can see in the overlay map I included earlier of my "turf" it does not show that the Class D airspace that almost completely encompasses the entire peninsula that I live on with Langley AFB, Patrick Henry International Airport, and Fort Eustis and its field (Helicopters…).

At this moment, I have over 10 approved authorizations (the FAA uses the same form for both a waiver and an authorization…) from the FAA to fly in the various parks, around the area. A while back, when I was still a Recreational Pilot, I requested permission to fly my drone around my property, not to exceed 50'. I live on the very western edge of a zero altitude zone. I can fly my drone up to 400' in the street in front of my home, but if I land in my driveway, I'm back in the "Drone Taxi Zone…"

I included the information that my property has six maple trees that exceed 100' and I will not approach the height of the trees.

The FAA disapproved my request as they said they did not believe that I could complete the flight safely.

I did not pursue the issue as I had planned to acquire my Part 107 License and then apply for commercial purposes (roof inspections and real estate photos…) and decided that the fight would only muddy the waters when I applied to fly with the license…

A while back, I posted a question to see if any Licensed 107 Commercial Pilots had ever applied to fly within the Washington DC NFZ. I have got to believe that the huge almost 3,000 square mile area around DC has had no commercial drone activity for roof inspection, construction inspection, real estate photos, etc… However, I received no replies either way, approved or disapproved…

Getting Permission to Fly in a NOTAM No Fly Zone

Just a quick question about getting an Authorization or Waiver through the FAADroneZone under Part 107 to fly in a No Fly Zone, like the one that circles Washington DC. A new member, who just got their Part 107 lives in Fairfax, VA and it is inside the NOTAM No Fly Zone around Washington DC and...

mavicpilots.com

When I do receive my license, I will apply to fly in my neighborhood and I will for "S%#ts and Grins" apply to perform a roof inspection at some address in the outlying areas of the NFZ.

Wish me Luck…

 

[BobaFut]

In those altitude grids, the buildings are never going to move, they're never going to pop up an extra 50 feet accidentally, they can't be blown away with the wind and they're not going to leave when their done. No different than mountains or other terrain.

On the other hand, there has to be some consistency and uniformity to these altitude grids so that we UA pilots can get a clear picture of where we can, and cannot operate. If these grinds where to have different heights that allow for a building's height, can you image what those grids would look like? One height on one side of the street a different height over the street and then a completely different height on the other side of the street. Who could operate within that kind of a grid?

So why not pick the highest point? Because there again, how would you step down the altitude in a consistent manner?

These grids take into the account the proximity to manned aviation and add a buffer as a max altitude for the unmanned aircraft that operate within a particular grid. To make adjustments for every single fixed object, tower or building would be pointless and even more confusing in my estimation.

Right, that's why I said I understand the rationale...and you need that additional context to make sense of the rules because just saying "drones can't fly at any altitude because objects in the sky would be unsafe in this zone" is clearly not accurate in an area where lots of buildings are higher than "zero."