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Does Mavic Shoot Video or Watercolor Paintings? Don’t settle. Get Involved!

Not necessarily true. Digital camera sensors have usually shrunk over the past years as technology progresses. So a smaller sensor on the Mavic should not imply that it WILL HAVE lower quality than the P3 or P4 etc. This is some sort of bug or bad software/firware glitch that DJI should accept and try to come up with a fix.
I think the original poster was talking about the camera unit size, not sensor size. P3, P4 and Mavic have all sensors of same size (1/2.3"). Only the new P4P has a larger sensor (1") and a confirmed better image quality. That is not saying that you cannot shoot good images/video with a 1/2.3" sensor as well.
 
I finally decided to send mine in for gimbal issues and the warm spot. Now I just have to pray hard to not get one back with this issue instead.
If DJI is correct in their recent statements all Mavics have the warm spot, it seems to only be badly noticeable in quite overcast/poor light conditions on mine, when looking at loads of clips online I have noticed it now I know what i'm looking for...
 
If DJI is correct in their recent statements all Mavics have the warm spot, it seems to only be badly noticeable in quite overcast/poor light conditions on mine, when looking at loads of clips online I have noticed it now I know what i'm looking for...

Could you please point to me this statement of DJI's where they talk about this warm spot?

Thanks
 
I think my Mavic has the same issues as described in this thread. Unusable video on NTSC 4K 24FPS, photo was on D-cine -1, -1, -1. RAW was I think salvageable but the test vids where crap.

Will try more tests after work.
 
I think the original poster was talking about the camera unit size, not sensor size. P3, P4 and Mavic have all sensors of same size (1/2.3"). Only the new P4P has a larger sensor (1") and a confirmed better image quality. That is not saying that you cannot shoot good images/video with a 1/2.3" sensor as well.

That's correct, I was referencing the camera unit as a whole, the footage I got from my P3P had no issues with the water colour effect, or the poor low light (even overcast) noise issues I see on the Mavic (tested also at 0-0-0) I would say the mavic performs poorly in bad light and acceptably in good light - but in neither case is the footage as high quality.

I am sure they'll upgrade the camera for a 2nd generation and I look forward to that, in the meantime hopefully there is more they can do with software as the footage I'm seeing is disappointing.


Sent from my iPhone using MavicPilots
 
If DJI is correct in their recent statements all Mavics have the warm spot, it seems to only be badly noticeable in quite overcast/poor light conditions on mine, when looking at loads of clips online I have noticed it now I know what i'm looking for...

Not only do all Mavics have it, but most (maybe all?) P4Ps have it as well - meaning that DJI's excuse of a small sensor/small camera package is BS.
 
Well, Guys Looks like bad *** DJI KEN totally deleted my post over on the DJI forum as to many people were saying that they demanded a fix for this BS ….. I guess Im super banned from the forum but I have my ways …… but not really interested in the DJI bully game I just want a fix. If I may add maybe if all of you guys would just go start post stating HEY DJI WHEN YOU GOING TO FIX THIS water color ISSUE? and NR issue? Im just saying if a lot do it then maybe they will get the message .. then maybe not!
 
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Still hoping this issue gets fixed soon. But I'm thinking a new mavic will come out quicker than a fix to our problem.

I tried your workaround @photoboy and it seems to work. But only temporarily. It looks like it goes away mid flight. Did you find a fix for this yet? Or do I need to switch it to PAL then back to NTSC and start filming once the watercolor issue resurfaces?
 
Still hoping this issue gets fixed soon. But I'm thinking a new mavic will come out quicker than a fix to our problem.

This is standard operating procedure for DJI, as anyone that's followed them or owned their products throughout the years can attest to. The Mavic has drawn in a lot of first time buyers and DJI's inability to change its culture and mentality towards customer service and QC is going to ensure that most of them are last time buyers as well.
 
Did they actually delete that thread. That's poor man.
 
I’ll preface this by saying my experience with the Mavic is quite limited so far, because I have actually had a unit in my possession for only a very short period of time, since I’ve had to send it back to DJI for replacement twice now. That said, here are my thoughts on this whole video image quality thing. I believe it can all be chalked up to two things really: (1) A very noisy sensor, even at lowest ISO, and (2) poor compression / processing algorithms used by DJI. Let me explain.

When I first got my Mavic, I did what most people were recommending online and set the picture style to Art / D-Cinelike and sharpness, contrast and saturation all at -1. After doing this, I also had an issue with the watercolour video phenomenon. It looked like the image was out of focus, but I was religiously tapping to focus, and some parts of some scenes had more detail than other parts. This led me to believe it was a compression or noise reduction problem rather than a focus problem.

So started messing around with the settings, and found that if I moved the sharpness back to 0 or +1, much more detail was present again. But also, even at -1, when I increased exposure, detail reappeared in some cases. I even have one example of footage where some weakly lit trees start off as watercolours, and as I increase the exposure, detail reappears in the trees, in increments exactly corresponding to the clicks on the scroll wheel.

I haven’t yet a chance to do a proper set of tests, but here’s my theory, based on my limited experience and observations so far. The watercolour effect occurs when there’s a certain interaction between exposure and sharpness setting, as dictated by the algorithm DJI uses. As you decrease sharpness, the exposure threshold at which the watercolour effect appears is lowered. For example, if you have some trees that show normal levels of detail with sharpness at 0 and exposure at 0 EV, if you lower the exposure to -1 EV, not only does the scene get darker (of course), but the detail vanishes and is replaced by the watercolour effect. Conversely, if you increase sharpness to +1 and keep EV at -1 in the example above, while the scene remains darker, the detail in the trees comes back. In other words, instead of just applying a sharpness mask to the video (as is done with most other cameras I’ve used that have a sharpness setting), sharpness on the Mavic controls the threshold at which noise reduction is applied.

I think DJI is taking this approach to limit the heavy noise produced by this sensor (it is afterall a tiny sensor). The problem is, it’s not a well implemented approach, as the noise reduction that’s applied is WAY too heavy handed. BTW, if you don’t believe me about the heavy noise this sensor produces, try turning up the sharpness to +1 or +2… the video becomes extremely noisy (even with well-lit scenes). And not in the way you’d expect from a sharpness mask being applied… it’s more like the inherent noise of the sensor is no longer being hidden by noise reduction.

So in order to fix this, I think all DJI needs to do is alter their sharpness and / or noise reduction algorithms... because right now, they kind of suck.

Now, what have I been doing to get around this issue for now (with the footage I managed to take during the brief period where I actually had a Mavic)? Basically, I turn the sharpness UP to 0 or +1. This results in footage that is very noisy. BUT, I then deal with this noise in post-processing, using an awesome noise reduction plug-in called Neat Video. It is most definitely a huge pain in the butt though… not only do you need to spend time tweaking the noise reduction settings, but rendering takes MUCH, MUCH longer, especially on 2.7k or 4k footage (I’m talking an order of magnitude longer). But it’s the only way I’ve found for now to get usable footage from the Mavic.

Another issue I’ve noticed that sort of relates to this and was brought up in an earlier post on this thread is the weird pulsing that I’ve seen in most of the videos I’ve taken with the Mavic so far (it’s especially obvious in darker areas, but also sometimes in brighter areas). After doing a fair bit of research, I learned that this is the result of the compression algorithm used by DJI, which appears to reset the compression keyframe every 8 frames. I’m not exactly sure what that means, but basically there is a drastic change in the image every 8th frame (you can see this by moving through the footage frame by frame). The end result is the pulsing effect that’s observed. Essentially, again, DJI’s compression algorithm sucks.

I’ve learned of a way to deal with this as well, which is to use a plug-in called Flicker Free. It works quite well (substantially reduces the pulsing, even if it sometimes doesn’t completely eliminate it), but again, it takes extra time to refine the settings, and the render times go up substantially again. Using both this and Neat Video, my render times can be about 40 times what they are without these plug-ins!!! Also, the combined cost of these plug-ins is about US$225… a significant chunk of change. And Neat Video doesn’t work well with Davinci Resolve, so really you need either Adobe Premiere or Final Cut to use it, which themselves cost a lot of money.

Obviously, I hope DJI gets their act together on this very soon. I haven’t had a Mavic to use for 2 months now, so maybe they’ve even done it already.
 
I’ll preface this by saying my experience with the Mavic is quite limited so far, because I have actually had a unit in my possession for only a very short period of time, since I’ve had to send it back to DJI for replacement twice now. That said, here are my thoughts on this whole video image quality thing. I believe it can all be chalked up to two things really: (1) A very noisy sensor, even at lowest ISO, and (2) poor compression / processing algorithms used by DJI. Let me explain.

When I first got my Mavic, I did what most people were recommending online and set the picture style to Art / D-Cinelike and sharpness, contrast and saturation all at -1. After doing this, I also had an issue with the watercolour video phenomenon. It looked like the image was out of focus, but I was religiously tapping to focus, and some parts of some scenes had more detail than other parts. This led me to believe it was a compression or noise reduction problem rather than a focus problem.

So started messing around with the settings, and found that if I moved the sharpness back to 0 or +1, much more detail was present again. But also, even at -1, when I increased exposure, detail reappeared in some cases. I even have one example of footage where some weakly lit trees start off as watercolours, and as I increase the exposure, detail reappears in the trees, in increments exactly corresponding to the clicks on the scroll wheel.

I haven’t yet a chance to do a proper set of tests, but here’s my theory, based on my limited experience and observations so far. The watercolour effect occurs when there’s a certain interaction between exposure and sharpness setting, as dictated by the algorithm DJI uses. As you decrease sharpness, the exposure threshold at which the watercolour effect appears is lowered. For example, if you have some trees that show normal levels of detail with sharpness at 0 and exposure at 0 EV, if you lower the exposure to -1 EV, not only does the scene get darker (of course), but the detail vanishes and is replaced by the watercolour effect. Conversely, if you increase sharpness to +1 and keep EV at -1 in the example above, while the scene remains darker, the detail in the trees comes back. In other words, instead of just applying a sharpness mask to the video (as is done with most other cameras I’ve used that have a sharpness setting), sharpness on the Mavic controls the threshold at which noise reduction is applied.

I think DJI is taking this approach to limit the heavy noise produced by this sensor (it is afterall a tiny sensor). The problem is, it’s not a well implemented approach, as the noise reduction that’s applied is WAY too heavy handed. BTW, if you don’t believe me about the heavy noise this sensor produces, try turning up the sharpness to +1 or +2… the video becomes extremely noisy (even with well-lit scenes). And not in the way you’d expect from a sharpness mask being applied… it’s more like the inherent noise of the sensor is no longer being hidden by noise reduction.

So in order to fix this, I think all DJI needs to do is alter their sharpness and / or noise reduction algorithms... because right now, they kind of suck.

Now, what have I been doing to get around this issue for now (with the footage I managed to take during the brief period where I actually had a Mavic)? Basically, I turn the sharpness UP to 0 or +1. This results in footage that is very noisy. BUT, I then deal with this noise in post-processing, using an awesome noise reduction plug-in called Neat Video. It is most definitely a huge pain in the butt though… not only do you need to spend time tweaking the noise reduction settings, but rendering takes MUCH, MUCH longer, especially on 2.7k or 4k footage (I’m talking an order of magnitude longer). But it’s the only way I’ve found for now to get usable footage from the Mavic.

Another issue I’ve noticed that sort of relates to this and was brought up in an earlier post on this thread is the weird pulsing that I’ve seen in most of the videos I’ve taken with the Mavic so far (it’s especially obvious in darker areas, but also sometimes in brighter areas). After doing a fair bit of research, I learned that this is the result of the compression algorithm used by DJI, which appears to reset the compression keyframe every 8 frames. I’m not exactly sure what that means, but basically there is a drastic change in the image every 8th frame (you can see this by moving through the footage frame by frame). The end result is the pulsing effect that’s observed. Essentially, again, DJI’s compression algorithm sucks.

I’ve learned of a way to deal with this as well, which is to use a plug-in called Flicker Free. It works quite well (substantially reduces the pulsing, even if it sometimes doesn’t completely eliminate it), but again, it takes extra time to refine the settings, and the render times go up substantially again. Using both this and Neat Video, my render times can be about 40 times what they are without these plug-ins!!! Also, the combined cost of these plug-ins is about US$225… a significant chunk of change. And Neat Video doesn’t work well with Davinci Resolve, so really you need either Adobe Premiere or Final Cut to use it, which themselves cost a lot of money.

Obviously, I hope DJI gets their act together on this very soon. I haven’t had a Mavic to use for 2 months now, so maybe they’ve even done it already.
Nice report! Great work!
 
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Yesterday I did a series of video tests and I believe I narrowed it down this issue to combination of:
  • flat scene that is not contrasty enough, shoot at lower light or if shot in good light but with negative sharpness and contrast applied as the edge detection algorithm used by compression algorithm doesn't pickup details in the image at the time of saving it resulting in averaging colors in an area aka mudding the image.
  • compression of video that actually destroys details that are hiding in flat image
If there is enough sharpness/contrast before video is saved then this watereffect issue is 95% gone, but this means less room for post production.

It doesn't matter which style is used none/d-cinelike/d-log they both have their own internal sharpness/contrast built in, together with user sharpness/contrast adjustments they all display same issue because too flat video is coming out in combination with compression when saving.

In good light d-log -1-1-1 will result in muddy image. Setting it to 0 0 0 will result in ok image for good light. After sunset in dusk same d-log 0 0 0 will result in muddy image but if increased to 1 0 0 it will be again normal just little more grainy because of sharpening (same ISO as before). So same settings should not be used for all scenes.
My long term (next 4 days) testing will include:
  • low light, very cloudy, late in the afternoon, or very flat image - dlog 1 0 0
  • good light, with sun hitting the scene - dlog 0 0 0
Other styles dcinelike/none also work but with different settings. I found that none 0 -2 -2 is also nice but will have to test it more to see how it behaves in different scenes.

DJI can add options:
  • disable NR - this will result in grainy parts in video (much better that than watereffect)
  • compression setting (low, medium, hight) that will less likely muddy video - this can be tricky to implement as this would make files bigger in size and it has to do with hardware specs, especially if this is burnt onto chip or there is a bottleneck when saving the image and they need to make so strict compression

Your post is quite consistent with my own observations so far. In terms of your suggestions for what DJI can do, I would just add they could offer a setting that allows you to control the level of NR (instead of just on / off). I think part of the watercolour problem is from their NR being too heavy handed, i.e. goes from 0 to 100 instantly, without anything in between.
 
Great suggestion, a custom NR setting will be great. After having the Mavic for 3 months, I would only stick to "none" or "true color", as watercolor effect is less likely to occur in these settings. I have done about a hundred shots so far with the Mavic using 'true color' setting, the watercolor effect only showed up in two cases in scenes with lots of tree. In such cases, I just switched to 'none' and the watercolor was gone.
 
Well, Guys Looks like bad *** DJI KEN totally deleted my post over on the DJI forum as to many people were saying that they demanded a fix for this BS ….. I guess Im super banned from the forum but I have my ways …… but not really interested in the DJI bully game I just want a fix. If I may add maybe if all of you guys would just go start post stating HEY DJI WHEN YOU GOING TO FIX THIS water color ISSUE? and NR issue? Im just saying if a lot do it then maybe they will get the message .. then maybe not!

yes please, everyone on this thread should report it on DJI's forum site so that we can this fixed..I've made a mission on talking about this issue in every relevant post i read on DJI's site.
 
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Hi all,
I’ve been doing lots of flight tests with the Mavic to try to get my head around this watercolour issue.
Here’s what I’ve found: (note this is all shot on PAL @ 25FPS Cinelike)
This is in regard to the Custom style settings which from what I’ve seen are the source of the watercolour problems:
First thing to note (as others have) is that the Mavic really doesn’t like low light.
0 0 0 seems ok in good light.
In a situation with a field of short-ish grass and trees it seems ok and doesn’t go watercolour-y.
Seems to retain detail ok.
You might even get away with -1 0 0.
Especially if your scene is fairly uncomplicated.
Maybe like a beach or a desert?
But the light needs to be good for that.

-2 0 0 and below is pretty unuseable especially with things like grass and leaves.
That’s where the watercolour effect really kicks in.
Finely detailed grass and leaves will be rendered as blobs while objects that are bigger and have simpler forms (big blades of grass, branches, people, buildings etc) may still appear ok.
At -3 0 0 or even -3 -1 -1 you can get to the stage where you’ll get a person looking quite good but starkly outlined against a massively blurred background of grass.


At the other extreme. taking it to +1 0 0 gives horrible graininess, digital noise and edging so avoid that.
Unless you are flying in low light against a complex scene.
Take the field of grass and trees as an example.
With low-ish light and 0 0 0 most of the grass and leaves are ok but some patches where for instance the grass is very finely textured tend to go into blobs.
A setting of +1 0 0 might just get you around that but then you’re going to get noise and over sharpening in the other bits but there’s your choice.

Settings above +1 0 0 aren’t worth looking at unless you’re in a situation that I haven’t come across.

So from what I’ve seen the solution to the watercolour problem is to fly in good light and don’t delve into the negative settings unless you’re in a situation of a non-complex scene.
Just a note about the Mavic’s “soft” settings:
It seems that the DJI software doesn't just soften everything uniformly like, say a gaussian blur would do in photoshop.
The way it works is to create a threshold of detail above which everything is sharp and below which everything is rendered as a blob.
Lowering the sharpness lowers that threshold so that things that have a fineness and detail below the threshold are rendered as watercolour and above which they retain detail.
The cutoff between the two seems quite sharp.
You can have individual leaves sharp against a background of blur where those leaves are just below the threshold and are therefore rendered as a blob.

Oh, and one more thing: if you’re image is even slightly out of focus it magnifies the watercolour effect hugely.

So I hope that helps.
I also hope that DJI can come up with a firmware fix so that the sharpness processing algorithms are a bit more subtle and even.
Until then I’ll be flying the Mavic within its limitations.
Sucks I know but what do you expect for $2K?
 
Hi all,
I’ve been doing lots of flight tests with the Mavic to try to get my head around this watercolour issue.
Here’s what I’ve found: (note this is all shot on PAL @ 25FPS Cinelike)
This is in regard to the Custom style settings which from what I’ve seen are the source of the watercolour problems:
First thing to note (as others have) is that the Mavic really doesn’t like low light.
0 0 0 seems ok in good light.
In a situation with a field of short-ish grass and trees it seems ok and doesn’t go watercolour-y.
Seems to retain detail ok.
You might even get away with -1 0 0.
Especially if your scene is fairly uncomplicated.
Maybe like a beach or a desert?
But the light needs to be good for that.

-2 0 0 and below is pretty unuseable especially with things like grass and leaves.
That’s where the watercolour effect really kicks in.
Finely detailed grass and leaves will be rendered as blobs while objects that are bigger and have simpler forms (big blades of grass, branches, people, buildings etc) may still appear ok.
At -3 0 0 or even -3 -1 -1 you can get to the stage where you’ll get a person looking quite good but starkly outlined against a massively blurred background of grass.


At the other extreme. taking it to +1 0 0 gives horrible graininess, digital noise and edging so avoid that.
Unless you are flying in low light against a complex scene.
Take the field of grass and trees as an example.
With low-ish light and 0 0 0 most of the grass and leaves are ok but some patches where for instance the grass is very finely textured tend to go into blobs.
A setting of +1 0 0 might just get you around that but then you’re going to get noise and over sharpening in the other bits but there’s your choice.

Settings above +1 0 0 aren’t worth looking at unless you’re in a situation that I haven’t come across.

So from what I’ve seen the solution to the watercolour problem is to fly in good light and don’t delve into the negative settings unless you’re in a situation of a non-complex scene.
Just a note about the Mavic’s “soft” settings:
It seems that the DJI software doesn't just soften everything uniformly like, say a gaussian blur would do in photoshop.
The way it works is to create a threshold of detail above which everything is sharp and below which everything is rendered as a blob.
Lowering the sharpness lowers that threshold so that things that have a fineness and detail below the threshold are rendered as watercolour and above which they retain detail.
The cutoff between the two seems quite sharp.
You can have individual leaves sharp against a background of blur where those leaves are just below the threshold and are therefore rendered as a blob.

Oh, and one more thing: if you’re image is even slightly out of focus it magnifies the watercolour effect hugely.

So I hope that helps.
I also hope that DJI can come up with a firmware fix so that the sharpness processing algorithms are a bit more subtle and even.
Until then I’ll be flying the Mavic within its limitations.
Sucks I know but what do you expect for $2K?

Some really good observations that are quite consistent with my own experience.

I would add that a noise reduction plug-in such as Neat Video really is your friend with the Mavic. For me, it's basically a must. I've found I get way better results by putting the sharpness at 0 or +1, and then dealing with the added noise using Neat Video. The main problem is it takes WAY longer to render with this plug-in. But it does do a very good job of cleaning up the noise.
 
Some really good observations that are quite consistent with my own experience.

I would add that a noise reduction plug-in such as Neat Video really is your friend with the Mavic. For me, it's basically a must. I've found I get way better results by putting the sharpness at 0 or +1, and then dealing with the added noise using Neat Video. The main problem is it takes WAY longer to render with this plug-in. But it does do a very good job of cleaning up the noise.

I agree. Neat video is amazing and saved my butt a number of times. But the processing time is glacial. I'll give the +1 and Neat go and see how it shapes up. I'm still getting my head around the mavic so won't be using for a real job any time soon but at least I'm feeling a bit better that I don't have a dud. There was a rumour that the latest batch of Mavics had faults but it seems from what I finding out that it's just the limitation imposed by their quality and the light and landscape in which they're flown.
 

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