FAA wants to talk...while I'm flying...

[akdrone]

So…my friend and I were flying and filming the Quest Dog Sled Race in Fairbanks AK where we live. My drone is in the air, stationary at the moment, we are both in my car because we are wimps and flying with gloves is tough and flying without them is tougher at our temps..so I hear a tap tap tap on my window to my left.

I look out and there are two fellows, may in their early 30s. I roll down the the window and one says, “We’re with the FAAs”. I said, “seriously”? He smiled and said yes. We were in an authorization zone that requires a LAANCs and has a limit of 200feet. There are crowds around around, especially near the start and then lining the route that goes along the river the mushers will be going down.

The FAA fellow asks us if we have Part 107 which in retrospect seems odd as I know I could have gotten a LAANC had I not had Part 107. I showed him my card as did my friend and then he asked about a LAANC. My friend had a printout and he showed him that and I said I didn’t have a printout but could show him on my phone and got it out buy he didn’t worry about that. All this time my drone is sitting out their stationary…in sight but just barely so. We chatted a bit with me commenting the hardest part is being careful to not fly over people. He nodded in agreement and said they had been watching us (our drones) and noted we were being very careful. I said, “yeah…we’re staying under 400’…” and my friend very quickly said, “200’ !” I laughed and said, “yeah…200’” and the FAA fellow said they had already noted that.

Had everyone been on their game they would have told me, or I should have said, " I need to bring my drone back and land so we can talk" but instead my drone sat up there...while we conversed..

We asked for a photo with them and learned one was a member of a local, very famous dog mushing family. We got a pic with all of us. All in all a very fun encounter and we were very, very happy we had all our “ducks in a row”.

I did ask if they had encountered people that were not doing things right and they answered “too often”. Good times .

 

[jaja6009]

You got the mythical "ramp" check and handled it like a pro.

Maybe others will chime in that had a similar encounter.

I know of no one that has ever had an FAA employee walk up to them, just law enforcement.


You'll get some epic footage with that Mavic 4 Pro!

 

[Dronecation]

Good share...any stills or screen grabs to share of the dog sled race event?

 

[glocke12]

Just curious, did they show you their FAA I.D's ?

Were they there in some official capacity or were they at this event as spectators ?

 

[Cafguy]

If you were in your car participating in a legal activity and a person walked up to you and told you they represented the Government and wanted to ask you questions...What would you do..?
Employees of the Government are Not allowed to walk up to you for no reason and introduce themselves as government representatives unless they have business with you! Sure they can walk up to you and during conversation mention they work for the Government no problem...But to simply walk up to you for no reason and introduce that fact is getting a little intrusive don't you think? It also violates their code of conduct.
An official with the FAA has the power to legally Detain you! Anyone with such power (such as the Police) must announce themselves first, If they walked up to you and said "Hello I'm with the FAA"... They weren't having a conversation....(By law).... YOU were being DETAINED....They need a legal reason to do that.

 

[Mt-Ed]

I wonder what they would have done had you, as my atty. has instructed me ANY TIME I'M CONFRONTED BY LEOs, to not answer any questions unless in my atty's presence, AND, I do not agree to any searches?

 

[TwoSticks]

I only file in areas that have a restriction of some kind. I should think about filing just because. It can be a pain but being ready to tell someone you are prepared seems like it may be worth it. I wont file here at the house when I’m messing around but will think about it otherwise.

 

[hank970]

If you were in your car participating in a legal activity and a person walked up to you and told you they represented the Government and wanted to ask you questions...What would you do..?
Employees of the Government are Not allowed to walk up to you for no reason and introduce themselves as government representatives unless they have business with you! Sure they can walk up to you and during conversation mention they work for the Government no problem...But to simply walk up to you for no reason and introduce that fact is getting a little intrusive don't you think? It also violates their code of conduct.
An official with the FAA has the power to legally Detain you! Anyone with such power (such as the Police) must announce themselves first, If they walked up to you and said "Hello I'm with the FAA"... They weren't having a conversation....(By law).... YOU were being DETAINED....They need a legal reason to do that.

As regards your first bolded assertion, balderdash. As a national park ranger with law enforcement authority, I frequently walked up to and engaged visitors -- sometimes because I had suspicions about their activities, sometimes to show the flag and act as a deterrent, and other times just to be a friendly presence who was available to answer questions. If they were accompanied by youngsters, I'd often tell the kids to keep an eye out for dinosaurs.

I didn't need to identify myself because I was wearing a uniform.

It seems to me that, since FAA employees aren't uniformed, those fellows acted in a friendly and responsible manner by identifying themselves at an event where a drone operator might be tempted to exceed a prescribed altitude limit for that once-in-a-lifetime shot. They were just showing the flag. Kudos also to the OP and his friend for behaving sensibly and appropriately.

I will, of course, stand down if you can furnish citations in defense of your assertions. You know, a written policy statement or code of conduct (your words) which forbids government employees from walking up to folks and identifying themselves.

Finally, in response to your last boded assertion, walking up to someone, identifying oneself as a government employee, and engaging someone in conversation is not detention. Detention, by definition, involves holding a person against their will by removing or restricting their freedom of movement. You know, like when you were a school kid and a teacher or principal ordered to sit alone in the classroom during recess or to stay after school because you'd misbehaved.

 

[AMann]

If you were in your car participating in a legal activity and a person walked up to you and told you they represented the Government and wanted to ask you questions...What would you do..?
Employees of the Government are Not allowed to walk up to you for no reason and introduce themselves as government representatives unless they have business with you! Sure they can walk up to you and during conversation mention they work for the Government no problem...But to simply walk up to you for no reason and introduce that fact is getting a little intrusive don't you think? It also violates their code of conduct.
An official with the FAA has the power to legally Detain you! Anyone with such power (such as the Police) must announce themselves first, If they walked up to you and said "Hello I'm with the FAA"... They weren't having a conversation....(By law).... YOU were being DETAINED....They need a legal reason to do that.

You know, they had a reason - the guy was flying a drone, and at a public event.

I know you were only trying to help him by trying to point out protecting his “rights”, but someone trying to argue back to the officials based on everything suggested would just get into trouble. The FAA requires us to comply with FAA officials and law-enforcement officers who ask a drone pilot for their license and drone registration. Sorry, but it’s not the wild West anymore, those were the good old days, and then some people had to go and ruin them for the rest of us.

 

[Droning on and on...]

If you were in your car participating in a legal activity and a person walked up to you and told you they represented the Government and wanted to ask you questions...What would you do..?

Exactly what @akdrone did.

Employees of the Government are Not allowed to walk up to you for no reason and introduce themselves as government representatives unless they have business with you! Sure they can walk up to you and during conversation mention they work for the Government no problem...But to simply walk up to you for no reason and introduce that fact is getting a little intrusive don't you think?

No I don't.

Everyone needs to lighten up a bit. To me "intrusive" requires some forcefulness.This was polite, friendly, and for all we know they might have just walked away if interaction was politely declined.

Viewing any interaction with government officials as some sort of violation of your rights is likely to lead to trouble. It's also just wrong in a bigger picture, we all gotta live together, POV.

 

[anotherlab]

If you were in your car participating in a legal activity and a person walked up to you and told you they represented the Government and wanted to ask you questions...What would you do..?
Employees of the Government are Not allowed to walk up to you for no reason and introduce themselves as government representatives unless they have business with you! Sure they can walk up to you and during conversation mention they work for the Government no problem...But to simply walk up to you for no reason and introduce that fact is getting a little intrusive don't you think? It also violates their code of conduct.
An official with the FAA has the power to legally Detain you! Anyone with such power (such as the Police) must announce themselves first, If they walked up to you and said "Hello I'm with the FAA"... They weren't having a conversation....(By law).... YOU were being DETAINED....They need a legal reason to do that.

Someone saying “I’m with the FAA” doesn’t automatically mean you’re being detained. A detention depends on whether you’re actually being told to stop or not free to leave, not just on how someone introduces themselves. Most FAA folks whom pilots might encounter are doing education or outreach, not law enforcement.

There also isn’t a rule, law, or "code of conduct" that government employees cannot approach you or identify themselves unless they already have a specific reason. An approach or conversation by itself is still just that, a conversation. That applies to the Police (excluding Copeland, Sting, and Summers) as well.

Conversation ≠ Detention. The OP was free not to answer or to move away from the conversation.

It’s always reasonable to ask if you’re free to go, but assuming every FAA interaction is automatically a legal detention overstates their authority and can make things more confrontational than they need to be.

 

[Bad Santa]

Humans are so weird.

Some humans see all members of "authority" as automatic adversaries. Those people think all of those officials are out there for only one purpose, to step on the "rights" of the people.
Some humans see members of authority as those who make sure people's rights aren't being infringed upon by others.
And there's a whole lot of humans who live somewhere in the middle.

Then there are those authority figures.
Some believe everyone is evil. No matter what they are doing, they must be up to no good.
Some believe that all people are good until they prove otherwise.
And there's a whole lot of them in the middle.

And then there's the Karens or the Kevins. They seem to infiltrate all over. I'd argue that they aren't humans but, sadly, they are.

The really funny thing is the humans who have the tendencies on the edges of their spectrums are closer to Karens and Kevins than they realize.

 

[Droning on and on...]

A little known fact by just a few of us here... @akdrone is actually Santa Claus who happens to be a 107 certified drone enthusiast in the off-season.

Just thought I'd explain the uncanny resemblance to those wondering. And yes, the sled is an extremely high-powered experimental with a waiver from the FAA, CAA, EASA, and other aviation authorities. @akdrone is the only person in the world that also has an official NORAD flight authorization, and his organization, North Pole Industries, cooperates annually with NORAD on Dec 25th to run the Santa Tracker.

In the off-season he films dog sled races, enjoys a weekly brisk hike through the snow, and helps with gift design using Autodesk Fusion prototyping on a 3D Printer.

 

[jaja6009]

If you were in your car participating in a legal activity and a person walked up to you and told you they represented the Government and wanted to ask you questions...What would you do..?
Employees of the Government are Not allowed to walk up to you for no reason and introduce themselves as government representatives unless they have business with you! Sure they can walk up to you and during conversation mention they work for the Government no problem...But to simply walk up to you for no reason and introduce that fact is getting a little intrusive don't you think? It also violates their code of conduct.
An official with the FAA has the power to legally Detain you! Anyone with such power (such as the Police) must announce themselves first, If they walked up to you and said "Hello I'm with the FAA"... They weren't having a conversation....(By law).... YOU were being DETAINED....They need a legal reason to do that.

This is a bit much. Not sure how you get this, from the picture and story from above.

 

[Dbez1]

Cafguy, I usually agree with your posts and you’ve helped a lot of pilots, but this one seems unnecessarily inflammatory.

 

[glocke12]

Viewing any interaction with government officials as some sort of violation of your rights is likely to lead to trouble. It's also just wrong in a bigger picture, we all gotta live together, POV.

If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about right ?

Also, if you are doing nothing wrong, than the Feds should not be bothering you period..

 

[akdrone]

You got the mythical "ramp" check and handled it like a pro.

Maybe others will chime in that had a similar encounter.

I know of no one that has ever had an FAA employee walk up to them, just law enforcement.


You'll get some epic footage with that Mavic 4 Pro!

Waiting for that epic footage! Let me know if you find it...I'll be right over!

This is a bit much. Not sure how you get this, from the picture and story from above.

If you were in your car participating in a legal activity and a person walked up to you and told you they represented the Government and wanted to ask you questions...What would you do..?
Employees of the Government are Not allowed to walk up to you for no reason and introduce themselves as government representatives unless they have business with you! Sure they can walk up to you and during conversation mention they work for the Government no problem...But to simply walk up to you for no reason and introduce that fact is getting a little intrusive don't you think? It also violates their code of conduct.
An official with the FAA has the power to legally Detain you! Anyone with such power (such as the Police) must announce themselves first, If they walked up to you and said "Hello I'm with the FAA"... They weren't having a conversation....(By law).... YOU were being DETAINED....They need a legal reason to do that.

I am not concerned. I know that as part of our certification we are required to show our certification to any law officer or FAA representative. Just how much they can ask...I don't know but it's of no concern to me. Anyone flying a drone is, I believe, subject to being required to show their certification. They did immediately tell me they were with the FAA and if they were pulling my leg...even that would be no big deal to me. You want me to show you my FAA Part 107 card since you're' sitting next to me at the restaurant. Sure. They were very friendly and professional and as the conversation unfolded I had no reason to doubt them. Maybe I should have asked for their credentials.

 

[glocke12]

Waiting for that epic footage! Let me know if you find it...I'll be right over!


I am not concerned. I know that as part of our certification we are required to show our certification to any law officer or FAA representative. Just how much they can ask...I don't know but it's of no concern to me. Anyone flying a drone is, I believe, subject to being required to show their certification. They did immediately tell me they were with the FAA and if they were pulling my leg...even that would be no big deal to me. You want me to show you my FAA Part 107 card since you're' sitting next to me at the restaurant. Sure. They were very friendly and professional and as the conversation unfolded I had no reason to doubt them. Maybe I should have asked for their credentials.l

Ok. So they didn't show you their credentials.

They could very well have been legit and given that they posed for a photo with you tells me they probably are, but given that impersonating a Fed is a crime I would have asked.

 

[FLDave]

Not knowing the exact details of the conversations one can only speculate I do suspect that, by their initial identification, the questions were in their official capacity as FAA agents. It wasn't just casual conversation. The fact that the pilots provided proper documentation seems to indicate that the pilots believed that the agents were acting in their official capacity and not just interested non-government people. So, it seems there was an implied detention until satisfactory documentation was provided. What would have have happened the pilots refused to provide requested information? We'll never know.

 

[Dronecation]

As regards your first bolded assertion, balderdash. As a national park ranger with law enforcement authority, I frequently walked up to and engaged visitors -- sometimes because I had suspicions about their activities, sometimes to show the flag and act as a deterrent, and other times just to be a friendly presence who was available to answer questions. If they were accompanied by youngsters, I'd often tell the kids to keep an eye out for dinosaurs.

I didn't need to identify myself because I was wearing a uniform.

It seems to me that, since FAA employees aren't uniformed, those fellows acted in a friendly and responsible manner by identifying themselves at an event where a drone operator might be tempted to exceed a prescribed altitude limit for that once-in-a-lifetime shot. They were just showing the flag. Kudos also to the OP and his friend for behaving sensibly and appropriately.

I will, of course, stand down if you can furnish citations in defense of your assertions. You know, a written policy statement or code of conduct (your words) which forbids government employees from walking up to folks and identifying themselves.

Finally, in response to your last boded assertion, walking up to someone, identifying oneself as a government employee, and engaging someone in conversation is not detention. Detention, by definition, involves holding a person against their will by removing or restricting their freedom of movement. You know, like when you were a school kid and a teacher or principal ordered to sit alone in the classroom during recess or to stay after school because you'd misbehaved.

Two thumbs up on that!!!