Boundary rule breach re drone over whales/dolphins calves

[Cirdan]

This image was recently taken off the coast of Adelaide, South Australia of a drone hovering above a humpback whale and her calf. The regulation in South Australia is no aircraft(including drones) within 300 metres, in front of or above any whale. This image clearly indicates a breach of that rule. A kitesurfer was nearby and was arrested for being too close to the whales however I'm not aware of the drone owner being reported or fined What is the rules regarding drones and whales in other states/countries?
Kitesurfer arrested for whale 'molestation' after allegedly getting too close

 

[dirkclod]

I wonder if you where just out there doing your thing and they surfaced. I can see if you flew out there to take pictures but
the surfer. Was he chasing them or just there by chance. ?

 

[Meta4]

This image was recently taken off the coast of Adelaide, South Australia of a drone hovering above a humpback whale and her calf. The regulation in South Australia is no aircraft(including drones) within 300 metres, in front of or above any whale. .... What is the rules regarding drones and whales in other states/countries?

Many jurisdictions use the same rules they drew up in the late 1970s/early 1980s regarding planes and whales and just classify drones as aircraft.
It's ridiculous to suggest that a little electric drone, has a similar effect on a whale as a helicopter or Cessna.
Your drone has a similar impact to that of a seagull and the whale is about as likely to even notice it.

Why 'Scientific' Permits Make a Mockery of the Drone Whale Laws in Australia - Andy Hutchinson

Drones are not harmful to whales or dolphins, unless ingested, so why all the ******** laws about flying near them?

andyhutchinson.com.au

 

[Cirdan]

I wonder if you where just out there doing your thing and they surfaced. I can see if you flew out there to take pictures but
the surfer. Was he chasing them or just there by chance. ?

It wasn't my drone. I just saw the picture in the news report. I doubt the drone was just there by chance as there were hundreds of people down there watching, apparently. I think there's degree of sensitivity when it's a recently born calf and it's the first time a whale with calf has ventured so close to a metropolitan area in 70 years.
"This is a mum with a newborn calf, a very young calf," she said.
"Special restrictions apply when a calf is present," police said.
'Something special was happening': Whale watchers treated to rare show of mum with newborn calf

 

[Cirdan]

Many jurisdictions use the same rules they drew up in the late 1970s/early 1980s regarding planes and whales and just classify drones as aircraft.
It's ridiculous to suggest that a little electric drone, has a similar effect on a whale as a helicopter or Cessna.
Your drone has a similar impact to that of a seagull and the whale is about as likely to even notice it.

Why 'Scientific' Permits Make a Mockery of the Drone Whale Laws in Australia - Andy Hutchinson

Drones are not harmful to whales or dolphins, unless ingested, so why all the ******** laws about flying near them?

andyhutchinson.com.au

You may have a reasonable point however I don't make the regs and there were hundreds of people watching from the shore so it's not a good look in front of the public if we're trying to improve the public attitude towards the use of drones. Personally, I don't think there would be any problem using a drone with whales and I was tempted to go down there with mine and do some video however I decided it wasn't worth it given it was in the eye of the media and a large public audience.

1. In South Australia regulations apply to the viewing of marine mammals. Regulations require aircraft (including Remote Piloted Aircraft such as drones) to maintain a minimum distance of 300m from whales. Aircraft at the minimum distance must not hover over the animal and whales must not be approached by RPA from the front.
South Australian Whale Watching Guidelines - SA Whale Centre

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I've seen so many drone videos of whales, dolphins and other marine mammals (seals, sealions, etc) up closer than 300m it's not funny.
YouTube is full of them.

The often seem inquisitive and come up to boats, small kayaks, canoes right through to larger whale watching tour boats.
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't even know a drone was near them.

As per the research done, it's believed whales can't hear or sense the sound or presence of a drone while underwater, possibly when breaching for air / surface play.
The link posted by Meta4 in post 3 has links the the scientific studies, if anyone is interested in this.

 

[Cirdan]

Clearly the message here is very clear from everyone, the rules and regs are to be ignored if we feel it's not justified and/or we disagree with them. Happens all the time, everywhere. Don't worry, be happy. I get it!

 

[DoomMeister]

Cirdan,

Judging from the size of the drone in the photo, and the size of the disturbance in the water caused by the whales I strongly suspect that the drone may have been a legal distance from the whales. If the drone was at the same distance away from the camera taking the photo as the whalesit would have appeared much smaller.

If I am wrong in my assessment and the drone was breaking the regulations, then shame on them. They should also be tracked down and fined. The biggest problem with drones and the public perception of them comes from the sensationalist reporting done by the press. Also the public perception that consumer drones have cameras capable of performing like those on military drones instead of like cameras on cell phones.

 

[Meta4]

Clearly the message here is very clear from everyone, the rules and regs are to be ignored if we feel it's not justified and/or we disagree with them. Happens all the time, everywhere. Don't worry, be happy. I get it!

I'm not sure where you got that idea ... no-one has expressed those thoughts.
You're reading things that have not been written.
I simply explained how we ended up with the rules we have.
I'm speaking as a marine biologist who has worked with whales and spent >500 hours observing them closely and someone that has worked in a state government national parks and wildlife service.
What's your background that gives you a particular insight to the issues?

 

[Cirdan]

I'm not sure where you got that idea ... no-one has expressed those thoughts.
You're reading things that have not been written.
I simply explained how we ended up with the rules we have.
I'm speaking as a marine biologist who has worked with whales and spent >500 hours observing them closely and someone that has worked in a state government national parks and wildlife service.
What's your background that gives you a particular insight to the issues?

I humbly apologise if I offended anyone with my insinuations. I have no background at all in marine biology or National Parks and Wildlife. Of course you would have been aware that they're Southern Right whales and not Humpback whales as I mistakenly thought however, I only quoted the rules with regards to using a drone near whales which I thought was breaching a rule that clearly you know much more about than me.
This was, I believe the video from a drone to which I was referring:

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I will say no more on the matter.

 

[Saladshooter]

Cirdan, You are absolutely right. The rules are the rules and we as a community should be bending over backwards to follow them. Almost every day the press jumps on another story of bad drone behavior. The place for change is to try to get the regulations amended.

Meta4 came across a little strongly as we often do on the internet but I believe his point was that that he feels that the rules were written for manned aircraft and could be changed for UAVs because they have a smaller impact on the animals. I don't think he was advocating that we do what we please.

I agree with his assessment that drones have very little impact on whales and think that they might be a good way to study them a little closer with aircraft. I also think it should be limited to professionals. The last thing that this community of people needs is video of a drone crashing into a whale.

Thank you for your post.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

..
The Dept Environment & Energy puts out the Australian National Guidelines for Whale and Dolphin Watching.

https://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/7f15bfc1-ed3d-40b6-a177-c81349028ef6/files/aust-national-guidelines-whale-dolphin-watching-2017.pdf

The diagram on page 16 covers winged aircraft and all drones 300m at closest point (helis and gyrocopters are 500m).
Drones are of course limited to 120m AGL / ASL in this case, so we really can't get any closer than 300m lateral, and not from the front.

I have to say it'd be pretty easy to accidentally come by dolphins or seals sometimes if you're flying over the ocean.
Probably not so a whale, but if you were flying along filming the horizon or a ship it could be possible.
Once aware of such a presence you'd do what one would if a manned aircraft happened along, take steps to get out of the situation safely and quickly.

This was, I believe the video from a drone to which I was referring:

Both of those videos are shot from the shore.
Don't think we'll see the drone video pop up on YouTube anytime soon.

This was, I believe the video from a drone to which I was referring:

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2:48 in that 1st video, looks like a Mavic or copy.
And it does look like it's getting far closer than 300m to the whale.

 

[DronePhotosNZ]

Here in New Zealand the rule is pretty much as per post above but 600 metres radius from an imaginary vertical line above the mammal ( Dolphins / Whales etc ) Had to do my research when a sperm whale beached itself here last year ( It apparently is only the 12th Sperm Whale on record internationally to have ever been refloated and survived )
2x 20t excavators dug a huge trench beside it to right it then they enlarged the hole and towed it out into the bay with a fishing boat on a 1km line

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Out of curiosity, I just looked up the USA rule on this, seems like it's 1000' distance, a little more than 300m.

2x 20t excavators dug a huge trench beside it to right it then they enlarged the hole and towed it out into the bay with a fishing boat on a 1km line

Awesome effort by that team, looks like an adult Sperm Whale ?
Glad it didn't come back in like a lot of rescued beached whale do.

 

[dirkclod]

It wasn't my drone. I just saw the picture in the news report. I doubt the drone was just there by chance as there were hundreds of people down there watching, apparently. I think there's degree of sensitivity when it's a recently born calf and it's the first time a whale with calf has ventured so close to a metropolitan area in 70 years.
"This is a mum with a newborn calf, a very young calf," she said.
"Special restrictions apply when a calf is present," police said.
'Something special was happening': Whale watchers treated to rare show of mum with newborn calf

I didn’t mean to insinuate it was yours just what if you were out flying when they came up. I understand if there where hundreds of people on the beach and they flew out on purpose but it could happen. ?‍

 

[JohnChap]

These distance rules are another example of drone regulations that are over the top. No doubt a left-over regulation from the days of those noisy model aircraft engines. A whale or dolphin wouldn't even notice a Mavic at 30m. 100 or 300m distance - that's just crazy! IMO

 

[Dale D]

This image was recently taken off the coast of Adelaide, South Australia of a drone hovering above a humpback whale and her calf. The regulation in South Australia is no aircraft(including drones) within 300 metres, in front of or above any whale. This image clearly indicates a breach of that rule. A kitesurfer was nearby and was arrested for being too close to the whales however I'm not aware of the drone owner being reported or fined What is the rules regarding drones and whales in other states/countries?
Kitesurfer arrested for whale 'molestation' after allegedly getting too close

View attachment 131534

I am no expert, for sure, but to my way of thinking, I simply cannot buy into the restrictions. Do they have any proof whatsoever that overhead drones affect sea mammals?

I guess I am perplexed, also, because I have been on numerous "Whale Watching" boat tours, and also did a shark cage dive in South Africa where they chummed the great white sharks to attract them to the cage. There were THREE groups of 3 divers each (9 total) who took turns in the cage, for 40 minutes, including me and my wife.

And I should mention, we have been on many African safaris where we interacted closely with all sorts of wild animals, often with cubs or calfs, and nobody complained about it because this type of tourism provides millions of dollars in income to these poor countries. Here are several shots from my travels showing me and my wife in animal encounters Give me a break with this overhead drone stuff. (my wife is the blond lady with the gorilla and that is me in the shark cage).

Dale
Miami

 

[Zbip57]

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[Dale D]

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Beautifully photographed and I am confident it did not disturb the animal at all.

 

[Meta4]

These distance rules are another example of drone regulations that are over the top. No doubt a left-over regulation from the days of those noisy model aircraft engines.

They aren't drone regulations at all.
They are the rules written 40 years ago to deal with real planes and helicopters.
But when drones appeared, they just decided that drones are "aircraft" and therefor must follow the same rules.