Can we stop all the drone hate?

[twickers14]

Good question and tons of responses to consider and enjoy. I fly here mainly on the Bristol Downs which borders the famous Avon Gorge and the spectacular Clifton Suspension bridge and have never had a member of the public approach me in 3 years of flying here-Spark too. It is a very popular place for recreation so the chances are that if they were interested people would come up to talk but I always shoot straight up to a height where the MA2 shouldn’t be audible on the ground. Never take off if anyone is anywhere near me. I just love flying and look upon every flight I make as one that will make me even more familiar with my kit despite the area being so familiar. I took my MA2 to Florida in April/May this year and the only person interested was the doorman at our hotel who popped off to Best Buy to check one out for himself!

 

[JoelP]

It sounds as though you have a particularly difficult location. Have you considered flying very early before most people head to the beach. It might have more interesting lighting?

When I fly in a neighborhood to do a landscaping map or a roof inspection I tell
the owner to notify the near neighbors in advance. Otherwise I am able to fly in remote locations where people aren’t present such as the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) areas in the US. To bad that these options don’t exist for you in Mallorca. We have many parks in California where drones are either prohibited or permits are required at exorbitant prices.

 

[GFields]

@Yaros I would suggest that people who deliberately fly drones in areas where they provoke confrontation help promote "drone hate".

I suspect most folks would have concerns about voyeurs taking photos or video at the beach and I would not be at all surprised if they have legal protection against it, especially if women and or children are topless or nude. Even more so when the camera is a 'spying drone' and its potential is likely over estimated.
If women have got their boy friend or hubby with them then, to be honest, I think you run the risk of getting clobbered, aka Will Smith and Tom Hanks.
Ditto parents protecting kids who are running around naked. I don't know if that still happens but when I was a kid it was quite common for toddlers to be naked on non nude beaches.
Do you think you could walk along a beach with kids, naked or not, and scantily clad women about whilst obviously pointing a camera at them without being accosted?
Have a look in you tube for "perverts at Bondi Beach" you will find quite a few Bondi Rescue videos that show confrontations concerning cameras and women where memory cards have been forcibly destroyed and or police called with the 'photographer' being arrested.
BTW Bondi Rescue is an interesting channel even if it is harrowing at times, it also shows some favourable usage of drones. Though I would suggest much greater usage could be made of them for 'spotting' (sharks and people in suspected trouble) purposes.

I have flown from the odd carpark or two and if there were people about I asked if they had any objections BEFORE I even set up, this was with a P3 and M2P, so not small 'sneaky' drones, and prior to the 150m rule etc. I was quite happy to show them what the camera was capable of and in fact I volunteered to show them what it was capable of. None of them, including those with kids had any objection to my flying. If they had had an objection I wouldn't have flown.
In fact at one car park the kids had a ball playing under the drone, I sent the video of that to the parents.
Yes I have used a DSLR at a beach but it was tripod mounted with a long lens aimed at surfers and I would have been prepared to show the photos captured.

What can we do?
Fly with the thought/s in mind that others may object and that they have rights and expectations too, i.e. consider them before yourself.
Personally if was was concerned about the risk of a confrontation but really wanted to capture a scene I would screen capture what the drone can see so you have an instant replay available for any one who has such concerns and be prepared to show them as best you can the actual video.
But, in general, I would avoid areas where you expect a confrontation to take placeV.

well said!

 

[hiflyer201]

Tell them Nadel’s your uncle

 

[chiangmaicharlies]

I live in Thailand and fly there. Whenever there's people around here, they usually slow great interest, wave and smile. That's Thail people for you.

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

I photographed at Bondi back in 2019 when I visited Sydney. I can see how this would happen. A crowded place and wandering around it taking pictures of women could cause some ruckus. I'm very discrete, use a small mirrorless at the beach and try not to focus on any particular person... the key is to look like you are taking shots of the ocean

Just as a matter of interest, did you happen to notice how many sets of safety flags the life guards set out?
From what I have seen on the 'programmes', several "rips" spaced out along the bay with safe, 'rip-less' areas in between, I imagine they must use one set of flags per safe area. But the life guards seem very fond of saying "swim between the flags". Having several flagged safe areas interspersed with unsafe areas would lead to the question "between which pair of flags should I swim"? I.e. if to-the-left of one particular flag was "safe" the to-the-right of that flag would be "unsafe" yet both "left" and "right" could still be between a pair of flags.

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

I photographed at Bondi back in 2019 when I visited Sydney. I can see how this would happen. A crowded place and wandering around it taking pictures of women could cause some ruckus. I'm very discrete, use a small mirrorless at the beach and try not to focus on any particular person... the key is to look like you are taking shots of the ocean

On a thread related point, hence the separate post, what do you think the reaction would have been, at Bondi, to some one overflying the beach, and I do mean literally the beach - not the water, with a drone,......... good or confrontational?

 

[Tiger64]

Sounds like a good job for a spotter. They can field the questions and keep people at bay while you flying. Maybe they could have a laminated summary of the local regulations to show anyone who approaches as well.
Explaining to people that you need to concentrate while flying but will be landing in a few minutes and can then show them your photos can help defuse things too.

I have found that they ask questions like how fast can it go, or how much does it cost, etc.

 

[ShootingStills]

A bit of about me, relating to this topic:
I've been flying drones for nearly 2 years now. I love everything about it except the people that come arguing that I can't fly here, that they're disturbed by it, and them "threatening" me...
I guess most drone pilots here can relate, or had a drone confrontation at least once. However, people in the EU mostly can relate even more, because here it is more of a problem because the laws are more restrictive, and drones aren't as common as in the US.

I fly in Mallorca, it is a small island in Spain, here drones are very uncommon, you see maybe one drone per year at most, and most drones flown here are flown by tourists that come to the island with drones. There are a couple of local people and companies I know that use drones, but still, the image I'm trying to portray is that it is not common to see drones here.

What I'm tired of:
This really annoys me, but at least every 2 weeks I fly, before I know it, there is an angry person in front of me shouting that what I'm doing is illegal, that they don't want them to be filmed, that they are scared that I'm spying on them, or whatever other excuse they can think of. Okay, these kinds of situations happen all over the place, mostly near beaches and public parks. I don't know who expects privacy in a place like that... I've had 3 people approach me angrily while I'm flying the last 3 weeks.
Yes, most local Spanish people are against drones, if they don't own one they don't understand, and they don't care about the laws, they just make up stupid crap about why it is wrong to fly here or there. Now during it is even more annoying because tourists are also getting angry over drones, some of them try to talk to me in another language, so I can't reply anything back. Other people I know that fly drones here, also have this problem, not only here but all over the world, most common in the EU as I mentioned above.
I know 2 people from US that fly drones, and they don't have drone confrontations as often as I do. Here in Mallorca, when you takeoff in a public location, at least 5 people will look over the drone... all because of my next point:

The misconception of the public:
People that don't have drones think that it has a giant lens to spy on them, or that we - drone pilots, use the drone for bad things only, but they don't understand that the only reason I'm flying near that beach or park is to capture the amazing views.

The real reason this happens:
Most might not agree with me here, but I blame the media for this, because they are spreading only bad news of drones, like when they crash against an airplane, or the White House, or when someone gets fined for flying illegally. This sets a bad image of drones in normal people that don't know as much as we do about drones.
Think about this for a minute, how many times have you seen positive news about drones on media, like when a drone saved someone, I can probably count on the fingers of one hand, and now think about how many times you have seen negative news about drones, much, much more often, at least in Spain and the EU, I don't live in the US, and don't know how the situation is there, however I can say that here it is not great. Spanish media even went as far as faking a drone accident as a joke, but by many it was perceived like something serious that really happened.

We can still fix this!
When someone approaches me angrily about me flying the drone, I try to explain why he/she is wrong, the reason I'm flying, and what are the rules and regulations. Sometimes the person just doesn't want to cooperate, in this case I just leave, because there is no point in arguing with someone like that, really. If we - as a drone community try to spread good words about drones to people that hate them now, that try to blame you just for flying over their house, and try to form a positive mindset about the topic, maybe we can minimize drone hate!

So... what's YOUR opinion about this? Do you agree or disagree? I would be happy to hear your point of view!

A message to the mods: If you find this thread inappropriate, please contact me directly before deleting, I'm happy to resolve any issues and disagreements. Just don't delete this anonymously, please. Thanks!

I remember when I went to Barcelona for the first time shooting images of street, travel and landscape and I read up on all the rules and regs… in Spain it’s not permitted to take photos or publish photos of other people without their consent.

They have a right to their own image etc even in a public place.

This is probably a factor in their dislike for your drone. Maybe it’s best to just smile and be polite and show the angry person a few photos, ideally not of them

 

[bmcelya]

I do have a different approach, one that has worked really well for me.
I never try to win the Argument , but I what I do is Frame the Situation in a way that gives me the edge after years of Confrontations.

The first thing I say to them no matter what non sense there saying is I AM WELL AWARE , than the next thing they say if you know this why are you flying.

My response is always the Same : I am flying this area to see if its an acceptable area for Search an Rescue with a drone. This changes things quickly. This takes care of 9 out 10 encounters as it catches them off guard .

I than go into the Number of sats I am connected to, the speed that i can fly and just have a merry time with it.

I also let them know I will be flying in Different Weather Environments as well as with heavy winds.

My only exception is the Cops , if they ask me to stop flying because they are getting reports , I finish the flight and land and walk away to fly another day.

I also find that flying from inside of my car has really isolated the people that come up to me at the pier. It helps if your drone looks like a search and Rescue drone as well.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain. Land on the Water , and Search and Rescue.
View attachment 151154

<<< My response is always the Same : I am flying this area to see if its an acceptable area for Search an Rescue with a drone. This changes things quickly. This takes care of 9 out 10 encounters as it catches them off guard. >>>
———————
That a pretty good ploy Phantomrain, but is it deceitful? Even still, I may use it if cornered, though I don’t have any SAR credentials. I haven’t done it yet, but I plan on distilling the important 107 rules to a full page and have several copies on hand, using language understandable by non-pilots. If challenged while in the air I will cordially request the person wait until the mission is over and I have a chance to land. If the person gets testy, I’ll land asap. Once on the ground I will explain that I have a license and permission to fly in this area. Here’s my license, here’s the waiver, and here’s a copy of the more important FAA rules that I am required to fly under. I’m okay with involving the police, but it’s all going to take awhile and the officer is going to know the same rules as me. Would you like for me to show you how a drone works? Here, watch the screen and we’ll go for a quick spin………..

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

On a thread related point, hence the separate post, what do you think the reaction would have been, at Bondi, to some one overflying the beach, and I do mean literally the beach - not the water, with a drone,......... good or confrontational?

Since no reply as yet, Bondi is ok to fly outside NFZs for SYD airport.
If visiting Sydney, or indeed if I was local, I'd consider flying there but using common sense and following CASA rules.

It'd be like any busy as heck place, and best flown at early light, blue / golden hours for the sunrise footage / photos.
Early, perhaps flying from a safe spot at either northern or southern ends, carefully watching for people (probably there would be fellow land based photographers) below.

During the day when you see the crowds, wow for sure avoid that, totally confrontational.

Edit - FWIW, sunset / late pm, there are still crowds there way into twilight, when drone flight for recreational (and commercial without waiver) is not allowed, so sunrise is the best bet.

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

as yet, Bondi is ok to fly outsi

Going by what I have seen on Bondi Rescue I am really quite surprised that they don't use drones for shark spotting, especially since they have called in the police helicopter for that. Ditto 'body' spotting when they are panicing about possibly having lost someone.
I would guess they could get a drone over head much more quickly than the police helicopter can get there and if necessary they could bring the drone back once the chopper approached.

 

[Yaros]

in Spain it’s not permitted to take photos or publish photos of other people without their consent.

I think this changed now. I'm not sure but what I know is that you are allowed to take photos of people if they know that they are being filmed, and if they see a drone hovering they assume that it is recording. You still can't publish photos of people without their consent though, I have done it on YouTube and gotten away with it, like I will not go and blur everyone's face in editing...

 

[Yaros]

I remember when I went to Barcelona for the first time shooting images of street, travel and landscape

Oh, and speaking of Barcelona, it is a no-fly zone, and recently they introduced a system called "Kuppel" which is basically Aeroscope but worse, because they can take over control of your drone... However, when I was there the last time I managed to see a Mavic Air 2 taking off from a public place

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Going by what I have seen on Bondi Rescue I am really quite surprised that they don't use drones for shark spotting, especially since they have called in the police helicopter for that. Ditto 'body' spotting when they are panicing about possibly having lost someone.
I would guess they could get a drone over head much more quickly than the police helicopter can get there and if necessary they could bring the drone back once the chopper approached.

Pretty sure they do use drones for increasing aerial tasks.

Year ago they started playing with dropping inflatable 'noodle' type rescue devices (edit, they are really refined now), dropped to a swimmer in distress to help them while a lifesaver went out on a paddle ski, jet ski, or inflatable dinghy.

Obviously from the air you can easily see sharks etc quite easily when the water is relatively calm.
Likewise a submerged body in calm water, the darker shape of a swimmer standing out would be really good to hover a drone overhead while a rescue paddler goes to the spot.

Calm water for these other tasks are the key to those benefits.
Most times there will be waves, white caps, sand disturbed, etc, that interfere with those 'through water' aerial views.

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

Would I be correct in translating the quotations as follow?

I'm not sure but what I know is that you are allowed to take photos of people if they know that they are being filmed, and if they see a drone hovering they assume that it is recording.

In the above you are stating that you know that legally you can in public places in Spain take photos/video of people in those places providing that those people are aware that they are being photgraphed/fimed..........?
Providing people in such a place see the drone they somehow KNOW, note know, not SUSPECT, that they are being photographed/filmed............?

Do you make any effort to tell them they are being photographed/filmed?
What of those people who are unaware of the drone, how are they supposed to KNOW they are being filmed........?

You still can't publish photos of people without their consent though, I have done it on YouTube and gotten away with it, like I will not go and blur everyone's face in editing...

You are saying that you know that legally you need their permission to publish their images but that you do not bother to get that permission and make not attempt to hide theirfaces etc. that you are therefore openly, deliberately and knowinly breaking the law as you believe it to be.....................?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Or, as I would summarise those points, you believe to law to be ab&c but you go ahead and use the drone in a way that deliberately and knowingly breaks your understanding of those laws.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

All this is in a thread, started by you, which complains about the fact that the general public has a negative outlook on drones, and asks how this can be changed. Whilst at the same time you are seemingly doing everything you can to annoy the general public and to enhance the general pubic's dislike of drone.

Am I the only person that thinks your flying and attiude is precisely the sort of flying and attitude that got/gets drone-use the negative perception in the first place?

 

[shb]

I'm American but I live in the Philippines. I've never been confronted by a local. Had some kids throw rocks at my drone. One foreigner flipped me off when I was shooting his hotel. One thing you could do is take off away from people, maybe behind a building or bush, and stay high. If they can't see you they can't *****. If you know you're legal, tell them to call the cops.

 

[Yaros]

Do you make any effort to tell them they are being photographed/filmed?

That is completely unnecessary from my point of view. I will not go to a beach and disturb everyone as they're having fun, and tell them that they are going to be filmed. Do you think people seriously do that before taking a photo of the beach with their phone, or record a video, absolutely not!

What of those people who are unaware of the drone, how are they supposed to KNOW they are being filmed........?

For the people that are unaware, they aren't being filmed close enough to distinguish themselves later watching the video.

You are saying that you know that legally you need their permission to publish their images but that you do not bother to get that permission and make not attempt to hide theirfaces etc. that you are therefore openly, deliberately and knowinly breaking the law as you believe it to be.....................?

Not my point here. No faces will be seen when flying at 50 meters high (assuming it isn't the Mavic 3 with tele lens), try it, take a video with the drone hovering at 60-100 meters high, see how much detail it is, and then adding YouTube compression and stuff.

Besides, No one cares! People who watch my drone videos or any other drone videos on YouTube probably will not complain about their face in the video, because either it will not be seen, or it will be seen for like 2 seconds where I'm flying from 20 to 50 meters with my drone, that's like nothing. In roughly 2 years of making drone videos on YouTube and Instagram, never received complaints about that, I only receive complaints during the flight, most of them NOT because of privacy but mostly noise and the fear that the drone will fall on them or something similar.
AND I'm happy to resolve any issues, if someone asks me to take down the video, I will do that.

And hey @Yorkshire_Pud, I don't want to keep arguing with you about this. You have a different point of view, I respect it, however I'm telling you already that I'm not like that, and I will not go and ask for everyone's permission before taking off in a public spot like a park or beach. And also, I think that's not the reason situations like these happen, instead they happen because of the misinformation of the public.

 

[Yaros]

One thing you could do is take off away from people, maybe behind a building or bush, and stay high.

As I already mentioned, I tried that, however I prefer to not do that because people feel safer when they know who is piloting the drone. That's just the way I think. I know some people prefer to hide during their flying, that's just not me, and also while doing that the signal is just awful, even when you're under a tree.

 

[umanbean]

Over time, the problem of drone hate will dissipate... just as there are no more Horseless Carriage hater's these days.

Can we stop all the drone hate?​

No... and who is 'we' anyway?... the readers of this thread, all the members of this forum, all drone pilots of the world - united to spread the good word?

It is what it is...