Do you use 12 or "48" megapixle setting for stills on the Air3?

[Occams Razor]

Except that DJI themselves say they are different:

Air 3 Mini 4 and Mini 3 Camera CMOS...

At the moment there are several versions of this going around... Perhaps DJI should tell their consumer what the difference in the CMOS are in this 3 different drones... These are all from the DJI website: Air 3: air 3.jpg (55.72 KB, Down times: 35) Download attach 2023-9-27...

forum.dji.com

The Air 3 sensor has different native ISO values from the Minis, which means the sensors, in some way, are physically different (native ISO is a characteristic of hardware, not software).

Thanks for the link. The M3P, M4P and Air 3 all have sensors with dual native ISO's which means they have two conversion gain modes. I believe the high gain amplifier (which controls the high base ISO) can be adjusted within a range so that manufacturers can optimize the sensor for different applications. In other words, it is possible that the sensor is physically the same across all of those drones but DJI adjusted the second native ISO down from 800 to 400 for the Air 3. Please note that in some digital cameras, when you change the ISO, you are actually changing the amplifier gain for the signal from the photosites so this is something that can be controlled externally to the sensor although the amplifier is part of the sensor. Also notice that the DJI administrator did not state they were physically different sensors but the high base ISO was different for the Air 3 - although I doubt the administrator understands what they are stating. In any case, if anyone who understands sensor design and control believes what I stated is incorrect, please let me know.

 

[davidarmenb]

Thanks for the link. The M3P, M4P and Air 3 all have sensors with dual native ISO's which means they have two conversion gain modes. I believe the high gain amplifier (which controls the high base ISO) can be adjusted within a range so that manufacturers can optimize the sensor for different applications. In other words, it is possible that the sensor is physically the same across all of those drones but DJI adjusted the second native ISO down from 800 to 400 for the Air 3. Please note that in some digital cameras, when you change the ISO, you are actually changing the amplifier gain for the signal from the photosites so this is something that can be controlled externally to the sensor although the amplifier is part of the sensor. Also notice that the DJI administrator did not state they were physically different sensors but the high base ISO was different for the Air 3 - although I doubt the administrator understands what they are stating. In any case, if anyone who understands sensor design and control believes what I stated is incorrect, please let me know.

The Mini 3 Pro has a different sensor than the sensor in the Mini 4 Pro and the two sensors on the Air 3.

The Mini 3 Pro sensor is a standard FSI (front-side illuminated) sensor, whereas both the Mini 4 Pro and the Air 3 (both the wide and Tele sensors) use a stacked, BSI (back-side illuminated) sensor. Those are physical, hardware differences and so they cannot be the same physical sensor.

The stacked BSI sensor in the Mini 4 Pro, however, is physically identical to the two stacked BSI sensors in the Air 3, as far as I know.

More detailed information can be found in this post.

 

[PanoVolo]

all these differences in HW do not change anything for the initial question - which mode - 12 or 48 to use, and is sensor a 12 MPx or 48 MPx one.

 

[Droning on and on...]

all these differences in HW do not change anything for the initial question - which mode - 12 or 48 to use, and is sensor a 12 MPx or 48 MPx one.

Well, they are certainly directly pertinent to the question if they affect the quality and fidelity of the resulting image, don't you think?

In addition to actual design differences between sensors, another manufacturing process, binning, will yield different performance characteristics for different copies of exactly the same chip from even the same wafer.

The higher performing copies are given a "variation" part number designation (often -A, -01, etc. appended to the part number), and are sold at a higher price tag.

While I don't know, it is certainly possible that the sensors used in the A3 are binned and have less noise, have a higher dynamic range, better low light performance, and better achievable resolution in 48MP mode because the output is cleaner, so the image processing pipeline has more to work with.

Like I said, I don't know this, but it's an obvious place to be thinking when the engineers were designing the Air 3 and deciding how to make the camera better than the M4P.

Unless they're the crappiest engineers on the planet.

 

[CraigVMN]

I only shoot RAW. Is that 12 or 48? (BTW a 4K display only works out to be 8.3 megapixels )

 

[PanoVolo]

It will depend on the mode. DNG is not really "raw" and neither are any of the modern raw file formats for the matter - the binning (48 to 12) will happen in hardware before DNG is generated.

 

[Occams Razor]

The Mini 3 Pro has a different sensor than the sensor in the Mini 4 Pro and the two sensors on the Air 3.

The Mini 3 Pro sensor is a standard FSI (front-side illuminated) sensor, whereas both the Mini 4 Pro and the Air 3 (both the wide and Tele sensors) use a stacked, BSI (back-side illuminated) sensor. Those are physical, hardware differences and so they cannot be the same physical sensor.

The stacked BSI sensor in the Mini 4 Pro, however, is physically identical to the two stacked BSI sensors in the Air 3, as far as I know.

More detailed information can be found in this post.

Sorry but unless you have documented information other than some paid YouTubers, what you are stating is incorrect. The core image sensor for all 3 drones are the same - all of the specs, descriptions and published information from DJI do not indicate any difference between the Mini 3 Pro, Mini 4 Pro and Air 3. There is no difference between the RAW output for the 3 drones. Please note I am not stating what technology is used in these sensors as it is possible they are all 3 BSI Stacked Sensors. The only difference is the Mini 4 and Air 3 have an enhanced image processors which allows for H.265 coding (HLG/D-Log M) which the Mini 3 Pro cannot do. The ISP may be part of the sensor stack so you can technically state that may be a physical difference. Again all of my conclusions comes from the DJI published information - not from some super secret script that only a couple of sponsored reviewers allegedly have.

 

[TaylorsGuard]

Have been using 12 in the past based on other discussions but just curious what people are currently doing or any perspectives have changed In here specifically?

I have read that the color depth is higher on the 12mp shots than the 48 mp shots. 12 bit vs 10 is it?

 

[Phantomrain.org]

I have read that the color depth is higher on the 12mp shots than the 48 mp shots. 12 bit vs 10 is it?

Were a huge fan of the 48 mp and it more based on being able to see more of the area and crop into the focus points..
We have posted quite a few shots from that aspect on the Forum. I have never noticed a real difference in Color Depth on our pictures that were not edited some how in Adobe Lightroom.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain, Capture the storm.

 

[TaylorsGuard]

Were a huge fan of the 48 mp and it more based on being able to see more of the area and crop into the focus points..
We have posted quite a few shots from that aspect on the Forum. I have never noticed a real difference in Color Depth on our pictures that were not edited some how in Adobe Lightroom.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain, Capture the storm.

I use 48 myself for the same reason. I just wanted to see if I got something from the other side. One day I will have a mavic, but for now have an air 3. I just can't get my photos where I want them, quality wise. Anyone have a good link or source for knowledge on this. I've seen so much and just still. My next step will be dxo pure raw I guess.

 

[Patrick Andreasen]

Have been using 12 in the past based on other discussions but just curious what people are currently doing or any perspectives have changed In here specifically?

depends on the time. I use 48 mp in the day and 12 at night. I use 48 at day because noise is less visible when its brighter and you can crank the ISO really low and still keep the shutter speed short especially if its bright out and I use 12 mp at night because because what it does is it will shoot at 48 and then it will take a select pixel and average it with the values of the pixels surrounding it helping to reduce noise. it does effect overall sharpness though because a part of that average does include the pixels that are grainy/noisy. If anybody asks you about the 12 mp don't quote me on it because I low-key don't remember where I got that info from I'm pretty sure I got it from chat gpt a few months ago.

 

[monchan]

I agree with Patrick, I seem to find the 12mp during low to be better.

Off topic a bit, I take a lot of long exposure photos with a ND1000 or ND2000.
The 48mp can only take shots upto 3 or 4 sec. But the 12mp can go upto 8sec. Yes these drones in the right
conditions can do that.

 

[Felix le Chat]

I agree with Patrick, I seem to find the 12mp during low to be better.

Off topic a bit, I take a lot of long exposure photos with a ND1000 or ND2000.
The 48mp can only take shots upto 3 or 4 sec. But the 12mp can go upto 8sec. Yes these drones in the right
conditions can do that.

"virtual 8 seconds"... whatever that means...

 

[hank970]

I shoot 48 megapixels in RAW exclusively and am pleased with the results I obtain. I never shoot on the fly. Instead, I always bring the drone to a stop and allow time for the cameras to focus before tripping the shutter.

I have limited knowledge of how quad-Bayer sensors work but have assumed that my Air 3's on-board processor automatically changes the configuration of the sensors in response to the conditions they perceive. If that's indeed true, then in low light conditions, it would automatically bin the pixels to create a 12 mp image. Conversely, in high contrast situations, it would automatically read alternate rows of pixels at slightly different times to yield a lower contrast image.

Is my understanding flawed? If so, how? I know I can select 12 or 48 megapixels manually, but can the drone also do that automatically as conditions warrant?

 

[GadgetGuy]

I shoot 48 megapixels in RAW exclusively and am pleased with the results I obtain. I never shoot on the fly. Instead, I always bring the drone to a stop and allow time for the cameras to focus before tripping the shutter.

I have limited knowledge of how quad-Bayer sensors work but have assumed that my Air 3's on-board processor automatically changes the configuration of the sensors in response to the conditions they perceive. If that's indeed true, then in low light conditions, it would automatically bin the pixels to create a 12 mp image. Conversely, in high contrast situations, it would automatically read alternate rows of pixels at slightly different times to yield a lower contrast image.

Is my understanding flawed? If so, how? I know I can select 12 or 48 megapixels manually, but can the drone also do that automatically as conditions warrant?

If you are already taking the time to stop and shoot the 48 MP DNG image, why not also take 8 more seconds and shoot an AEB bracketing shot or DNG at the 12 MP setting. You can then decide which one you get the best results from later. It will likely vary. The 48 MP version doesn't do well in low light.

 

[hank970]

I do shoot AEB when confronted with high contrast situations, like dark conifers and snow against a bright blue sky. To see one of my low-light 48 mp shots taken without bracketing, check out the picture of the Sandia Resort and Casino I recently posted in the photo and video forum. It was shot on a windy evening when the drone was being tossed about. All things being equal, I guess I'd rather make exposure, contrast, and noise adjustments on a high resolution 48-megapixel image in post-processing (I use Lightroom 6 and Affinity Photo) than settle for the reduced resolution of a 12 mp image from the outset.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I do shoot AEB when confronted with high contrast situations, like dark conifers and snow against a bright blue sky. To see one of my low-light 48 mp shots taken without bracketing, check out the picture of the Sandia Resort and Casino I recently posted in the photo and video forum. It was shot on a windy evening when the drone was being tossed about. All things being equal, I guess I'd rather make exposure, contrast, and noise adjustments on a high resolution 48-megapixel image in post-processing (I use Lightroom 6 and Affinity Photo) than settle for the reduced resolution of a 12 mp image from the outset.

I was just making the point of shooting both 12 MP and 48 MP of the same subject at the same time, one after the other, to determine which is best for that scene at that time of day. You don't have to choose only one or the other at the time of shooting. Preserve your options by shooting both!

 

[hank970]

I was just making the point of shooting both 12 MP and 48 MP of the same subject at the same time, one after the other, to determine which is best for that scene at that time of day. You don't have to choose only one or the other at the time of shooting. Preserve your options by shooting both!

I suppose that's a good pointer for folks relatively new to photography, but I've been in the game for a long time. Since getting a drone, I've tried both 12 mp and 48 mp under various circumstances, have made up my mind which I prefer, and I'm happy with the results I get. Though my DSLRs don't have quad-Bayer sensors, they also allow me to select a reduced resolution. I wouldn't think of doing that with them either. I'd rather crop an image in post-processing than direct my camera to do it at the time of exposure.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I suppose that's a good pointer for folks relatively new to photography, but I've been in the game for a long time. Since getting a drone, I've tried both 12 mp and 48 mp under various circumstances, have made up my mind which I prefer, and I'm happy with the results I get. Though my DSLRs don't have quad-Bayer sensors, they also allow me to select a reduced resolution. I wouldn't think of doing that with them either. I'd rather crop an image in post-processing than direct my camera to do it at the time of exposure.

While you may have decided only to shoot 48MP, it isn't a panacea, as the higher resolution is misleading. In low light, the 12MP native mode of the sensor will result in a better image as it will have less noise than the Quad-Bayer 48MP. Quad-Bayer sensors producing higher MP images are not comparable to native high resolution DSLR sensors that are not using quad-Bayer to create their higher resolutions, which also allow a lower resolution mode for those not caring about resolution. That would be the equivalent of shooting in a lower resolution than 12MP on the Air 3.