Birds and drones

[eEridani]

Was going to suggest it would be an easy one to get around, but that would be cheating

Yeah, if the spirit of the rule is for such personal use, it would be fairly ridiculous, and not at all policeable.
Laws that aren't policeable are silly laws.

And why the US FAA wants Remote ID. There are already systems in place that record every voice and data stream that enters and exits the US mainland, all telecom, and most radio traffic the US can intercept. It won't even be a burp in overall data flow required to also capture every bit of data in all drone RID streams. I can see the analysis automated and citations issued as logical next steps to protect the safety of our national airspace.

I'm not really paranoid, but these things are just what people do, and history is full of examples. Look at speed cams.

 

[Meta4]

I'm not really paranoid, but these things are just what people do ..

It's not what the FAA do.
There's no indication that the FAA is at all interested in any of this.
Do you have any idea how few drone flyers have ever been prosecuted?

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I'm not really paranoid, but these things are just what people do, and history is full of examples. Look at speed cams.

At least there are no GPS mandatory fitted to vehicles recording place, time, posed speed limit, and speed being done.
Maybe even red light cycles and where a vehicle is in relation to that.
Imagine how Govcos would love to get that system in ?

I'm certainly not advocating speeding, red light running, or illegal drone flight, but yeah speed cams with low tolerances in some states here is a real pain.
I mean every one may go very marginally over the speed limit very rarely by a few km/hr (ala 400'), and correct themselves . . . have seen police do it many times on normal patrol.
Taking your eyes off the road onto a speedo is not good sense for safety.

Oh gawd, birds and drones to speed cams, I won't discuss it further, promise mods . . . I suppose every thread ever made on any forum could eventually come back to govco and speed cameras ! lol.

 

[seilerbird]

Well I read most of 14 CFR 107 rules, and I see nothing that pertains to me. My RV roof has no gutters, it is 33 x 8 feet and located under a large live oak tree. So no one would even be able to see me flying. I don't need to fly over it just next to it. It is a flat roof so it will take one quick pass from about five feet away from it.

 

[Andrex]

"If a tree falls in the woods, and no one hears it, does it make a sound?"...

 

[xspwhite]

"If a tree falls in the woods, and no one hears it, does it make a sound?"...

No, just vibrations. Ears are needed to turn vibrations into sound.

 

[xspwhite]

Well I read most of 14 CFR 107 rules, and I see nothing that pertains to me. My RV roof has no gutters, it is 33 x 8 feet and located under a large live oak tree. So no one would even be able to see me flying. I don't need to fly over it just next to it. It is a flat roof so it will take one quick pass from about five feet away from it.

My drone was chased and stalked by a pack of large buzzereds the other day. Needless to say, I landed it as fast as I could.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

You can't make this stuff up. I am quoting the FAA website: There is another FAA site document that states emphatically that inspecting your own roof gutters is a Part 107 commercial act.

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

Well, Steve answered my inquiry, and I'm impressed I received a reply virtually US new business hours.

Here it is . . .

-------------
There is only one rule for operating small UAS (under 55 pounds) in the U.S. National Airspace System. That law is 14 CFR Part 107. There is a limited statutory exception (a "carve out") to the law which, under certain circumstances, allows operation for the sole purpose of recreation.

Many people erroneously believe if they are not being directly paid for their flight then they don't need a Part 107 remote pilot certificate. Financial compensation, or the lack of it, is not the determinant for the type of operation you are conducting.

If you want to use your drone to check your own gutters, that may not be purely a recreational activity, but it is innocuous enough.

On the other hand, if your neighbor then asks if you inspect his gutters, now you are performing a service for another party. Or if a gutter cleaning service asked you to provide a "before and after" set of photos for their website, then you governed by Part 107.
-------------

To me that is neither a yes or no, checking own gutters / roof is not purely recreational, but then the reply more or less said the FAA don't really care.

 

[Rich QR]

Well I read most of 14 CFR 107 rules, and I see nothing that pertains to me. My RV roof has no gutters, it is 33 x 8 feet and located under a large live oak tree. So no one would even be able to see me flying. I don't need to fly over it just next to it. It is a flat roof so it will take one quick pass from about five feet away from it.

Well, if you do not have a part 107 license, then of course absolutely none of 14 CFR 107 applies to you yet.

If you don't have a part 107 license, your only route to fly legally is to use 49 USC 44809, the Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft. That allows you to fly without a license, provided you adhere to certain limitations. The limitation in 44809 (a) (1) is "The aircraft is flown strictly for recreational purposes". Those eight words are where we get the distinction between recreational flight that can be done without a license, and non-recreational flight which requires a Part 107 license.

Note that the word "commercial" doesn't appear, neither in Part 107 nor in 44809. It's not that being paid means you must get a license. It's that flying for a reason other than strictly for recreational purposes means you must get a license. The distinction is subtle, because most non-recreational things that most people can think of involve money. But the exchange of money isn't the only way to take the fun out of things.

Just exactly what does "strictly for recreational purposes" mean? Who knows? We don't have a lot of case law on the subject yet. I'm pretty sure that if you printed business cards for "ACME roof inspection service -- drone equipped", and charged money for inspecting people's roof, a reasonable jury would likely say that you were flying for a reason other than "strictly for recreational purposes".

But inspecting your own roof? Hmm. I've done that, and it seemed a bit like a chore. I didn't consider it strictly recreational (I have a Part 107 license). But the first time I did it, it was somewhat fun...

 

[eEridani]

No, just vibrations. Ears are needed to turn vibrations into sound.

But what forest doesn't have animals with ears?

 

[seilerbird]

But what forest doesn't have animals with ears?

A petrified forest.

 

[xspwhite]

But what forest doesn't have animals with ears?

He said no one was there to hear it. I assume that would include anyone including animals.

 

[seilerbird]

Well, if you do not have a part 107 license, then of course absolutely none of 14 CFR 107 applies to you yet.

If you don't have a part 107 license, your only route to fly legally is to use 49 USC 44809, the Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft. That allows you to fly without a license, provided you adhere to certain limitations. The limitation in 44809 (a) (1) is "The aircraft is flown strictly for recreational purposes". Those eight words are where we get the distinction between recreational flight that can be done without a license, and non-recreational flight which requires a Part 107 license.

Note that the word "commercial" doesn't appear, neither in Part 107 nor in 44809. It's not that being paid means you must get a license. It's that flying for a reason other than strictly for recreational purposes means you must get a license. The distinction is subtle, because most non-recreational things that most people can think of involve money. But the exchange of money isn't the only way to take the fun out of things.

Just exactly what does "strictly for recreational purposes" mean? Who knows? We don't have a lot of case law on the subject yet. I'm pretty sure that if you printed business cards for "ACME roof inspection service -- drone equipped", and charged money for inspecting people's roof, a reasonable jury would likely say that you were flying for a reason other than "strictly for recreational purposes".

But inspecting your own roof? Hmm. I've done that, and it seemed a bit like a chore. I didn't consider it strictly recreational (I have a Part 107 license). But the first time I did it, it was somewhat fun...

I have been retired since 1988 and I am doing everything in my power to not even think about getting a job.

 

[rschmid]

Hi - I am new here with my first question. I have a Tactic Air Drone on order and it should arrive sometime next month. I am a retired bird photographer and I am wondering if there are any rules about photographing birds with a drone. I did not buy it to photograph birds, I have other uses, such as inspecting the roof on my RV since I am too decrepit to get up on my roof now. I am guessing that most birds will flee at the site of a drone.

My Portfolio

91 new items · Album by Tom Seiler

goo.gl

In Texas we have a state law that prohibits using a drone to photograph, track or chase any wildlife without a permit. So, check your local laws. They will vary.

 

[Bigsky77]

Hi - I am new here with my first question. I have a Tactic Air Drone on order and it should arrive sometime next month. I am a retired bird photographer and I am wondering if there are any rules about photographing birds with a drone. I did not buy it to photograph birds, I have other uses, such as inspecting the roof on my RV since I am too decrepit to get up on my roof now. I am guessing that most birds will flee at the site of a drone.

My Portfolio

91 new items · Album by Tom Seiler

goo.gl

I’ve had birds chase my Mavic.

 

[JfromMichigan]

WOW! This thread is kind of all over the place (but yet, so timely in my reading...)
- first things first, Im 4/6 of my way thru a 6 pack/Saturday Night, so I make no promises of clarity.
- Second - I just joined today, and posted a picture for my 'banner' of my Hofner Bass... I am NO relation to the poster above who had done the same. lol. 100% fluke on that one.
- Last - I own a window cleaning company, and my Mavic 2 zoom is (partially) used to check gutters, to save us on climbs/find the clogged portions.
- I havent used it much, but when I do, Im open with showing customers my findings, and viewing together in real time.

SO... are you guys saying Im f*cked for doing so?

 

[DoomMeister]

WOW! This thread is kind of all over the place (but yet, so timely in my reading...)
- first things first, Im 4/6 of my way thru a 6 pack/Saturday Night, so I make no promises of clarity.
- Second - I just joined today, and posted a picture for my 'banner' of my Hofner Bass... I am NO relation to the poster above who had done the same. lol. 100% fluke on that one.
- Last - I own a window cleaning company, and my Mavic 2 zoom is (partially) used to check gutters, to save us on climbs/find the clogged portions.
- I havent used it much, but when I do, Im open with showing customers my findings, and viewing together in real time.

SO... are you guys saying Im f*cked for doing so?

Using it to aid in your business places your flights under 14 CFR part 107, thus requiring you to obtain a 107 certification.

I don’t think I would be advertising the fact in an open forum.

 

[JfromMichigan]

Spent the entire day (12 hrs so far= 6 am to 6 pm) reading about, watching videos and researching everything I came across.
- seems like a cash grab, but Im on board with it, as it seems fair, for the most part
(I dont know that I agree that a farmer should have to pay/certify, because he noticed mid flight, that some plants werent getting enough irrigation, and moved his sprinklers to better water them... thats ******.)
- it also seems like a slap/"dont get too big for your britches" from 'the real' aviation community to drone users.'
- if it were truly about safety, it should be mandatory for ALL users.

Personally, I'm excited to work my way thru the certification, and it seems (unnecessarily) easy.

 

[JfromMichigan]

Thanks to @DoomMeister for guiding me where to look. (no joke)
- I had no idea.

 

[AMann]

Hi - I am new here with my first question. I have a Tactic Air Drone on order and it should arrive sometime next month. I am a retired bird photographer and I am wondering if there are any rules about photographing birds with a drone. I did not buy it to photograph birds, I have other uses, such as inspecting the roof on my RV since I am too decrepit to get up on my roof now. I am guessing that most birds will flee at the site of a drone.

My Portfolio

91 new items · Album by Tom Seiler

goo.gl

Intentionally bothering breeding, nesting or feeding migratory birds with a drone in the US is considered as take and can be prosecuted by Fish and Wildlife Service. This law is going to be changed soon which will also include “unintentionally” doing it. Also protected are federally listed as threatened or endangered m, or species of special concern, including many raptors and other birds. Additionally, Florida State may also have their own wildlife protection laws similar to this.

As for why nesting, if you do a flyover and get birds to flush from their nests, even the eggs and chicks can be placed in danger from predators while their parents are away. It’s best to stay away from birds during the breeding season.

Edit: Thomas, just looked at your portfolio and to be honest, as you are an accomplished wildlife photographer, I’m quite surprised you didn’t already know all this and I fear I may have been teaching to the choir! Anyways, I used to do environmental monitoring in my formal career for about 15 years and so I’m quite versed in all the rules above. Hope it’s helpful. You can see my portfolio at the following URL, some were taken at some of my work sites while others were taken while I’m out exploring and enjoying the outdoors: Anthony Mann