Does Mavic Shoot Video or Watercolor Paintings? Don’t settle. Get Involved!

[BorisTheSpider]

I use ND16 to create 1/50 shutter speed during day time - in this case should I be using +1 since technically I am creating a "low light" situation? Or do I stick with 0?

The EV (0, or +1 etc) is based on how much light the sensor "thinks" there should be to get a correct exposure.

In other words, EV 0 with no filter, with an ND1024, an ND2 or anything else is exactly the same.

Using an ND filter doesn't create a low light situation, unless you're using an excessively strong ND. What you're aiming to do is create a situation where the light entering the camera is just sufficient to keep a shutter speed around 1/60th at ISO 100 - that's not low light, it's just enough light.

Overexposing a bit is normally best, since noise in the shadows is objectionable, but it mustn't be done without being sure that the blown highlights are detail you don't care about losing.

The best overall exposure approach IMO is to turn on zebras (overexposure warning), use fully manual exposure, then set ISO 100 and aim for a shutter speed somewhere between 1/60 and 1/200 with the brightest highlights _just_ barely triggering the zebras. If the brightest highlight is the sun, ignore that and let it blow out, but aim to barely blow out the brightest highlight in which you believe it's possible to retain detail.

 

[Ziggy01]

I agree with all of this, except I find that the Mavic sensor doesn't cope with any blown highlights whatsoever. There is zero recovery. I'd prefer a slightly underexposed image from the Mavic to an overexposed any day, mainly because the shadow lift capabilities of Davinci are quite good and the N.R is excellent. Preferable to no detail in the highlights.

...and that's my 10 cents...

 

[changyang1230]

The EV (0, or +1 etc) is based on how much light the sensor "thinks" there should be to get a correct exposure.

In other words, EV 0 with no filter, with an ND1024, an ND2 or anything else is exactly the same.

Using an ND filter doesn't create a low light situation, unless you're using an excessively strong ND. What you're aiming to do is create a situation where the light entering the camera is just sufficient to keep a shutter speed around 1/60th at ISO 100 - that's not low light, it's just enough light.

Thanks - I actually fully understand your point (being an experienced photographer), I was just a bit unsure what Cybernate was referring to when he mentioned low light.

So for "low light", are we now talking about
a) under-exposed region (e.g. shadows) in an otherwise overall adequately exposed scene, or
b) a genuine low light blue-hour footage where the camera is forced to use ISO 400 without filter to achieve EV0?

 

[BorisTheSpider]

Thanks Ziggy, I also find there's zero highlight recovery headroom, so perhaps I should be slightly less aggressive in exposing my videos - I was initially using negative sharpening, d-log and all the other bogus suggestions that people make with the mavic, and then you really need to expose to the right very aggressively because the shadow noise is awful, but perhaps now I'm using better profile settings I should review that and aim to preserve the highlights a bit more

 

[Ziggy01]

Actually, that was another poster that mentioned altering his sharpness for "low light".

I personally won't shoot at 0 any time.

 

[Ziggy01]

Thanks Ziggy, I also find there's zero highlight recovery headroom, so perhaps I should be slightly less aggressive in exposing my videos - I was initially using negative sharpening, d-log and all the other bogus suggestions that people make with the mavic, and then you really need to expose to the right very aggressively because the shadow noise is awful, but perhaps now I'm using better profile settings I should review that and aim to preserve the highlights a bit more

Yeah, maybe.

I find ETTR is simply not an applicable option with the Mavic. It's a rule that I apply in my stills photography...but here I tend to lean in the opposite direction.

Then again, I'm not afraid of dark images. Crush the blacks, I say!!

...actually, I should probably be careful with that kind of terminology around here.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

Crush the blacks, I say!!

...actually, I should probably be careful with that kind of terminology around here.

Haha we've both been spending too much time here recently if we both get that joke - I suspect we live too far away to have a beer, but if that weren't the case I'd be buying you one...

 

[Ziggy01]

Haha we've both been spending too much time here recently if we both get that joke - I suspect we live too far away to have a beer, but if that weren't the case I'd be buying you one...

Well, if you've taken your handle from John Entwistle, I'm buying the rounds.

 

[AyeYo]

I agree with all of this, except I find that the Mavic sensor doesn't cope with any blown highlights whatsoever. There is zero recovery. I'd prefer a slightly underexposed image from the Mavic to an overexposed any day, mainly because the shadow lift capabilities of Davinci are quite good and the N.R is excellent. Preferable to no detail in the highlights.

...and that's my 10 cents...

This. I don't know why over-exposing or right leaning exposure is now getting recommended so often. You CAN recover shadows. You CANNOT recover blown highlights.

 

[Kingkong]

This. I don't know why over-exposing or right leaning exposure is now getting recommended so often. You CAN recover shadows. You CANNOT recover blown highlights.

Haven.t read all the posts so i may be missing something but the whole point of this thread is that the mavic noise reduction destroys underexposed areas, there is no recovering from it. It doesn.t behave like other cameras that are not as aggressive with noise reduction
Many, myself included have followed other 'guru' advice from youtubers etc only to discover the watercolor problem in lowlight areas of the picture caused by the mavics noise reduction software when on sharpness less than 0.
U won t notice this in brightly lit areas of the picture, so if u only shoot in bright light u may not notice it so much, but shooting in the golden hr of sunrise and sunset will bring it out

 

[AyeYo]

Haven.t read all the posts so i may be missing something but the whole point of this thread is that the mavic noise reduction destroys underexposed areas, there is no recovering from it. It doesn.t behave like other cameras that are not as aggressive with noise reduction
Many, myself included have followed other 'guru' advice from youtubers etc only to discover the watercolor problem in lowlight areas of the picture caused by the mavics noise reduction software when on sharpness less than 0.
U won t notice this in brightly lit areas of the picture, so if u only shoot in bright light u may not notice it so much, but shooting in the golden hr of sunrise and sunset will bring it out

But if you *do* read the whole thread, the issue isn't noise reduction so much as it is over-aggressive compression. The issues are also user created and I was actually the first person to step up and point it out (to much crying and whining at first). The aggressive compression becomes problematic when anything is done to flatten the image, e.g. shooting log profiles, reducing contrast, reducing sharpness, reducing saturation, shooting monochromatic scenes, etc.

The issue caused by under-exposed shadows is, again, because of overly aggressive compression. As soon as the compression algo sees similar colors and shades, you can bet they're going to get banded together - and that's exactly what happens when your shadows get too dark, they look similar enough to band into a black block. Noise reduction has nothing to do with it.

However, you have far more leeway on this if you're shooting with the correct settings (None 0,0,0 for well-lit scenes, None +1,0,0 for monochromatic or poorly lit scenes). What you have absolutely zero leeway with is your highlights. If you blow your highlights, they're gone. If shadows are a little too dark, you will be able to recover them. The detail might not be razor sharp, but there will be something there. It comes down to personal preference, but 99.999% of the time I'd rather have reduced shadow detail than zero highlight detail.

Bottom line, you have an absolutely razor fine edge to walk with this camera. ETTR does not apply. You have to expose perfectly every time or you will lose detail. Even when perfectly exposed, the dynamic range is very small. So if you're shooting a high range scene, you're going to have to choose what end of the histogram you clip, and in most cases it's better to clip the shadows than to have a pure white sky.

 

[J3ffrey]

But if you *do* read the whole thread, the issue isn't noise reduction so much as it is over-aggressive compression. The issues are also user created and I was actually the first person to step up and point it out (to much crying and whining at first). The aggressive compression becomes problematic when anything is done to flatten the image, e.g. shooting log profiles, reducing contrast, reducing sharpness, reducing saturation, shooting monochromatic scenes, etc.

The issue caused by under-exposed shadows is, again, because of overly aggressive compression. As soon as the compression algo sees similar colors and shades, you can bet they're going to get banded together - and that's exactly what happens when your shadows get too dark, they look similar enough to band into a black block. Noise reduction has nothing to do with it.

However, you have far more leeway on this if you're shooting with the correct settings (None 0,0,0 for well-lit scenes, None +1,0,0 for monochromatic or poorly lit scenes). What you have absolutely zero leeway with is your highlights. If you blow your highlights, they're gone. If shadows are a little too dark, you will be able to recover them. The detail might not be razor sharp, but there will be something there. It comes down to personal preference, but 99.999% of the time I'd rather have reduced shadow detail than zero highlight detail.

Bottom line, you have an absolutely razor fine edge to walk with this camera. ETTR does not apply. You have to expose perfectly every time or you will lose detail. Even when perfectly exposed, the dynamic range is very small. So if you're shooting a high range scene, you're going to have to choose what end of the histogram you clip, and in most cases it's better to clip the shadows than to have a pure white sky.

What's the best newbie guide to follow either on youtube or website walk through?

Just took a flight and my mavic did terribbbbbblleee..

 

[AyeYo]

What's the best newbie guide to follow either on youtube or website walk through?

Just took a flight and my mavic did terribbbbbblleee..

As far as, what? What are you looking to learn?

For Mavic specific issues, it's as simple as shooting in None 0,0,0 99% of the time. For camera settings beyond that, don't look up drone or Mavic specific videos on Youtube. Just look up photography lessons - the principles and camera setting fundamentals don't change no matter what platform you're shooting with. Once you understand the basics of digital photography (and you'll get that better from a video on how to use a DSLR than a video on how to use the Mavic from a fake "expert"), you'll understand all the Mavic shortcomings and how to avoid them. Maybe I'll find the time to make a video myself one of these days.

This might be a really good starting place and you can read through at your own pace rather than trying to follow along with a video.

The Ultimate Guide to Learning how to use Your first DSLR

 

[Craig540]

Question guys ? How do i see the Exif data from Mavic video files.

 

[twitchyzero]

has anyone noticed severe watercoloring since FW .0600? I never had any prior.

I thought it was my new PolarPro Vivid CPL/ND filters but the still images are perfect fine

I thought it might be my default windows video player but my old Mavic footage prior to the update is still fine

granted I'm still on the settings from FW 0.400 (D-log, I think -1,-2,-2??)...the results were fine for that firmware

Are there any mention they changed the picture profile and or tweaks to videos for this latest update?

Will have to test again with a flight today.

 

[AyeYo]

(D-log, I think -1,-2,-2??)

Surely that has nothing to do with your watercolor problems.

 

[twitchyzero]

I'm just going off by memory, but if you bothered reading my post I had no watercolor issues with that setting on .0400 (someone who tests Mavic settings frequently on Youtube recommended it...it graded well without filters)

so instead of snark comments, I would like to know if anyone knows if DJI have changed profiles/image quality via FW .0600

I'm going to run tests with default video settings but I thought there might be a few experts on watercolor issues so it was still worth bringing up? I mean that's what a community is for after all?

 

[AyeYo]

I'm just going off by memory, but if you bothered reading my post I had no watercolor issues with that setting on .0400 (someone who tests Mavic settings frequently on Youtube recommended it...it graded well without filters)

so instead of snark comments, I would like to know if anyone knows if DJI have changed profiles/image quality via FW .0600

I'm going to run tests with default video settings but I thought there might be a few experts on watercolor issues so it was still worth bringing up? I mean that's what a community is for after all?

Nothing was changed going to .0600 that would change your shot quality, but 50 pages of this thread and countless tests have determined that:

1. d-log is useless
2. Negative sharpness produces watercolor nearly 100% of the time
3. Youtube "experts" are anything but

Maybe you didn't notice watercolor before or maybe you had ideal shooting conditions so it wasn't bad enough to notice. The first thing to try is None 0,0,0 and report back.

 

[Bintryin]

.600 firmware sure did change my Mavic setting to useless . so I'm back on .400 I think it reset everything back to 1080 p and MUSH!!!!

 

[Ziggy01]

Weird.

I'm running .6 and after resetting the camera settings I've had nothing but perfect lock and excellent pictures. Lately I've experienced a little gimbal tilt but nothing that wasn't fixed by recalibration. If you ETTL (slightly) and set your settings to None or Cinelike at +1 sharpness you'll get excellent shots. Personally I prefer 2.7k as in my opinion there are less compression artefacts.