Fess up- Have you broken the VLOS rule? (poll)

[Leckhart]

No and won't. I'm a PP w/Inst Rating and would report someone that did if I saw it.

Sorry Two Grumpy Guys, but you're probably the need for guidelines.

 

[A.O.]

How 'bout driving 59 mph in that hypothetical 55mph zone?

Well if you are doing 59 in a 55... I'm probably going to be passing! ?

 

[vindibona1]

How 'bout driving 59 mph in that hypothetical 55mph zone?

You'd better be in the right lane! 70 is the average, 80 is not unusual out by where I live- and I'm in the near burbs.

If I can go off the rails for a moment... The US changed the mandated max speed to 55mph in '73 with the oil embargo whereas before all the interstates were 70-80mph. When the was over they maintained 55 because it was "safer". Back then we didn't have disk brakes or steel belted radial tires or integrated seat belts or crumple zones air bags or sensors. But as technology made cars much safer the traffic laws in a lot of places still haven't put the speed limits back to where they were in '72. But seemingly drivers sense the increase handling and safety and traffic flow reflects that. Sorry for the diversion.

 

[vindibona1]

Mounted on bottom right behind the gimbalView attachment 121774

That's exactly where I have mine on both my M2 and Mini 1 and 2 (the Minis needed some customized velcro installation around the switch and battery indicator lights).

Can anyone recommend lights to assist with VLOS; preferably ones that work with both the MM2 and M2P?

Assuming you're in the US, I would recommend the Firehouse Technology Arc V strobe(s). It's the one that A.O. is illustrating. For my M2 I mount one on the bottom, one red, one green on the front arms and sometimes and additional one on the top, though a top mount isn't very effective for LOS when the drone is at altitude.

 

[vindibona1]

Never have let my drone out of my sight. I'm surprised the FAA hasn't gone after those who post videos of how they sent their drones out 2 miles from their location.

I guess before the FAA devoted manpower to such an investigation, they would have to have reasonable proof that there wasn't a spotter. In the case of these long range desert treks, what would be the point?

Just to be clear on my position, on most of my projects I've brought along a spotter, not because it is a rule but because I wanted to be safe.

 

[Leckhart]

I guess before the FAA devoted manpower to such an investigation, they would have to have reasonable proof that there wasn't a spotter. In the case of these long range desert treks, what would be the point?

Just to be clear on my position, on most of my projects I've brought along a spotter, not because it is a rule but because I wanted to be safe.

If you are doing FPV with goggles and have a Spotter, how far away can you fly before the Spotter is beyond VLOS? I assume you're still flying at or below 400' AGL.

 

[RussDrone]

I very strongly feel there are 2 ways to interpret the VLOS rule. One is you can see the drone at all times, look away, and look back and find it. The other is you can see the air space it is in at all times to see if a manned flight is in the area. I fly by, and feel the only interpretation with merit, is the first. Given the position I take, I set the maximum distance to 2000' and don't fly in any direction where there is any kind of obstruction. I live in rural America (NH). Maybe, just maybe, if I lived where there are miles of desert and no living creature in sight, I would consider the second interpretation.

 

[ghjcmo]

When I read the headline, I misread it, I thought it was a discussion of whether the VLOS rule is broken. LOL Here's the thing, after an argument on this board a few weeks ago, I did a lot of reading, trying to understand the VLOS. And from what I can tell, if you obey it to the STRICT LETTER OF THE LAW, I'd argue that it's almost impossible for most of us to not break it at some point. The pilot is supposed to know the exact position, altitude, attitude, and direction of the drone at all times BY LOOKING at the drone. And I have my doubts that there are very many of us that can do ALL those things simply by looking at your drone, once it gets out of your IMMEDIATE presence. I'm sure the strategic placement of anti-collision lights can help some of that, but I'm not convinced everybody can look at a drone that's 500 feet away, 200 feet up in the air and they're going to know ALL of the requirements just by looking at the drone.

 

[eznoh]

It's almost impossible not to lose sight of the Mavic Mini, especially if you're flying out over the ocean

 

[ghjcmo]

I need a fourth option:
o Yes. I fly beyond VLOS every time I go up since there is no one around for miles, and even if there were, I would probably do it anyway because I am a cranky old man.

Yeah this kind of describes me to a point, but it's largely because of where I fly (over my own rural property where there are no people and there are NO AIRCRAFT OF ANY kind flying 100-150 ft off ground.)

Now that I understand the requirement and issues better, if I were flying somewhere else, I would have a completely different attitude,

 

[Fearless Flight]

Yeah I just buy super expensive drones that have a ton of capability so I can just circle my yard. ?

 

[Mavikhan]

Yeah I just buy super expensive drones that have a ton of capability so I can just circle my yard. ?

GOOD ONE ?

 

[ghjcmo]

Yeah I just buy super expensive drones that have a ton of capability so I can just circle my yard. ?

I said the same thing the other day. See here's my thing. IF it so "inherently dangerous" to fly BVLOS, then why does the government even allow these things to be sold?

Had I found this forum BEFORE I got my drone, and dug into these issues like this, I would have never bought my drone. In fact, I'm still considering selling it. Because I find it nearly impossibly to fly completely in VLOS unless I keep it basically "in my backyard."

 

[Mavikhan]

I said the same thing the other day. See here's my thing. IF it so "inherently dangerous" to fly BVLOS, then why does the government even allow these things to be sold?

Had I found this forum BEFORE I got my drone, and dug into these issues like this, I would have never bought my drone. In fact, I'm still considering selling it. Because I find it nearly impossibly to fly completely in VLOS unless I keep it basically "in my backyard."

Dude relax. Go out and enjoy your drone. Life is short. ?

 

[ghjcmo]

Dude relax. Go out and enjoy your drone. Life is short. ?

LOL, that's kind of what I told some of the people who assured me I'm being reckless.

 

[lhelicon]

Yes...

But I have a SFOC

 

[FlyBackOU812]

I agree 100%. All “pilots” scan as part of being aware of the surrounding airspace, and the instrumentation of the aircraft so they know the status of the aircraft. If all you do is watch your drone or only state at the video feed, you are not piloting your drone. You need to be aware of the whole picture.

*** INTERESTING STORY HERE*** I bought my first DJI drone when the MP1 first came out almost 5 years ago. I bought it from sams club which is bulk MEMBERSHIP club Store for those that don't didn't know. I went in that day to buy my monthly bulk items like dog food and such and I came accross A HUGE DJI display that was advertising them. until that moment I had never even laid my eyes on a drone b4 other than tv. I had no idea what their capabilities were so as I was reading the display saying it had obstacle ovoidance, hovered on its own, RTH, GPS and that, I was simply amazed. Act7ally the way I was seeing it, it was completly bdummy proof. It was lovecat first sight forreal but it was over a thousand bucks that I didn't have but what I did did have was my rent money I was suppose to deposite that day. Long story short, I walked out of that store with that drone. Didnt know how I was going to do it but I was going t di one way or another ? And I DID. Anyway... I had ABSOLUTLY NO CLUE Of any rules and regulations. In m mind, noone thought it dangerous because I didn't didn't and surely if their were laws and rules and license blah blah they certainly wouldn't be selling them at sams club market and that was my mindset the first year I flew it and I flew it everyday practically the drone would Gould go up to 1,640 ft. Into n the clouds and I did that on the regular not to mention 2 and 3 miles distance everyday. I have some stories ?? lots of tem. I mean why would they make and allow the app to let me go those distances if itvwas unlawful. I mean I figured 1640 ft high must have been the key number to keep everyone safe. So yeahhhh I did those numbers 100's and 100's of times b4 I started watching you tube videos but even then the laws weren't as strict as they are now not even close. I mean the world around me aloud it, and never even once got questioned or even by anyone and I was a straight up cowboy with it. Blatantly did it in front of thousands of people cops no one questioned it and I mean litterally not one time was I ever even questioned other than just bystanders curios. Hell it was longer than a yearvb4vi even knew about NFZ zones and I live less than a mile away from Oceana Sir Base stripe I shared the sky with billion dollar aircraft. And on a few occasions there were some prety **** closeccalls. I could tell you more but ill end it with that. Cuz not only was absolutely none of what I said exaggerated in the slightest there plenty more I haven't told but that was then and I'm just grateful I never hurt anyone. But these days after all I ive gone through if anyone understands how dangerous these things are its me so I'm even more safe now flying than most are. I still have video ofsome VERY VERY VERY CLISE CSLLS TH8S ACTUALLY OTHER THAN MY BR9THER AND COUPLE FRIENDS IS THE FIRST TIME IVE TSLKED ABOUTVIT IIN PUBL7C . LETS JUSR SAY THERE WASONE ISTANCE I WASVSO SHOO UP I PUT THE DRONE IN MY BEDROOM CL8SET AND DIDNT EV3N LOOK AT IT ORV4 MONTHS BEFORE I GOT MY NE4VE BACK

 

[Cookedinlh]

Mavic 2 Enterprise or ED fitted with spotlights offer the VLOS range to be increased to 3000-5000feet or more . . LEGALLY . . as long as you or someone else (observer) see it and you "maintain control of the aircraft, know its location, and be able to scan the airspace in which it is operating in" . . direct quote Canadian Regs PART IX 901.11 definitions . . and can do so with the unaided eye (prescription glasses excluded). So this opens up a second method FOBS (Forward Observer) as for actual distance this could be a mile past that FOBS like this. That FOBS observer is standing on the shore near the 2100ft mark.
In practical terms, you can see a Mavic sized drone about 1400ft in good conditions and follow it out to 2200ft or more with either strobes or exceptional vision. But even then, if you look away from it in the hover, even for a few seconds, you will not be able to re-acquire unless you bring it closer or turn on the Spot Light!


We've tested this with several participants and proven it many times at the International Test Pilots School (ITPS Canada) in London Ontario.

. . . so the question might really be: Have you flown beyond a safe distance that violates the rules? Dave Cooke, Chief Instructor UAVs (CANDA and ITPS Canada)

 

[maelstrom]

It's almost impossible not to lose sight of the Mavic Mini, especially if you're flying out over the ocean

No, it's not - you just don't fly it so far away!

IF it so "inherently dangerous" to fly BVLOS, then why does the government even allow these things to be sold?

You could ask the same question about why the government allows cars to be sold that can travel at 150mph - because somewhere in the world it may be legal to do so. It's not that flying BVLOS is inherently dangerous, more that it's potentially dangerous.

 

[maelstrom]

so the question might really be: Have you flown beyond a safe distance that violates the rules? Dave Cooke, Chief Instructor UAVs

But, ultimately, it's not about a specific range. Saying that you should be able to see a drone at a particular distance doesn't mean that you can. The range at which you can see your drone will even vary from day to day depending on conditions. The fact that you could see your drone at 1500 ft last week in good weather doesn't mean that you can fly out to 1500 ft again this week in poor weather. In your first image, if the observer had been looking into sun, even if he was only 100 ft from the drone, he probably wouldn't be able to see it.