Detained by Police, Threatened with Arrest!

[cammyjams]

Definitely clickbait but the replies are priceless.
Hello everyone, My name is Cameron and I live in Las Vegas and I am a recent PI 107 grad. I am a professional HDR photographer who’s spent the past 6 weeks since passing the test learning the rules about flying here and using Aloft on my laptop to gain access to locations that I’ve only been dreaming about for 15 years. Don’t mistake my newness (is that a word?) to the sUAS world for ignorance of a regulatory process.

Here are are the facts from someone on the ground right here who’s doing it, right now.

A little history.

After the October 1st 2017 shooting, Metro began a joint task force called ‘Fusion Watch’.
Google it, this is not mumbo jumbo, it’s real, it’s turned on right now and they are definitely NOT messing around.

Fusion Watch is an anti terrorism joint task force comprised of 15 Federal, State and Local agencies formed to monitor public spaces and activity using available technology. These technologies include but are not limited to: Traffic cameras which can also use facial recognition and license plate readers, gunshot detectors (triangulating microphone arrays), custom bots scouring social media, radio communications and sUAS activity. The agencies involved include FBI, ATF, DOJ, DOD, The US Military, NASA, FCC, DEA, NSA, State Police, Local Police and you guessed it: The FAA among others.

This isn’t BS I made up wearing my tinfoil hat in my moms basement or that I found on wack-a doo.com, it is real. It is on and they do see a lot of what is going on around our resort corridor and elsewhere in our community.

As a resident who had friends at The Harvest Festival I think this is a very, very good thing.

Privacy issues and conspiracies aside, this is about public safety.

Regarding sUAS operations and this has nothing to do with RID mind you. Any drone, regardless of date of manufacture, brand, home built or not is emitting RF signal the moment it is turned on. Take that RF signal no matter how low in wattage and put it several hundred feet overhead in clear space and it is now ‘visible’ for miles.

As I am still new to the drone community I have had to learn the rules about legally flying here and it’s a ******* mess. Your experience may vary.

Ask 15 LEO’s for example “can I fly at ‘___’ ?“ and you will get 15 different answers. I know because I did.

They are not drone experts nor should they be. But we should be.

Compound that confusion with all of the would be experts online and it’s easy to see why so many people just say ‘eff this’ and go rogue. Searching google for the rules is even worse because most of the info you find is either simply wrong or sorely outdated. I’m not even addressing the OP, I’m talking to anyone else considering flying here.

Depending on your location, time of day and intent you may be approached by LE faster than you would think.

2 nights ago I was legally flying in 100’ grid at 400’. It took them FOUR MINUTES to dispatch, respond and approach me on location. As I am 107 and had both my paperwork and my Laanc/Aloft approval printed and in my possession they called it in, and 30 seconds later I was good to go. We then spent the next 5 minutes talking about how cool these things are and ‘how is the camera?’ etc. Once they left I put a fresh battery in and went back up for more legal, safe fun.

Last night the exact same thing happened again in 100’ grid this time at 200’, under sightseeing helicopters no less.

About 5 minutes from launch to contact. BAM.

The responding officer was at first a bit uptight having dealt with so many “I know my rights” idiots over the years, but I’m not one of them. I quickly landed safely, presented my papers, deescalated the situation, thanked him for his service (sincerely) and was told to have a nice night and fly safe. We then spent the next five minutes discussing how WE (the sUAS community) can help to spread the word and take some load off our overworked public servants. Which resulted in this.

In passing I was then asked as a courtesy to contact Fusion Watch before a mission so that they don’t dispatch and waste valuable resources tracking my dumb *** down every time. You can find that information online.

I have now done this and am in communication with them. I have another mission this evening at a very tricky, potentially hazardous, totally legal and extremely visible location. Fusion Watch now has my temp pilot certificate, registration, SN #’s of all of my hardware and I’m sending them screen shots of my Laanc /Aloft approvals as well.

I don’t want them rolling up on me again, they have way better things to do.

So.

Can you fly here? Yes. Can it be a bit complicated and overwhelming (again I’m new)? Yes. And don’t forget the DJI Geofences either if you’re using that brand.

None of us who live here or elsewhere want another Oct 1 or worse. Personally I am grateful that someone is watching and listening and I intend to be a part of the solution. Every sUAS operator who breaks the rules is only forcing more regulation upon those of us who don’t and our sUAS community as a whole. This is nationwide, what you do in Cleveland affects us here in Las Vegas and visa vera.

Act pro, be pro, good to go.



Thanks for reading and call your moms.

 

[DronyCali]

20 years here.... its absolute garbage...(in addition to the amendment violations you cite..) They would be violating his civil rights with the order of events in which the fictitious writer describes.. . It does not take an old crusty leo like myself and vegasdronepilot to spot.. That is learned in the academy. Sounds like the original complainant watched too many sovereign citizen videos.

Ummm, it did happen. And if you don't think cops violate people's rights on a daily basis you don't have a working brain.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Not a lawyer here. Once he threw the controller in the car I would have though the cops would need a warrant or claim exigent circumstances to get the controller.

There were. There was a drone in flight with no one controlling it. More than enough justification to enter the car and get the controller and bring the drone back and land, if the officer was capable, or hand it to the pilot and order him to do the same.

I'm not defending any of the jackbooted behavior by any of the authorities here (private security or LEO). I'm addressing specifically the deliberate abandonment of control by the pilot, which is inexcusable, and any firm enforcement behavior by authorities in that regard.

 

[DronyCali]

There were. There was a drone in flight with no one controlling it. More than enough justification to enter the car and get the controller and bring the drone back and land, if the officer was capable, or hand it to the pilot and order him to do the same.

I'm not defending any of the jackbooted behavior by any of the authorities here (private security or LEO). I'm addressing specifically the deliberate abandonment of control by the pilot, which is inexcusable, and any firm enforcement behavior by authorities in that regard.

Definitely clickbait but the replies are priceless.
Hello everyone, My name is Cameron and I live in Las Vegas and I am a recent PI 107 grad. I am a professional HDR photographer who’s spent the past 6 weeks since passing the test learning the rules about flying here and using Aloft on my laptop to gain access to locations that I’ve only been dreaming about for 15 years. Don’t mistake my newness (is that a word?) to the sUAS world for ignorance of a regulatory process.

Here are are the facts from someone on the ground right here who’s doing it, right now.

A little history.

After the October 1st 2017 shooting, Metro began a joint task force called ‘Fusion Watch’.
Google it, this is not mumbo jumbo, it’s real, it’s turned on right now and they are definitely NOT messing around.

Fusion Watch is an anti terrorism joint task force comprised of 15 Federal, State and Local agencies formed to monitor public spaces and activity using available technology. These technologies include but are not limited to: Traffic cameras which can also use facial recognition and license plate readers, gunshot detectors (triangulating microphone arrays), custom bots scouring social media, radio communications and sUAS activity. The agencies involved include FBI, ATF, DOJ, DOD, The US Military, NASA, FCC, DEA, NSA, State Police, Local Police and you guessed it: The FAA among others.

This isn’t BS I made up wearing my tinfoil hat in my moms basement or that I found on wack-a doo.com, it is real. It is on and they do see a lot of what is going on around our resort corridor and elsewhere in our community.

As a resident who had friends at The Harvest Festival I think this is a very, very good thing.

Privacy issues and conspiracies aside, this is about public safety.

Regarding sUAS operations and this has nothing to do with RID mind you. Any drone, regardless of date of manufacture, brand, home built or not is emitting RF signal the moment it is turned on. Take that RF signal no matter how low in wattage and put it several hundred feet overhead in clear space and it is now ‘visible’ for miles.

As I am still new to the drone community I have had to learn the rules about legally flying here and it’s a ******* mess. Your experience may vary.

Ask 15 LEO’s for example “can I fly at ‘___’ ?“ and you will get 15 different answers. I know because I did.

They are not drone experts nor should they be. But we should be.

Compound that confusion with all of the would be experts online and it’s easy to see why so many people just say ‘eff this’ and go rogue. Searching google for the rules is even worse because most of the info you find is either simply wrong or sorely outdated. I’m not even addressing the OP, I’m talking to anyone else considering flying here.

Depending on your location, time of day and intent you may be approached by LE faster than you would think.

2 nights ago I was legally flying in 100’ grid at 400’. It took them FOUR MINUTES to dispatch, respond and approach me on location. As I am 107 and had both my paperwork and my Laanc/Aloft approval printed and in my possession they called it in, and 30 seconds later I was good to go. We then spent the next 5 minutes talking about how cool these things are and ‘how is the camera?’ etc. Once they left I put a fresh battery in and went back up for more legal, safe fun.

Last night the exact same thing happened again in 100’ grid this time at 200’, under sightseeing helicopters no less.

About 5 minutes from launch to contact. BAM.

The responding officer was at first a bit uptight having dealt with so many “I know my rights” idiots over the years, but I’m not one of them. I quickly landed safely, presented my papers, deescalated the situation, thanked him for his service (sincerely) and was told to have a nice night and fly safe. We then spent the next five minutes discussing how WE (the sUAS community) can help to spread the word and take some load off our overworked public servants. Which resulted in this.

In passing I was then asked as a courtesy to contact Fusion Watch before a mission so that they don’t dispatch and waste valuable resources tracking my dumb *** down every time. You can find that information online.

I have now done this and am in communication with them. I have another mission this evening at a very tricky, potentially hazardous, totally legal and extremely visible location. Fusion Watch now has my temp pilot certificate, registration, SN #’s of all of my hardware and I’m sending them screen shots of my Laanc /Aloft approvals as well.

I don’t want them rolling up on me again, they have way better things to do.

So.

Can you fly here? Yes. Can it be a bit complicated and overwhelming (again I’m new)? Yes. And don’t forget the DJI Geofences either if you’re using that brand.

None of us who live here or elsewhere want another Oct 1 or worse. Personally I am grateful that someone is watching and listening and I intend to be a part of the solution. Every sUAS operator who breaks the rules is only forcing more regulation upon those of us who don’t and our sUAS community as a whole. This is nationwide, what you do in Cleveland affects us here in Las Vegas and visa vera.

Act pro, be pro, good to go.



Thanks for reading and call your moms.

That's the problem. Cops do NOT know drone laws. In fact, they don't know many laws. When I asked the cops about specifically what criminal statutes I violated, all their faces went blank and they instantly got on their cell phones researching drone laws. That right there tells you they have no idea what the laws are. Regardless of what the laws say, the cops simply did not want a drone flying around.

Did the cops have a legit concern? Sure and I cooperated and was nice to them. The plain clothes cops were nice and professional; the off duty cop security guard was a hot headed powder keg.

 

[Droning on and on...]

I was in compliance with all Fed laws. I asked the same question on another board as well. State level cops cannot enforce federal laws unless the fed laws provide as such.

No, as soon as you tossed the controller on the seat, you were in violation of several.

 

[DronyCali]

No, as soon as you tossed the controller on the seat, you were in violation of several.

Fair point, however the drone was in return-home mode and was hovering above my head doing a landing just as I threw the controller on the seat. Plus I was scared shitless being surrounded by the armada.

 

[Droning on and on...]

That's the problem. Cops do NOT know drone laws. In fact, they don't know many laws. When I asked the cops about specifically what criminal statutes I violated, all their faces went blank and they instantly got on their cell phones researching drone laws. That right there tells you they have no idea what the laws are. Regardless of what the laws say, the cops simply did not want a drone flying around.

Did the cops have a legit concern? Sure and I cooperated and was nice to them. The plain clothes cops were nice and professional; the off duty cop security guard was a hot headed powder keg.

You avoid addressing the serious operational and legal mistake of abandoning control of an aircraft in flight.

That was a serious mistake. Far more so than simply flying in a restricted area, which for sake of argument let's take your word you were not.

It doesn't matter how well cops know the regulations, you are supposed to know them. Chucking that controller in the car was stupid and reckless, and I hope you have the sense to see that, and the character to admit what a huge mistake it was and never do it again.

 

[DronyCali]

You avoid addressing the serious operational and legal mistake of abandoning control of an aircraft in flight.

That was a serious mistake. Far more so than simply flying in a restricted area, which for sake of argument let's take your word you were not.

It doesn't matter how well cops know the regulations, you are supposed to know them. Chucking that controller in the car was stupid and reckless, and I hope you have the sense to see that, and the character to admit what a huge mistake it was and never do it again.

Understood but at the time having a bunch of squad cars shwoosh in and surround you with a hot headed cop screaming at you and throwing you against a car you know your mind isn't working 100% rational.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Fair point, however the drone was in return-home mode and was hovering above my head doing a landing just as I threw the controller on the seat. Plus I was scared shitless being surrounded by the armada.

I get it. I'd probably wet my pants.

At the same time, you have a responsibility as a pilot. If attacked, you certainly have a right to drop the controller and defend yourself. In this situation, you weren't, but rather felt threatened (understandably) and reacted.

What you should have done was recognize these were officials and were not going to attack you or do anything when you tell them you need to bring the drone back and safely land. I have no doubt they would have allowed that before continuing the confrontation.

 

[tuxon64]

Sound like pigs being pigs

 

[MaxE1955!]

I strongly suspect this is clickbait, but given reasonable doubt you still need education in lawful drone operations.

From your description you were breaking at least one rule and that is flying beyond Visual Line of Sight. At 1/2 mile away most DJI drones would not be visible to the naked eye.

A recreational pilot now has to follow the rules of a Community Based Organization and I am not aware of any that allow you to fly over crowds such as the fair.

If this story is true you have a case for assault and battery by the security guard that manhandled you before the uniformed police arrived.

If this thread goes off the rails it will be closed down. So everyone measure your responses to this thread.

Wow, a real doubting Thomas.

 

[JBJO]

It turns out the 'security guard' was an off duty cop and therefore still have peace officer power. As the controller was in plain sight on the seat of my car, that established probable cause and a warrant is not needed. Cops can search your car if they see evidence of a crime in plain sight (so says the US Supreme Court).

WRONG ! We are forbidden from working for ANY security guard company off duty.. The only off duty we can do in a security capacity is for the agency we work for in our uniform (The agency gets a monetary piece of the pie for training us and using their uniform and equipment) but to work for another security company off duty is a huge no no .. Liability liability liability ..

 

[cammyjams]

LE aren't lawyers. They enforce the law as they perceive them in that moment. 99 out of 100 times it's how WE act in the first 15 seconds that determines THEIR actions. These are human beings too.

Last night my interaction went something like this.

LE pulls up with his lights on gets out of car and walks over to me, he’s pissed.

Him: Land the drone right now
Me: Hello officer I will land my aircraft right now (I hit RTH which took it right over traffic and people but I was following a direct order from LE), is there a problem?
Him: We got a call, you’re not allowed to fly here, land the drone.
Me: Please allow me to land my aircraft (wording), I’m going to put it down right over there (points to empty stretch of sidewalk across the side street)
Him: Land it right here (in a crowd, who were by now convinced that I was going to jail, I wasn’t)

As I brought in closer he quickly realized that this was not the best course of order.

Him: Okay land it over there

I landed it, we walked over and I powered it and the controller down.



Me: Okay, hello again, I am an FAA part 107 certified drone pilot and I have written federal authority to fly in this airspace this evening. What seems to be the problem? (notice the exact wording there)
Him: (starting to clam down) We got a call, I need to see your paperwork.
Me: No problem, here is my ID, and right here in my bag are my other documents, may I get them for you?
Him: Go ahead (I watched as his hand slid over near his sidearm)
Me: Here you go, this is my pilots license, here is my drone registration, and this is my Federal Approval to be in this airspace this evening. Fusion was supposed to know all of this and I have an email from them on my phone from 2 hours ago, would you like to see that?
Him: Fusion? (as in how does this guy know to use that word?) hold on a second. (now he’s chilling out) 30 seconds goes by while he walks away and talks to them on radio. He returns with my documents.

Him: (by now he’s pleasant) Sorry about that, you understand that we have to respond, you’re good to go, have a nice night.
Me: Thank you officer “___” I really appreciate that and I appreciate everything you guys do. I know you must get a lot of dips**ts around here flying these things and I never want to be a part of that problem.
Him: You have no idea, what is wrong with people?
Me: People suck

As this was just a recon flight for a future shoot I packed it in and left for another location, my third of the evening. At that third location several cruisers rolled by checking me out but none stopped. By this time which was like 1:00 am everyone had to be aware that I was legally operating in the airspace. I don’t have to get hassled and can practice my craft, they don’t have to deal with some guy and his drone. WIN-WIN.
Kindness counts.

 

[VdoMemorie]

Greetings I just went out to do a short Waypoint flight with a little drizzle but the sunset was great pinkish and fusha.
My DJI Mavic 3 classic suddenly would not let me take off stating I'm in a Authorization Zone. No crowd or people just me in front of my property !
Time 8PM

 

[DoomMeister]

That's the problem. Cops do NOT know drone laws. In fact, they don't know many laws. When I asked the cops about specifically what criminal statutes I violated, all their faces went blank and they instantly got on their cell phones researching drone laws. That right there tells you they have no idea what the laws are. Regardless of what the laws say, the cops simply did not want a drone flying around.

Did the cops have a legit concern? Sure and I cooperated and was nice to them. The plain clothes cops were nice and professional; the off duty cop security guard was a hot headed powder keg.

It is pretty obvious you didn’t know all the laws you were supposed to abide by or you would not have flown your aircraft beyond VLOS, and over a crowd at an outdoor venue.

It does not take a federal LEO to enforce a federal law/regulation. This is why the FAA has published this https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/f...Basic_Law_Enforcement_Response_Drone_Card.pdf.

 

[DoomMeister]

Greetings I just went out to do a short Waypoint flight with a little drizzle but the sunset was great pinkish and fusha.
My DJI Mavic 3 classic suddenly would not let me take off stating I'm in a Authorization Zone. No crowd or people just me in front of my property !
Time 8PM

Did you check for TFR’s before trying to takeoff? I believe you will find a VIP TFR in place.

 

[DoomMeister]

Wow, a real doubting Thomas.

When you read enough of the same type of uninformed drone pilots posts you kind of get that way. You fly illegally you can expect to be approached sooner or later.

Thomas was my grandfather and one of his sons that was a LEO. I am not a Thomas.

 

[Melvoid]

I'm thinking that the physical stuff from the rent-a-cop alone is worth something. He has no right to get physical... maybe at all... but at least not until you start something physical. Rent-a-Authority

 

[PunaPhantom]

And to be clear: We shoot tons of public events for our clients (shopping centers) with drones and ground based - "blur faces" ??? In public there is "No reasonable expectation of privacy" - Imagine if your premise was true... at a national football game or parade - the tv station would have to go around 60,000 spectators and get signed waivers... ALSO they are called "waivers" to fly over people and you have to meet all the requirements. The FAA does not issue "licenses" you are granted a "certificate to operate as an UAS pilot"... sorry to be so picayune but it's all in the details - especially in this day and age.

And the issue of BVLOS... I guarantee you almost EVERYONE flies BVLOS as defined by the statutes... A learned prof did a controlled study... using a Mavic Pro VLOS in the daytime is around 500' at night it's 85'...
The key being "... to be able to judge the orientation and attitude of the aircraft" - those that claim they can see their Mini 3 from 1,000 I don't believe... and you certainly can't tell if it is in front of or behind an antennae (or any obstacle) from that distance... Even my Obsidian is just a dot in the sky at 1,000'

 

[Xitor]

Rule number 1 - never break the FAA regs, or even the simple guidelines we're required to know before getting the $5 drone registration. E.g. Flying over people or flying BVLOS. "Flying over a fair about 1/2 mile away"
Rule number 2 - if you have a momentary lapse and violate rule number 1, never post the video or a story about your shenanigans online.