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Drone Pilot Nothern Ireland

From memory Carrick_A-Rede, Dunluce Castle and the Giant's Causeway are properties owned by the National Trust (NT), as maybe Mussenden Temple.
The National Trust has a blanket ban on flying drones from their properties.
That said you can take off outside their boundaries and overfly the sites.
Strictly speaking if you go below the high tide line at the Giant's Causeway you are, I think. on Crown Land, not NT land, but, given the wave size there, that might be dangerous.
Personally I would be inclined to visit the sites in the evening and fly then when there are few people about and any 'offices' were closed.

EDIT One other idea, has just come to mind, boat trips ???? A quick skim suggests they might be affordable.

I have almost reached Carrick A Rede from Portaneevy Carpark with a P3adv, "almost" because I didn't actually want to over fly the site even though it was empty and probably closed. I think it would be 'cool' to fly under the bridge but I wasn't going to risk a loss of connection.
Ditto Dunluce from MagheraCross CarPark.
The drone was VLOS which it probably would not be when using a Mini.
Mussenden I can't help with.
Ditto Dark Hedges though I would be surprised if it is NT ...... BUT it is a publc and fairly well travelled road, by both cars and pedestrians, so you might have problems in that respect.

One problem I forsee with all the coastal sites in N. Ireland is the likelyhood of wind.

The entire Antrim Coastline from, Portrush to Larne is all picturesque IMO.
If you are driving I think you have missed a few places.
In no particular order, Kinbane Head, Fairhead, Murlough Bay* ( If it's still there there is or are some very wind swept 'trees' on the top.
Dunseverick Harbour (don't know about the castle ).
The coast road, as in along the shoreline, east of Ballycastle offers some great views of the west of Fairhead.
Port Bradden but VERY limited parking and be respectful of the locals' privacy, your are walking past their front doors if you walk N & E along the coast. (Rough going in some places)
Ballintoy (Game of Throne's site ).
Torr Head* especially when there's a good tide running, ( I think the road from Torr Head to Cushendun is brilliant at SLOW speeds but it may not be to your taste. I do mean go SLOW, it's a narrow road with blind summits and corners and it is used by farmers and school buses.)
* = STEEP.
Glendun Viaduct ( but the question is where could you safely stop to take photos or fly ).
One of the Cushen ... dun/dall, I can never remember which but it is probably Cushendall, has a mountain behind it that I think will be absolutely stunning by drone, I've never managed to get a good shot via hand held camera. Also in Cushendall? if you are there in the evening and possibly at the correct time of year and look SE from the carpark at 55°04'21.0"N 6°03'15.8"W? the evening shadows create a perfect King Kong silouhette on the 'cliffs' across the bay.

Car Park at Garron Point? for tilted strata in the headland. Not sure if that's the correct location, the google street view images don't do it justice if it is but when going up the coast it always catches my eye.

It's probably Glenarrif but there are some gorgeous views down the valley/glen from the road up on top of the Antrim Plateau, a drone would probably be ideal for this as trees block the view from the road in most places, It's at least half of a "U shaped valley ".

Linford carpark on the Feystown Road above Carncastle (some old forts and barrows ).

In the Republic, the Gap of Dunlow if you are that far south and Slieve League in Donegal might be worth a visit.
Errigal.

Remember you will need two sets of 'licenses', an EU one for the South and a UK one for the North.
You might also run into the 120m ceiling in the South.

It might be worth asking this guy,
Many of his videos are shot around the N & E coast of Co. Antrim, I have no idea if he answers such questions but I recognise some of his locations.
 
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What an amazing, informative replay! Thank you so much for taking the time to provide such a detailed response to my question! Really appreciate it!

I'm a "little" better than beginner drone pilot, so some of your more technical info flew over my head, but I definitely got the main points. I'm going to reread your post a couple times then probably ask a few more questions.

Real quick question: Will flying a Mini 4 Pro (sub 250g) make any difference if flying in Ireland? If so, what advantages does flying the Mini 4 Pro offer over a heavier drone?
 
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Okay... time to ask some stupid, naive, ignorant questions.

What's the difference between Crown Land and National Trust land?

Is it safe to assume (yes, I know what that makes) if a flight originates from public land but goes over National Trust land (Carrick_A-Rede, Dunluce Castle, Giant's Causeway, etc.) it is not breaking any laws (assuming under 400', line of sight, not over people, line of sight, etc.)?

The DJI Geo Zone map for Ireland does not show, for example, Giant's Causeway as a no-fly zone. But it seems it is a no-fly zone. How can a visitor to R. of Ireland and N. Ireland find out where the no-fly zones are and where the public land is to launch a flight meant to fly over National Trust land?

I want to be respectful of the national and local laws, the Irish people, the land and the wildlife. Is it simply best to fly over these touristy sites early in the morning or late at night?

If I'm flying a sub 250g drone, so I need to get Irish, English, EU licenses and/or register my drone for flying in Ireland and N. Ireland?

Are all the scary stories (jail, huge fines, carrying an insane amount of insurance, etc.) simply meant to scare off people from flying their drones?

One other idea, has just come to mind, boat trips ? Is this a way to get around flying at National Trust sites?

Sorry for the newbie, probably foolish questions. I just want to make sure A. It's worth taking a drone to Ireland. B. I don't break any laws should I fly a drone.
 
Okay... time to ask some stupid, naive, ignorant questions.

What's the difference between Crown Land and National Trust land?

Is it safe to assume (yes, I know what that makes) if a flight originates from public land but goes over National Trust land (Carrick_A-Rede, Dunluce Castle, Giant's Causeway, etc.) it is not breaking any laws (assuming under 400', line of sight, not over people, line of sight, etc.)?

The DJI Geo Zone map for Ireland does not show, for example, Giant's Causeway as a no-fly zone. But it seems it is a no-fly zone. How can a visitor to R. of Ireland and N. Ireland find out where the no-fly zones are and where the public land is to launch a flight meant to fly over National Trust land?

I want to be respectful of the national and local laws, the Irish people, the land and the wildlife. Is it simply best to fly over these touristy sites early in the morning or late at night?

If I'm flying a sub 250g drone, so I need to get Irish, English, EU licenses and/or register my drone for flying in Ireland and N. Ireland?

Are all the scary stories (jail, huge fines, carrying an insane amount of insurance, etc.) simply meant to scare off people from flying their drones?

One other idea, has just come to mind, boat trips ? Is this a way to get around flying at National Trust sites?

Sorry for the newbie, probably foolish questions. I just want to make sure A. It's worth taking a drone to Ireland. B. I don't break any laws should I fly a drone.
With nat. trust, it's only take off and landing within the boundaries of the property that they can forbid. Airspace is still classified as a public/state asset with the exception of flying near, over or through airports, airfields, prisons, military sites etc which are red(RED) zones. Other temporary or permanent areas marked blue on the GZM map are only restricted if they have an official NOTAM attached to them, otherwise it is just an advisory.
Crown land is a different kettle of fish altogether, but with CROWN FORESHORE & ESTUARY (the area on any beach or estuary between mean high tide and mean low tide) the Crown Estate has granted permission for drones to use this land for TOAL.
 
With nat. trust, it's only take off and landing within the boundaries of the property that they can forbid.
How does a person know if they are on National Trust land?

And is the National Trust thing for both Republic of Ireland and N. Ireland or just one or the other?
 
How does a person know if they are on National Trust land?

And is the National Trust thing for both Republic of Ireland and N. Ireland or just one or the other?
The N.T publish an on-line property map (very handy). The Crown Estate have an on-line map for foreshore & estuary.
The N.T is a thing for N.I.
The ROI operates under EASA rules (it is still a member state of the EU.)
 
The N.T publish an on-line property map (very handy).

The ROI operates under EASA rules (it is still a member state of the EU.)
Where can I get a copy of the NT property map? I googled them but the map on their website only had a specific pinpoints, no areas of property.

Other than what is on the DJI no-fly app, which seems to only focus on airports, is there a map of the Republic of Ireland showing what tourist sites have fly or no-fly zones?

Is geo fencing a thing in ROI and/or NI like it is in the states?
 
Where can I get a copy of the NT property map? I googled them but the map on their website only had a specific pinpoints, no areas of property.

Other than what is on the DJI no-fly app, which seems to only focus on airports, is there a map of the Republic of Ireland showing what tourist sites have fly or no-fly zones?

Is geo fencing a thing in ROI and/or NI like it is in the states?
Search bar: type National Trust land map.
When on their page, click on 'view map'.
Centre map on where you are interested.
Zoom in... keep on zooming in. Give the map page enough time to render.

This map is geographically accurate and comprehensive.
If you want to look at it on-the-hoof: bookmark the map page.

No 'tourist site' can declare their area a no-fly zone. If they did, they would be in breach of current U.K Aviation Law. They CAN dictate no TOAL from land they administer but cannot inhibit overflight, especially if the overflight of a specific area represents one 'waypoint' on a longer, continuous flight.
You must, however, comply with Aviation Regulations concerning safe flight near built structures or natural assets, overflight of people, VLOS and altitude.

Local councils can introduce bye-laws banning drone TOAL from land they administer, so check those as well.

Geofencing? Bit of a strange subject at present. U.K DJI geozones are being replaced by a standard GZM being created and administered by Altitude Angel. But DJI geozones in N.I? Yes.
In the ROI - the Geozone map is in accordance with the EU EASA GZM.
 
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The more I research (watch youtube videos) the more it seems like N. Ireland is not a drone-friendly country when it comes to filming their beautiful coastline natural attractions. Plus, my wife is stressing the tension between the two countries are starting to worsen. So I'm going to look more closely at Republic of Ireland.

The maps you folks have linked have been quite helpful. But in reading experiences shared by other drone pilots, it seems flying a drone at the Cliffs of Moher is STRICTLY prohibited. But none of the maps show the Cliffs as a no-fly zone. If this area (and areas in Ireland like it) are no-fly zones due to local laws (similar to National Trust land), is there a map of the Republic of Ireland showing these areas?

As always, many, many thanks for all the help and patience (for all my simpleton questions like... what does TOAL mean?).
 
The more I research (watch youtube videos) the more it seems like N. Ireland is not a drone-friendly country when it comes to filming their beautiful coastline natural attractions. Plus, my wife is stressing the tension between the two countries are starting to worsen. So I'm going to look more closely at Republic of Ireland.

The maps you folks have linked have been quite helpful. But in reading experiences shared by other drone pilots, it seems flying a drone at the Cliffs of Moher is STRICTLY prohibited. But none of the maps show the Cliffs as a no-fly zone. If this area (and areas in Ireland like it) are no-fly zones due to local laws (similar to National Trust land), is there a map of the Republic of Ireland showing these areas?

As always, many, many thanks for all the help and patience (for all my simpleton questions like... what does TOAL mean?).
You are most welcome.
Keep in mind that any 'restriction' to the flying of drones you see listed or signposted at NT, Historic England, or any other tourist site is a restriction on the use of their LAND for the purpose of TOAL (Take Off And Landing). Regardless of what any barrack-room lawyer wearing an employee badge says.
Even the people who program the UK and ROI geozone map (Altitude Angel) will tell you that there is no way under current aviation legislation that anyone can stop you overflying land that has not been legally proscribed (airports, airfields, prisons, military infrastructure, government sites or areas temporarily or permanently classified as no-fly zones by officially CAA registered NOTAM's (NOtice To AirMen) as long as you do so in a responsible and law abiding manner.
The document that sets out what you can and cannot do can be downloaded from the CAA website. It is titled: CAP722.
 
The N.T is a thing for N.I.
The NT operates through out the UK though in the context of this thread it is applicable to only N.Ireland.
Incidentally I would guess the N.T. can also prevent the pilot from being on their land whilst controlling a drone and that probably extends to sitting in a car in a car park that is on N.T. land.

What's the difference between Crown Land and National Trust land?
Crown Land is owned by the Crown, N.T. land is owned by the N.T.

Sorry, for some reason I did not get notifications of new replies to this thread or I missed them.
 
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The NT operates through out the UK though in the context of this thread it is applicable to only N.Ireland.
Incidentally I would guess the N.T. can also prevent the pilot from being on their land whilst controlling a drone and that probably extends to sitting in a car in a car park that is on N.T. land.


Crown Land is owned by the Crown, N.T. land is owned by the N.T.

Sorry, for some reason I did not get notifications of new replies to this thread or I missed them.
As soon as you set foot within their land boundary, yes. That includes having the remote in your mitts. Being inside a car on their land is the same as being on foot on their land.
I have it on very good authority that within 6 to 12 months, a lot of NT properties will be operating Guardian UTM geocages, which means TOAL on certain specific NT land will be allowed as long as you use Drone Assist/Altitude Angel map apps to unlock the area.... and ONLY after you have paid a per-flight fee by credit/ debit card.
The current per-flight fee is £10.00 but the land manager can set their own rates for different areas within that geocage.
 
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Wow! You guys are amazing. Again, thank you for your patience. I'm sure you are frustrated by my lack of understanding and asking, possibly, redundant questions. I just want to make double/triple sure when I arrive at these amazing sites I can fly my drone without having to worry about spending the night in the local jail!

We're planning our trip for mid-September, which is over six months away. So, if we go to N. Ireland, which I desperately want to do, I may have to deal with UTM geocages.

Okay, three scenarios. What would you do?

Scenario 1: My wife and I are going to see Giant's Causeway in N. Ireland, a National Trust Property. So we get up super early to avoid the crowds, throw the Mini 4 Pro in the backpack, and we drive (on the wrong side of the road, I might add :)) to the site. It's an absolutely beautiful day: no wind, puffy white clouds, and no other people. So I pull out the drone. But, knowing I can't launch on National Trust property, I look for a launch site. How do I know when I'm on or off NT property? I checked their website, but as far as I can tell they only provide pin-points to a specific spot, not a highlighted area showing where their land starts and ends.

Scenario 2: We are driving to the Cliffs of Moher in the Republic of Ireland. It's crowded, lots of people walking along the cliff area. But it's another beautiful day to fly a drone: no wind, no fog, and puffy white clouds. But when I get out of the car I see signs saying, "No Drone Flying." I'll likely never be at the Cliffs of Moher again in my life, and I desperately want to get some drone footage. Should I abide by the signs and leave the drone in the car? Should I walk about a half-mile away from the Cliffs, launch, then fly over the Cliffs? And let's say I work up the courage to fly and some guy comes up to me and says in an authoritative voice, "Hey, you can't fly a drone here. I'm reporting you." What should I do? Get on the first flight back to the States before my name hits Interpol?

Scenario 3: My wife are arriving at a less popular tourist site than the Cliffs in the Republic of Ireland, maybe Muckross Abbey. There's a fair amount of people around. It might be hard to avoid flying over one or two people. Should I not fly because of the people in the area? Should I fly but launch off-site and hope no people are where I'm flying? Should I launch on-site and not be so paranoid?

Yikes... lots of questions! Sorry. As always, any response is appreciated and helpful.
 
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Wow! You guys are amazing. Again, thank you for your patience. I'm sure you are frustrated by my lack of understanding and asking, possibly, redundant questions. I just want to make double/triple sure when I arrive at these amazing sites I can fly my drone without having to worry about spending the night in the local jail!

We're planning our trip for mid-September, which is over six months away. So, if we go to N. Ireland, which I desperately want to do, I may have to deal with UTM geocages.

Okay, three scenarios. What would you do?

Scenario 1: My wife and I are going to see Giant's Causeway in N. Ireland, a National Trust Property. So we get up super early to avoid the crowds, throw the Mini 4 Pro in the backpack, and we drive (on the wrong side of the road, I might add :)) to the site. It's an absolutely beautiful day: no wind, puffy white clouds, and no other people. So I pull out the drone. But, knowing I can't launch on National Trust property, I look for a launch site. How do I know when I'm on or off NT property? I checked their website, but as far as I can tell they only provide pin-points to a specific spot, not a highlighted area showing where their land starts and ends.

Scenario 2: We are driving to the Cliffs of Moher in the Republic of Ireland. It's crowded, lots of people walking along the cliff area. But it's another beautiful day to fly a drone: no wind, no fog, and puffy white clouds. But when I get out of the car I see signs saying, "No Drone Flying." I'll likely never be at the Cliffs of Moher again in my life, and I desperately want to get some drone footage. Should I abide by the signs and leave the drone in the car? Should I walk about a half-mile away from the Cliffs, launch, then fly over the Cliffs? And let's say I work up the courage to fly and some guy comes up to me and says in an authoritative voice, "Hey, you can't fly a drone here. I'm reporting you." What should I do? Get on the first flight back to the States before my name hits Interpol?

Scenario 3: My wife are arriving at a less popular tourist site than the Cliffs in the Republic of Ireland, maybe Muckross Abbey. There's a fair amount of people around. It might be hard to avoid flying over one or two people. Should I not fly because of the people in the area? Should I fly but launch off-site and hope no people are where I'm flying? Should I launch on-site and not be so paranoid?

Yikes... lots of questions! Sorry. As always, any response is appreciated and helpful.
A picture speaks a thousand words, hope this helps. Second set of screen grabs are of the Giants Causeway area as shown on the DJI FlySafe map and Altitude Angel map respectively.

Orange areas are areas you can legitimately fly in - they are "enhanced warning zones". Red and Blue areas are (or should be) locked.

land map example.jpg

Geozone maps of area.jpg
 
The previous post answers question #1 as comprehensively as I can.

Guardian UTM Land Management Geocages are still in their infancy - they are something that will be introduced slowly with regards to Heritage Assets. Altitude Angel sales men/women have to sell the concept of "Aerial Land Management" to the managers and owners of private estates or National Heritage assets. This is something you don't have to think about for the time being.

Before you fly in the North of Ireland: you need to register your drone with the CAA.

If there is anyone from the South who wants to chip in, I will defer to them, but here goes regarding my own thoughts.

Regarding the Republic.

i) The ROI works to EASA rules. They are a different Aviation Authority to the UK CAA. Before you try to fly in the ROI, you need to register your drone with the Irish Aviation Authority (completely different to the regulator north of the border: the CAA). The IAA are governed by the European Union Aviation Authority - the EASA. You would have to make yourself conversant with the IAA rulebook and dance to their tune, which includes respecting their version of Geozoning. Altitude Angel's geozone map marks fly and no-fly areas differently in the ROI.

ii) Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. If the IAA tells you you can't put a drone up in the air at any location: you can't. It is ALWAYS the Aviation Authority that has jurisdiction over the use of airspace. The landowner has jurisdiction regarding what can, or can't be done by anyone with their feet on land they manage and administer, but If you ain't sure - always play it safe. Also... don't forget that quite a few coastal areas have off-shore red(RED) no-fly zones because they're used for military manoeuvres. Check, double check and then send the IAA an e-mail asking specifically about the areas you want to photograph/shoot video of. Get the info straight from the horses mouth.

iii) Wherever you visit, try very hard not to fly where there are people milling around. Best time of day for any shoot is either golden hour morning (just as the sun rises over the horizon until about half an hour later) and golden hour evening (just as the sun is getting really low on the horizon). The benefit with this is that morning: most people are still sleeping off the Bushmills/Guinness hangover and evening: most people are more interested in starting to create a brand-new hangover experience. You will always find that less people equals less chance of complaint.
 
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I punched in ten of the places in the Republic of Ireland my wife and I were planning to visit into the Altitude Angel map. Super disappointed. Six of them were red, no-fly zones. Maybe the drone will be staying home.
 
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I punched in ten of the places in the Republic of Ireland my wife and I were planning to visit into the Altitude Angel map. Super disappointed. Six of them were red, no-fly zones. Maybe the drone will be staying home.
Before you throw in the towel, take a closer look at the marked areas on the AA map. Tap/click on one after another. This brings up the flight restriction details. The restriction appears as a coloured rectangle at the bottom of the screen. Tap/click on this and then scroll through the pop-up panel. AA shows all restrictions as red/blue zones. Unless it is a red(RED) zone (airport, prison, etc) or an area that is clearly detailed in the text as being specifically registered as NFZ, the warning circle is an ADVISORY and NOT a legal restriction. AA are buggers for doing this.
On a touristy related theme: if you want a close encounter with the proper ancient past of Ireland: take a look at the Hill Of Tara (County Meath) and especially Newgrange passage tomb. Built before the pyramids and AWESOME.
 

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