Drone ordinance lawsuit (part 2) updated with video

[deleted member 877]

There is basically two ways to fight an illegal ordinance, like this one. You can take the government entity to court to get an injunction or you can ignore the ordinance until issued a citation and fight the criminal charges. The latter is more risky, but is a viable option. It's also likely to be much quicker of a solution.

I actually was well on my way to completing option 2, but before I got to court, they replaced the old ordinance with a new one and threw my case out.

OK so that bites. So where does this leave you? I figure that you don't want to go through the whole proces a second time.

 

[Lapeer20m]

OK so that bites. So where does this leave you? I figure that you don't want to go through the whole proces a second time.

honestly, having all your items confiscated and facing criminal charges, even if they are bogus, is no fun.

This method, where we essentially flipped the tables and forced the county to come to court to explain their actions to a judge is much less stressful.

while this case has dragged on much longer than anticipated, I expect to have a decision before the end of this month and we will get all that we ask for.
Judge Farah has been most excellent. He is fair, he read all of the documents before the first hearing and was well educated on the facts of the case. Even if we don’t get everything we ask for I have no doubt the ruling will have a solid legal basis.

 

[GadgetGuy]

honestly, having all your items confiscated and facing criminal charges, even if they are bogus, is no fun.

This method, where we essentially flipped the tables and forced the county to come to court to explain their actions to a judge is much less stressful.

while this case has dragged on much longer than anticipated, I expect to have a decision before the end of this month and we will get all that we ask for.
Judge Farah has been most excellent. He is fair, he read all of the documents before the first hearing and was well educated on the facts of the case. Even if we don’t get everything we ask for I have no doubt the ruling will have a solid legal basis.

Can't any ruling, whichever way it goes, simply be appealed, and isn't that to be expected by the losing side?

 

[Lapeer20m]

Can't any ruling, whichever way it goes, simply be appealed, and isn't that to be expected by the losing side?

My understanding is that If you are charged with a crime and demand a jury trial, and you are found guilty by a jury of your peers, a successful appeal is unlikely. (we demanded a jury trial when i was originally charged)

If you choose this other option, and request an injunction, the loser can choose to appeal. I have seen lower court judges rule on emotion rather than law and have their rulings overturned. Ones chance of having this sort of ruling overturned on appeal is much greater than the first example (criminal jury trial)

 

[GadgetGuy]

My understanding is that If you are charged with a crime and demand a jury trial, and you are found guilty by a jury of your peers, a successful appeal is unlikely. (we demanded a jury trial when i was originally charged)

If you choose this other option, and request an injunction, the loser can choose to appeal. I have seen lower court judges rule on emotion rather than law and have their rulings overturned. Ones chance of having this sort of ruling overturned on appeal is much greater than the first example (criminal jury trial)

The problem with the criminal trial is that a not guilty verdict does not invalidate the ordinance. Judges tend to rule very narrowly, and deliberately limit their decisions to the specific facts of the case at hand, as opposed to making new law or overturning existing laws/ordinances. A not guilty finding does not prevent the defendant from being recharged with the same offense on another occasion, where a guilty finding might result, as the cops and the prosecutor learn from their mistakes in the first case, that resulted in a not guilty finding. The law has to be interpreted, and applied to the facts at hand, and judges' interpretations of the law can be flawed, even if emotion plays no role. It is merely a legal opinion of a judge. Reasonable judges can disagree and have different opinions of the same case.

It's difficult to fight city hall, but I admire your determination!

 

[DoomMeister]

@Lapeer20m , I believe congratulations are in order for your victory in the courts today. Just saw this in our sister forum a few minutes ago.

On going preliminary injunction hearing for the MCDO v Genesee County case

Roughly one month after the initial preliminary injunction hearing for the MCDO v Genesee County case regarding the ability to fly drones in the Genesee County Public Parks, drone operators once again filed into a Flint, Michigan courtroom. MCDO, short for Michigan Coalition of Drone Operators...

yuneecpilots.com

 

[GadgetGuy]

Surely there must be some appeals process that Genessee County can still use to appeal Judge Farah's ruling today to the Appellate Court, in the same way the defendant was planning to appeal, had the decision gone against him. Even an Appellate Court ruling can be appealed to the Supreme Court. Genessee County still managed to enforce their controversial drone ordinance until now, so they still prohibited all drone flying until now. A local county court sets no precedent that is binding upon the Appellate Courts, the Supreme Court, nor any other state's courts. While it is a small victory, it is still far from final, and it is certainly not binding upon any other court.

 

[Maviac]

Can't any ruling, whichever way it goes, simply be appealed, and isn't that to be expected by the losing side?

Most rulings can be appealed. But to say they can “simply be appealed” is overlooking the costs of these things. Experienced appellate lawyers typically charge at least $5-10,000 to handle an appeal (for an appellant), at least to a state appellate court (maybe less for a municipal or lower court appeal). And a federal appeal would be at least 2x that. These things can be extremely complex and time consuming.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Most rulings can be appealed. But to say they can “simply be appealed” is overlooking the costs of these things. Experienced appellate lawyers typically charge at least $5-10,000 to handle an appeal (for an appellant), at least to a state appellate court (maybe less for a municipal or lower court appeal). And a federal appeal would be at least 2x that. These things can be extremely complex and time consuming.

Indeed, which is why the deck is stacked in favor of the house. The County has a full staff of lawyers on a fixed salary to do whatever they are told, and while they are appealing the ruling, it most likely also restores the prior status quo. The counties often get into pissing matches with their state over authority, and certainly don't like accepting any ruling from a local magistrate which limits their authority.

 

[DoomMeister]

Surely there must be some appeals process that Genessee County can still use to appeal Judge Farah's ruling today to the Appellate Court, in the same way the defendant was planning to appeal, had the decision gone against him. Even an Appellate Court ruling can be appealed to the Supreme Court. Genessee County still managed to enforce their controversial drone ordinance until now, so they still prohibited all drone flying until now. A local county court sets no precedent that is binding upon the Appellate Courts, the Supreme Court, nor any other state's courts. While it is a small victory, it is still far from final, and it is certainly not binding upon any other court.

I don’t think the citizens of Genesee County would stand for the County to waste any more money on fighting a State Law. There are many things the money needs to be spent on starting with the craters in many roads due to improperly repairing them with cold patch year after year.

If they appeal this decision I will be all over the County Commisioners for wasting our tax dollars. I’m already not voting for my incumbent Commissioner because she blew me off in an email where I was asking her position on this issue. The Commission appoints the members of the Park Board that made the illegal rule in the first place.

Thanks go out to Judge Farah in this case. The citizens of Genesee County appreciate you being a pillar of justice for our County!

 

[GadgetGuy]

I don’t think the citizens of Genesee County would stand for the County to waste any more money on fighting a State Law. There are many things the money needs to be spent on starting with the craters in many roads due to improperly repairing them with cold patch year after year.

Depends upon the level of anti-drone hysteria among the public, which is being fueled daily by the media! If the District Attorney ran on an anti-drone platform, they would be merely keeping their promises to their constituents to ban all drone flying in the county! Pet projects always seem to take priority. Besides, the County's attorneys on salaries aren't paid to fix potholes!

 

[DoomMeister]

Depends upon the level of anti-drone hysteria among the public, which is being fueled daily by the media! If the District Attorney ran on an anti-drone platform, they would be merely keeping their promises to their constituents to ban all drone flying in the county! Pet projects always seem to take priority. Besides, the County's attorneys on salaries aren't paid to fix potholes!

The District Attorney is the one that said the Park Rangers had no case against @Lapeer20m back in 2018. Then the Park Board enacted their new rule that the MCDO fought in court.

 

[GadgetGuy]

The District Attorney is the one that said the Park Rangers had no case against @Lapeer20m back in 2018. Then the Park Board enacted their new rule that the MCDO fought in court.

Interesting. Whose attorneys were prosecuting the violations, and defending the validity of the new Park Board rule against @Lapeer20m 's challenge?

 

[Lapeer20m]

VICTORY! And not a partial one either. This is a complete and total victory!

sorry, I’m a little late to The thread.

the county can choose to appeal and they have to make that decision within 30 days (maybe 21 day)

we want them to appeal. As a previous poster mentioned, this decision is not legally binding on other lower courts. Although it can be used for ammunition when fighting cases in other places.

it’ll cost a lot of money. Estimates are 200 hours of labor. our attorney, who is brilliant btw, is willing to take this all the way to the mi Supreme Court if necessary.

 

[Lapeer20m]

Interesting. Whose attorneys were prosecuting the violations, and defending the validity of the new Park Board rule against @Lapeer20m 's challenge?

the original criminal charge for ascending or descending in an airplane was handled by the prosecutors office. That charge was never authorized, so case dismissed.

The court case mentioned in this thread,
Our request for an injunction, was handled by an outside private law firm hired by the county.

a FOIA request will be submitted shortly and we should know how much money the county spent on legal costs so far. A similar municipality, fighting a similar law spent more than $100k taking their fight to the appeals court, and losing.

 

[Lapeer20m]

Indeed, which is why the deck is stacked in favor of the house. The County has a full staff of lawyers on a fixed salary to do whatever they are told, and while they are appealing the ruling, it most likely also restores the prior status quo. The counties often get into pissing matches with their state over authority, and certainly don't like accepting any ruling from a local magistrate which limits their authority.

we will soon learn more about how the private law firm hired by the county is paid. There could be piles of attorneys on retainer just to fight this sort of thing, but my guess is that the county got billed for every hour this attorney worked on the case.

while lower court judges from my experience can rule all willy/nilly, our appeals court tends to vote much more in line with the law. We are on solid legal footing. The county doesn’t even have a coherent argument. I was concerned we may lose this first round but I am Confident we will win big at an appeal.

part of the reason the ruling took so long is because Judge Farah is expecting an appeal and wanted to make sure the stage was set properly.

side note, he was a fantastic judge. He was always engaged and seemed eager to be part of history as we all realize this is likely to be a big case. He also read every piece of paper submitted and was familiar with all the arguments before the first hearing began. This is unlike most other judges I’ve seen.

 

[GadgetGuy]

part of the reason the ruling took so long is because Judge Farah is expecting an appeal and wanted to make sure the stage was set properly.

If Judge Farah is expecting an appeal, I'm sure he has a good basis for that assumption. Sounds like an appeal will likely be filed, and the case will stay unresolved for the near future. Having an attorney handling the prospective appeal on your behalf on his dime definitely levels the playing field! It's fun to fight City Hall and win! Keep us posted!

 

[Lapeer20m]

More fun news!

Today the county amended their ordinances in an effort to thumb their nose at the judge And defy his court order!

unbelievable!

 

[DoomMeister]

I am drafting an email to my County Commissioner Ellen Ellenburg tomorrow asking her to investigate the Park Board’s ignorance and blatant disregard of state law and Judge Farah’s decision. This is downright ludicrous.

 

[Lapeer20m]

A pile of drone operators flew in these prohibited parks today without issue.