Don't have your FAA Part 107? You might be flying illegally even if for recreation purposes

[SkyDogII]

So I've heard - I never took one in the US. So if they were more difficult, as in other countries, do you think that would encourage unlicensed driving?

Sar I was trying to point out that unlicensed driving occurs all the time. And that stupid CA now lets non-residents get a license. That's all. The DMV tests are not that hard. Its all up to the in-car tester to pass or fail you. My daughter took the driving test and the instructor flat-out told here that he didn't want to pass her. She missed a few things, but not enough and he let her pass.

it goes for everything in life.... honest people follow the rules....

Just like private party gun sales... You are supposed to go through a "dealer/ffl holder" to transfer a firearm to someone...
Really, you think that law prevents unauthorized transactions? All you need to do is look at California's gun laws. there's a work around for most things. I can still buy an AR-15 or AK-47 or any other modern sporting rifle in California. If I have certain features on it, it gets classified and registered as one thing. If it is a feature-less build, then you can put a 30 round magazine in it. If its the other one, you can't.... How stupid is that? It's the same firearm.... regardless of how it is put together... Do you know
how many people i know that break that simple rule?

 

[sar104]

Sar I was trying to point out that unlicensed driving occurs all the time. And that stupid CA now lets non-residents get a license. That's all. The DMV tests are not that hard. Its all up to the in-car tester to pass or fail you. My daughter took the driving test and the instructor flat-out told here that he didn't want to pass her. She missed a few things, but not enough and he let her pass.

it goes for everything in life.... honest people follow the rules....

Just like private party gun sales... You are supposed to go through a "dealer/ffl holder" to transfer a firearm to someone...
Really, you think that law prevents unauthorized transactions? All you need to do is look at California's gun laws. there's a work around for most things. I can still buy an AR-15 or AK-47 or any other modern sporting rifle in California. If I have certain features on it, it gets classified and registered as one thing. If it is a feature-less build, then you can put a 30 round magazine in it. If its the other one, you can't.... How stupid is that? It's the same firearm.... regardless of how it is put together... Do you know
how many people i know that break that simple rule?

All very fascinating, but you completely avoided the question. My point, that you took issue with, was about the quality of the test, not whether people follow the laws. Are you arguing for a harder driving test, an easier driving test, or no test at all because some people drive unlicensed anyway? A bit more focus on the question at hand and a bit less "but whatabout...<insert talking point>" would make this discussion more valuable.

 

[SkyDogII]

I did answer your question. I said Yes. Post #62. So that means that if the tests are harder less people would take them.

in reality I don’t think the Difficulty of the test matters. People drive illegally for all types of reasons. Such as suspended license, driving without insurance, driving without registration, driving a registered non-op vehicle. All those are illegal.
People’s decisions to do something, be it illegal or legal only are made by Their morals and their upbringing. I choose to have faith In The human race and that people do the right thing.

and sorry for tying to give you other examples, I wasn’t saying but what about......just giving you more examples of how the laws are not followed in other areas that you might not be familiar with you don’t seem like a firearms enthusiast to me.

 

[sar104]

I did answer your question. I said Yes. Post #62. So that means that if the tests are harder less people would take them.

in reality I don’t think the Difficulty of the test matters. People drive illegally for all types of reasons. Such as suspended license, driving without insurance, driving without registration, driving a registered non-op vehicle. All those are illegal.
People’s decisions to do something, be it illegal or legal only are made by Their morals and their upbringing. I choose to have faith In The human race and that people do the right thing.

and sorry for tying to give you other examples, I wasn’t saying but what about......just giving you more examples of how the laws are not followed in other areas that you light not be familiar with you don’t seem like a firearms enthusiast to me.

But the difficulty of the test does matter - if you make it easy then no one has to be competent, and so increased participation in the program doesn't buy much. A harder test at least ensures that most of the drivers on the road are competent, and reasonable enforcement makes the consequences of driving unlicensed sufficiently bad to be a deterrent.

 

[SkyDogII]

I don’t know about the second part of the last sentence you said. Have you seen the drivers in Los Angeles or San Francisco? Really you call them competent? It takes experience to become a competent driver. Not just passing a hard test and learning facts. You can be super book smart and not have common sense at all.


As far as reasonable enforcement. Really I barely see any police on the freeways of Los Angeles and Orange County. No one is getting pulled over for looking like they don’t have a drivers license.
For instance. You need to have two or three peeps in the car for you to drive in the designated high occupancy vehicle lane, or the carpool lane. Is a $400 fine enough of a deterrent to keep a single driver out of the HOV lane? No. I see so many people driving solo in that lane it’s ridiculous.

oh I forgot. How about driving without insurance? You need to have at least liability insurance in CA to drive. There’s so many uninsured motorists out there. That’s why the insurance companies offer that policy. When you get stopped by the police, they ask for proof of insurance. If you don’t have it you get a ticket and need to appear in court. If you don’t get it and don’t clear the ticket by the time your registration comes for renewal, you will get blacklisted. You won’t be able to register your vehicle until you pay the fines etc. is that enough of a deterrent? How about if your unregistered vehicle gets towed? Then you need to clear all your violations up. Then you need to get the car out of impound. Possibly $500 per day may be owed to the towing yard. Plus a storage fee. Is that enough of a deterrent?

for violating a federal firearms law like selling a stolen firearm or what not. It’s a 10 year prison sentence. Does that deter gang members from selling guns on the street? No it doesn’t.

it’s back to being an honest person and doing the right thing. your moral makeup, your background, your parents influence.

Drivers in the USA and let’s say The UK are very different. I visited England, Scotland and Ireland a couple months back. I did many land tours. I noticed that the UK drivers are actually nicer than the drivers I see In The USA.

 

[sar104]

I don’t know about the second part of the last sentence you said. Have you seen the drivers in Los Angeles or San Francisco? Really you call them competent? It takes experience to become a competent driver. Not just passing a hard test and learning facts. You can be super book smart and not have common sense at all.

That's the point - the US driving test, as far as I can tell, is far too easy.

As far as reasonable enforcement. Really I barely see any police on the freeways of Los Angeles and Orange County. No one is getting pulled over for looking like they don’t have a drivers license.
For instance. You need to have two or three peeps in the car for you to drive in the designated high occupancy vehicle lane, or the carpool lane. Is a $400 fine enough of a deterrent to keep a single driver out of the HOV lane? No. I see so many people driving solo in that lane it’s ridiculous.

I'm not arguing about the quality or consistency of law enforcement - it's the same here - the police almost never stop anyone for bad driving. Many of the police officers are also poor drivers, so they probably don't even see it.

oh I forgot. How about driving without insurance? You need to have at least liability insurance in CA to drive. There’s so many uninsured motorists out there. That’s why the insurance companies offer that policy. When you get stopped by the police, they ask for proof of insurance. If you don’t have it you get a ticket and need to appear in court. If you don’t get it and don’t clear the ticket by the time your registration comes for renewal, you will get blacklisted. You won’t be able to register your vehicle until you pay the fines etc. is that enough of a deterrent? How about if your unregistered vehicle gets towed? Then you need to clear all your violations up. Then you need to get the car out of impound. Possibly $500 per day may be owed to the towing yard. Plus a storage fee. Is that enough of a deterrent?

See my previous answer. You are still conflating qualification with enforcement.

for violating a federal firearms law like selling a stolen firearm or what not. It’s a 10 year prison sentence. Does that deter gang members from selling guns on the street? No it doesn’t.

And so your recommendation for dealing with law breakers is what, exactly?

it’s back to being an honest person and doing the right thing. your moral makeup, your background, your parents influence.

Different people have vastly different ideas of "the right thing". That's one reason why civilized societies codify a basic set of "right and wrong" guidelines as laws.

Drivers in the USA and let’s say The UK are very different. I visited England, Scotland and Ireland a couple months back. I did many land tours. I noticed that the UK drivers are actually nicer than the drivers I see In The USA.

They also take a much more difficult driving test.

 

[SkyDogII]

Dude really. You said haven’t taken the us test so how do you know.

And you missed my point. No amount of test taking and studying is going to Make you proficient or competent. you may be book smart but. No common sense. What’s going to be more beneficial In Life? It takes experience, doing it every day, the same way. Why do you think the military and police train so much? Muscle memory. You do it the same way every time. It becomes natural. It becomes second nature. You take other things like emotions out of the equation and perform the same in an emergency.

I’m not a professional aviator, but that’s why you need to have a certain amount of hours under your belt to get a pilots license. I have a couple friends that are trying to get theirs. Thousands of dollars and many hours of instruction. They still haven’t completed the program after three years.

You expect the same proficiency from a drivers test I think you are asking for too much from humans

and people are different. That’s why it comes down to your individual morals and upbringing. Oh and their mental capacity. I mean if you are a damaged case... well...

I gotta cut this one short. My bar-b-que is ready to go and I’ve got some great steaks for the grill. Oh yeah. Great weather here in CA. Another perfect 70 degree night! No bugs either. Just stupid politicians and high taxes!

Thanks for the chat sar. Love the work you do on reviewing the flight logs for the forums. You definitely have that down

 

[sar104]

Dude really. You said haven’t taken the us test so how do you know.

Because I live here, I've seen what the test comprises, I've talked to countless people who have taken it, I've taken the UK drivers test, and I've observed the miserable standard of driving here compared to the UK and most of western Europe. Apart from that, no - I've no idea at all.

And you missed my point. No amount of test taking and studying is going to Make you proficient or competent. you may be book smart but. No common sense. What’s going to be more beneficial In Life? It takes experience, doing it every day, the same way. Why do you think the military and police train so much? Muscle memory. You do it the same way every time. It becomes natural. It becomes second nature. You take other things like emotions out of the equation and perform the same in an emergency.

And again - the extension of that argument is no test at all, or what are you proposing?

I’m not a professional aviator, but that’s why you need to have a certain amount of hours under your belt to get a pilots license. I have a couple friends that are trying to get theirs. Thousands of dollars and many hours of instruction. They still haven’t completed the program after three years.

You expect the same proficiency from a drivers test I think you are asking for too much from humans

What I'd like is for you to quit with the straw man arguments, because I never said that the drivers test should be equivalent to a pilot license, or a Ph.D or MD, or anything else for that matter. And I'd really like you to answer the question that you continue to evade; do you think there should be a drivers test at all?

and people are different. That’s why it comes down to your individual morals and upbringing. Oh and their mental capacity. I mean if you are a damaged case... well...

So all laws are pointless then? After all, all laws get broken.