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Explanation of data stored on Mavic 2 AC internally???

DJIUser-Elon

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Connected a Mavic 2 Zoom to a PC via USB and DJI Assistant 2 for Mavic (current version)

AC connected and I went into Log Export and then clicked on Advanced

Under Advanced, there are several sections

  1. Flight Record and Sensing
    1. These appear to only go back 4 or 5 flights
  2. Navigation
    1. These appear to only go back a couple of days
  3. Gimbal
    1. These appear to only go back a couple of days
  4. Camera
    1. Nothing stored here
  5. FAM
    1. Appears to go back a considerable amount of time and seems to have all flights of the AC
  6. System1
    1. Nothing here
  7. System 2
    1. Nothing here
A few questions

What exact data is stored in these sections? I cannot seem to find a clear and concise up to date explanation

I spoke with DJI and there were extremely vague about it. I also have a concern that if I wished to sell the AC, that these logs stored internally on the AC are available. I've been told that "only DJI" can read these logs as they are encrypted but it is known that encryption can and possibly will be be broken in the future. Seems like a privacy concern. Imagine if you couldn't erase your iphone and the encrypted info remained inside, then maybe one day this encryption is broken and all of your private info was available to whomever had your iphone at that time.....

I've read that the logs are overwritten at some point due to internal storage constraints. No word on how much storage is actually used inside the AC to store these logs and how log it takes for data to be overwritten..

Any comments and insight would be appreciated as I cannot seem to find a more direct and clear thread that discusses this topic along these lines.
 

Meta4

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I spoke with DJI and there were extremely vague about it. I also have a concern that if I wished to sell the AC, that these logs stored internally on the AC are available.
I've been told that "only DJI" can read these logs as they are encrypted but it is known that encryption can and possibly will be be broken in the future.
Seems like a privacy concern.
Imagine if you couldn't erase your iphone and the encrypted info remained inside, then maybe one day this encryption is broken and all of your private info was available to whomever had your iphone at that time.....
What they told you was correct.
The flight logs contain detailed flight data that DJI can analyse to investigate a flight incident for a warranty claim.
If you could read it, it would be a lot like this: DJI Flight Log Viewer - PhantomHelp.com

It's not a privacy concern and nothing like losing your phone.
Your drone has no personal information in it.
Just lots of numbers showing where you flew, how much to moved the joysticks in each direction, motor rev speeds, heights, etc, etc.
 
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DavidT_ NZ

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What they told you was correct.
The flight logs contain detailed flight data that DJI can analyse to investigate a flight incident for a warranty claim.
If you could read it, it would be a lot like this: DJI Flight Log Viewer - PhantomHelp.com

It's not a privacy concern and nothing like losing your phone.
Your drone has no personal information in it.
Just lots of numbers showing where you flew, how much to moved the joysticks in each direction, motor rev speeds, heights, etc, etc.
To be clear, where you flew is personal information. DJI should be able to examine flight characteristics without knowing the geotagged position of the flight, only needing the XYZ deltas.
 
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Meta4

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To be clear, where you flew is personal information. DJI should be able to examine flight characteristics without knowing the geotagged position of the flight, only needing the XYZ deltas.
As someone that reads flight data to investigate flight incidents, I think what you are suggesting is nonsense.
 

DJIUser-Elon

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Thanks for the information.

So if an owner has no need to make a warranty or any other type of claim - why would DJI need this information? Why can an owner not have the choice to remove this information from the drone as they do with removing it from their telephone or smart controller? I feel that I were to sell my drone, I would not want any data related to where I was flying (or anything else) available to another party at any time - so yes it seems similar to me to that of my phone analogy.

Back to the original post....

  1. What is recorded/stored in the FAM data section?
  2. I've read that the logs are overwritten at some point due to internal storage constraints. Anyone know how much storage is actually used inside the AC to store these logs and how log it takes for data to be overwritten? I've been told that this internal storage is "separate" from that of the 8GB internal storage in the AC that is used for pictures and videos.
  3. I've read that some older DJI models used a SD Card that was glued inside the AC for storing flight data. Does the Mavic 2 Zoom / Pro have a similar setup? I've looked at several tear down videos and can find nothing with the same details and explanations as is available with older AC models. This also seems odd (and perhaps intentional??) especially since these models (Zoom / Pro) of AC have been on the market for some time now.
 

Meta4

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So if an owner has no need to make a warranty or any other type of claim - why would DJI need this information?
Why can an owner not have the choice to remove this information from the drone as they do with removing it from their telephone or smart controller?
I feel that I were to sell my drone, I would not want any data related to where I was flying (or anything else) available to another party at any time - so yes it seems similar to me to that of my phone analogy.
1. DJI can't tell who will and who won't be making warranty claims when they sell you a drone.
2. DJI want the flight data to be reliable so they make it tamper proof
3. No-one apart from DJI can read the internal data
I've looked at flight data from hundreds of flyers.
There's nothing you need to be concerned about in there.
It's nothing like your lost phone analogy.
 

DJIUser-Elon

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1. DJI can't tell who will and who won't be making warranty claims when they sell you a drone.
2. DJI want the flight data to be reliable so they make it tamper proof
3. No-one apart from DJI can read the internal data
I've looked at flight data from hundreds of flyers.
There's nothing you need to be concerned about in there.
It's nothing like your lost phone analogy.
Hi Meta4,

Thank You for the additional reply.

I understand your argument somewhat for a drone that might still be under warranty. But what if a drone is no longer under warranty? Why not provide the ability for owners to remove any data stored on the AC?

Since my understanding is GPS info is stored on the aircraft, I feel that many people would consider this a privacy concern. While it "might" be true that "today" no one but DJI can currently read the internal data - my feeling is that it is certainly possible (if not already) for this data to be read by parties other than DJI at some point in the future. Also, what if the owner of the aircraft does not wish their data to be read by DJI? Shouldn't the owner have that choice?

I think this is a good question.
 

Meta4

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But what if a drone is no longer under warranty? Why not provide the ability for owners to remove any data stored on the AC?
Probably because it doesn't matter.
Really ... it doesn't matter at all.
Since my understanding is GPS info is stored on the aircraft, I feel that many people would consider this a privacy concern.
I'm sure there are some ...but it really doesn't matter.
Do you have any idea how much real data about you and you and your behaviour and movements is collected by your Google or Apple from your phone all the time?
Or how much real data they are collecting every time you go online?
Or real financial data your credit card is sending back to its owners?
Or the way you are monitored by thousands of surveillance cameras and computers with face recognition software in cities and urban areas?

But what you are concerned about is some encrypted data that (if read) would show that you flew your drone at the park or the beach for 20 minutes and what moves you made with the joysticks and where the drone went to and how high, what the battery levels were for every 1/10th of a second of the flight and when you pushed the RTH button and brought it back?
Really?

Just imagine what some nefarious organization could do with that precious, private data and the serious implications that might have.
I can't.
In the big scheme of things, the encrypted data from your last few toy drone flights, is something-nothing.
While it "might" be true that "today" no one but DJI can currently read the internal data - my feeling is that it is certainly possible (if not already) for this data to be read by parties other than DJI at some point in the future.
Here's the kicker.
DJI and/or other parties will never get to see the precious, private data stored inside your drone to carry out their nefarious and malicious schemes unless they can somehow get their dirty little hands on your drone.
Also, what if the owner of the aircraft does not wish their data to be read by DJI? Shouldn't the owner have that choice?
Good news ... you do have that option.
Don't send your drone back to DJI.
The secrets hidden in your drone are safe from prying eyes.
I think this is a good question.
I would like to think I've answered your good questions.
 

DJIUser-Elon

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Meta4

I understand that my concerns might not matter at all to you - I can respect that especially since you seem to feel so strongly about your feelings that you took enough of your time to compose your responses to my posts. . . .

Regardless of your opinion, the point remains that these concerns might matter to others and they certainly do to me. Not sure why you've chosen to respond in such a harsh negative matter.....

At no time when I purchased this AC did I have the understanding that I would not be in control of any data stored on it. Regardless of what the data is, what importance it might or might not have - I own the aircraft and I should be able to remove any of my data from the aircraft when I want. It really doesn't matter what my reasons are - it should still be my choice.

Since DJI does not seem to provide any way apparent way for me to delete my data from the AC, I am still hoping to learn more about my previous question

^^^^^

" I've read that the logs are overwritten at some point due to internal storage constraints. Anyone know how much storage is actually used inside the AC to store these logs and how log it takes for data to be overwritten? I've been told that this internal storage is "separate" from that of the 8GB internal storage in the AC that is used for pictures and videos. "

^^^^^

as this seems to be the only workaround to removing any data from the AC that I wish to be removed other than destroying the AC or holding onto until it until root access of the AC is available.

I'm also hoping to get information on my other two questions:

  1. I've read that some older DJI models used a SD Card that was glued inside the AC for storing flight data. Does the Mavic 2 Zoom / Pro have a similar setup? I've looked at several tear down videos and can find nothing with the same details and explanations as is available with older AC models. This also seems odd (and perhaps intentional??) especially since these models (Zoom / Pro) of AC have been on the market for some time now. Are there any published tear down videos of the Mavic 2 Zoom / Pro or Enterprise that give a detailed explanation of all the chips that populate the boards inside the AC?
  2. What is recorded/stored in the FAM data section
Thanks again.
 
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BadWolf1

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As someone that reads flight data to investigate flight incidents, I think what you are suggesting is nonsense.
I think both points of view are true.

Where you flew is personal data and it makes good sense to ask "Who can see where I have been flying, do they only see that with my consent, and what might they do with the information".

For any sort of investigation, "Did you fly into something" is a valid question a lot of the time, and relative X,Y,Z co-ordinates only give half the the story. You need absolute co-ordinates to know what the terrain is where the drone is flying. There are only two situations where an investigator gets access to the data: either the drone owner provides it willingly, or it is accessed in a legally enforceable process following an incident.

Of the personal data things we all need to watch, someone buying one of your devices, breaking the encryption on manufacturer-only diagnostic data, and putting it to malign use is a theoretical possibility rather than a cause for active concern.
 
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Meta4

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Not sure why you've chosen to respond in such a harsh negative matter.....
I have simply ended up being direct and blunt in an attempt to get the message through.
It seems that hasn't worked.
At no time when I purchased this AC did I have the understanding that I would not be in control of any data stored on it.
Regardless of what the data is, what importance it might or might not have - I own the aircraft and I should be able to remove any of my data from the aircraft when I want.
It really doesn't matter what my reasons are - it should still be my choice.
When you purchased the drone, you imagined you would be in control of any data stored in it.

**Surprise** ... you are in control of that data.
You decide what happens to it, whether anyone else ever sees it.
You have much more than you are in control of any data your phone, computer and credit card are collecting and broadcasting.
I can't imagine how you deal with those much greater breaches of your privacy.
 

DavidT_ NZ

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As someone that reads flight data to investigate flight incidents, I think what you are suggesting is nonsense.
My post was to identify, correctly, that a flight's location is personal information, in reply to the post of the original. And if you investigate flight incidents for FAA or similar, that is completely different from a drone manufacturer in a foreign country having access to where you flew your drone. If a DJI drone fails, it won't matter one iota if it was flying in Utah or Japan. DJI can examine the flight characteristics, without knowing the exact geographical location of where the flight took place. What you are suggesting is that you have no objection to a foreign company knowing where you fly your drone. I do object. DJI is not a federal or national investigation authority. They should stick to making drones and servicing them. I have just gone through a prolonged clearance procedure with DJI in China to obtain an unlocking licence to fly my Air 2 in New Zealand, in an area that had readily received air traffic control approval, despite it being in a blue mapped zone near an airport. Yet I still had a 24 hour delay on my planned flight, simply because DJI insisted on being involved, by grounding the flight ..... for some obscure reason. This involvement should give concern to pilots all over the world. What a simple way to gain intelligence about restricted airspace in foreign countries. And as the Air 2 also has onboard data storage and links to DJI every time the controller and drone hooks out for firmware updates, who knows what data is being transmitted to China? Huawei are currently being reviewed for restrictions on building new 5G networks. DJI should also be treated with caution. Snappy drones, but always look closely at new tech. Just like the data mining that surfaced from Facebook, Google, Amazon, ...... the list is long. And unfortunately, a lot of westerners are pretty casual and naive.
 

Meta4

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Your post indicates a lack of understanding, matched with an overactive imagination and exaggerated privacy concern.
It's absolute nonsense.
If a DJI drone fails, it won't matter one iota if it was flying in Utah or Japan. DJI can examine the flight characteristics, without knowing the exact geographical location of where the flight took place.
Spoken like someone completely lacking in any understanding of the topic.
When someone loses or crashes their drone, the local topography is often very relevant.
Being able to see how the terrain affected the flight incident is often a key point.
If I can see how a drone lost signal when it flew behind an obstacle, or work out where it might have run into terrain when it attempted to RTH, I can often point the owner to a likely search location.
Your crazy over-the-top privacy concern would make that impossible.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
What you are suggesting is that you have no objection to a foreign company knowing where you fly your drone.
If any foreign country wants to know where I fly my drone, I don't have a problem with that.
I understand that DJI don't know anything about my flying activities.
And I also understand what they would be able to see in my flight data if I chose to share it with them.
ore than happy to share my data with them so they could see the technical aspects of the incident and why I was unable to return the drone to them.
I was also very happy when they sent me a replacement drone.
I do object.
That's obvious, as is your lack of understanding of much about flight data and your exaggerated concern for protecting your precious private flight data.
This involvement should give concern to pilots all over the world. What a simple way to gain intelligence about restricted airspace in foreign countries.
Surely you are joking?
What airspace is subject to restrictions is common public knowledge.
How else would pilots be able to avoid it?
And as the Air 2 also has onboard data storage and links to DJI every time the controller and drone hooks out for firmware updates, who knows what data is being transmitted to China?
It sounds like you don't.
But since your flight data is so precious, the simple solution would be to avoid connecting to DJI.
Or if you wanted to consider the matter in a rational way, you could ask yourself what possible interest DJI would have in where you flew last week or what they might gain from that information.
And unfortunately, a lot of westerners are pretty casual and naive.
And some people display irrational paranoia.
 
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DJIUser-Elon

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Meta4:

Again I am not sure why you've chosen to respond multiple times with ..... well to be honest in my opinion is an extremely negative and bad attitude. I respect you have an opinion that certainly differs from my own and most likely many others - but the negativity, inflammatory statements and overall bad attitude are not helping anyone.

I simply have some concerns and questions about the DJI Mavic 2 Zoom / Pro AC that I am hoping to have answered. I know that everyone may not agree with my opinions or concerns but as a new user on this forum it does not feel very welcoming on your part the way you have chosen to express your opinions and seemingly attack myself and other respondents here in this thread.

When you purchased the drone, you imagined you would be in control of any data stored in it.

**Surprise** ... you are in control of that data.
You decide what happens to it, whether anyone else ever sees it.
Yes, I agree that I "might" under certain circumstances be in control of my personal data on the AC that I currently do not have the ability or choice to delete. But the limitations of this "control" I feel are not reasonable for a product that I own. I should have the choice to delete any and all data stored on the AC at any time that I wish for any reason. Currently the only way I am aware that I have control of my data is to either keep the AC until such a time that root access to the AC is available (which should allow me to delete and remove all data on the AC) or destroy the AC. I cannot sell or otherwise transfer the AC without giving up control of my data stored on the AC since I am currently unable to remove it. I feel this is not reasonable and I would have never purchased this product had this fact been clearly disclosed beforehand or during the time of activation of the AC. Hopefully this post will inform others (if they have concerns similar to my own - buyer beware) considering purchase of DJI products with such limitations.

So now since I am stuck in the this situation, I hope to still find answers to these questions which I asked earlier:
  1. I've read that some older DJI models used a SD Card that was glued inside the AC for storing flight data. Does the Mavic 2 Zoom / Pro have a similar setup? I've looked at several tear down videos and can find nothing with the same details and explanations as is available with older AC models. This also seems odd (and perhaps intentional??) especially since these models (Zoom / Pro) of AC have been on the market for some time now. Are there any published tear down videos of the Mavic 2 Zoom / Pro or Enterprise that give a detailed explanation of all the chips that populate the boards inside the AC?
  2. What is recorded/stored in the FAM data section
 

BudWalker

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Meta4:

Again I am not sure why you've chosen to respond multiple times with ..... well to be honest in my opinion is an extremely negative and bad attitude. I respect you have an opinion that certainly differs from my own and most likely many others - but the negativity, inflammatory statements and overall bad attitude are not helping anyone.

I simply have some concerns and questions about the DJI Mavic 2 Zoom / Pro AC that I am hoping to have answered. I know that everyone may not agree with my opinions or concerns but as a new user on this forum it does not feel very welcoming on your part the way you have chosen to express your opinions and seemingly attack myself and other respondents here in this thread.



Yes, I agree that I "might" under certain circumstances be in control of my personal data on the AC that I currently do not have the ability or choice to delete. But the limitations of this "control" I feel are not reasonable for a product that I own. I should have the choice to delete any and all data stored on the AC at any time that I wish for any reason. Currently the only way I am aware that I have control of my data is to either keep the AC until such a time that root access to the AC is available (which should allow me to delete and remove all data on the AC) or destroy the AC. I cannot sell or otherwise transfer the AC without giving up control of my data stored on the AC since I am currently unable to remove it. I feel this is not reasonable and I would have never purchased this product had this fact been clearly disclosed beforehand or during the time of activation of the AC. Hopefully this post will inform others (if they have concerns similar to my own - buyer beware) considering purchase of DJI products with such limitations.

So now since I am stuck in the this situation, I hope to still find answers to these questions which I asked earlier:
  1. I've read that some older DJI models used a SD Card that was glued inside the AC for storing flight data. Does the Mavic 2 Zoom / Pro have a similar setup? I've looked at several tear down videos and can find nothing with the same details and explanations as is available with older AC models. This also seems odd (and perhaps intentional??) especially since these models (Zoom / Pro) of AC have been on the market for some time now. Are there any published tear down videos of the Mavic 2 Zoom / Pro or Enterprise that give a detailed explanation of all the chips that populate the boards inside the AC?
  2. What is recorded/stored in the FAM data section
Some of your concerns would be better addressed to DJI itself.

One way you could "delete" your data would be to turn on the MA2 in a location where no GPS reception is possible. The .DAT log file will eventually overwrite existing the logs you want to "delete". 3 hours ought to do it. You'll have to change batteries.
 
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DJIUser-Elon

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Some of your concerns would be better addressed to DJI itself.
Thank You! I did contact DJI. The CS rep I spoke to had no ability to clearly answer my questions and I was told that they had opened a case to their "Engineering Team" and I might hear something back via email or telephone. I've not received any reply and I do not expect to since I had to stop the rep before he hung up the phone to explain exactly how they were going to contract me back since I did not provide a telephone number or email address. It was only then he asked me for this info and it was provided..... Top notch customer service DJI.....

One way you could "delete" your data would be to turn on the MA2 in a location where no GPS reception is possible. The .DAT log file will eventually overwrite existing the logs you want to "delete". 3 hours ought to do it. You'll have to change batteries.
I'll give this a try on my M2Z and report back. Do you know what is stored in the FAM data section of the AC? This section seems to have a considerably longer retention period than that of the other section. Seems that data from all flights (going back a considerable time) are stored in the FAM section while the other sections seem to only have data going back a few days of flights.

Thanks for the response.
 

sar104

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Neither am I.
I suspect it's because you are frustrated by people who selectively contrive reasons to worry about the data on DJI devices, even though they have complete control over it, while completely ignoring their much greater digital footprints in many other areas. I tend to agree with you that it is at least borderline paranoia.
 

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If it is a concern to you that data of where you flew your drone is on it, then I have to ask what are you doing that is illegal?

I have always wondered why any law abiding citizen would care about things like this, I also couldn't care less if the government read every email, or listen to every call I make, I have nothing to hide, if they want to waste time doing it go ahead.





Meta4

I understand that my concerns might not matter at all to you - I can respect that especially since you seem to feel so strongly about your feelings that you took enough of your time to compose your responses to my posts. . . .

Regardless of your opinion, the point remains that these concerns might matter to others and they certainly do to me. Not sure why you've chosen to respond in such a harsh negative matter.....

At no time when I purchased this AC did I have the understanding that I would not be in control of any data stored on it. Regardless of what the data is, what importance it might or might not have - I own the aircraft and I should be able to remove any of my data from the aircraft when I want. It really doesn't matter what my reasons are - it should still be my choice.

Since DJI does not seem to provide any way apparent way for me to delete my data from the AC, I am still hoping to learn more about my previous question

^^^^^

" I've read that the logs are overwritten at some point due to internal storage constraints. Anyone know how much storage is actually used inside the AC to store these logs and how log it takes for data to be overwritten? I've been told that this internal storage is "separate" from that of the 8GB internal storage in the AC that is used for pictures and videos. "

^^^^^

as this seems to be the only workaround to removing any data from the AC that I wish to be removed other than destroying the AC or holding onto until it until root access of the AC is available.

I'm also hoping to get information on my other two questions:

  1. I've read that some older DJI models used a SD Card that was glued inside the AC for storing flight data. Does the Mavic 2 Zoom / Pro have a similar setup? I've looked at several tear down videos and can find nothing with the same details and explanations as is available with older AC models. This also seems odd (and perhaps intentional??) especially since these models (Zoom / Pro) of AC have been on the market for some time now. Are there any published tear down videos of the Mavic 2 Zoom / Pro or Enterprise that give a detailed explanation of all the chips that populate the boards inside the AC?
  2. What is recorded/stored in the FAM data section
Thanks again.
 
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sar104

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If it is a concern to you that data of where you flew your drone is on it, then I have to ask what are you doing that is illegal?

I have always wondered why any law abiding citizen would care about things like this, I also couldn't care less if the government read every email, or listen to every call I make, I have nothing to hide, if they want to waste time doing it go ahead.
I would argue that privacy is perceived in a wide spectrum of ways. And while the total privacy approach is somewhat extreme most societies, it's a legitimate goal. It's the inconsistency in pursuing that goal that is frustrating though - anyone who feels that way should not be using Google, Amazon, any social media, probably any internet presence at all, cell phones or credit cards. And yet they get wrapped around the axle about possible flight telemetry on a drone which is not even usefull PII and only gets shared if they choose to allow it. It's so contrived.
 
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