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Fess up- Have you broken the VLOS rule? (poll)

Have you broken the VLOS rule (more than once)?

  • Yes. I've gone beyond VLOS a very few times.

    Votes: 92 31.9%
  • Yes. I often fly beyond VLOS, but pay attention to the other rules.

    Votes: 129 44.8%
  • No. I never fly/have flown beyond where I can maintain visual contact with my drone.

    Votes: 67 23.3%

  • Total voters
    288
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This is silly, you are asking people to admit to breaking the law. You should have asked: If you have never flown beyond VLOS please so indicate.

I have never flown byond VLOS. However, I have unintentionally lost sight of my drone. On an earlier Phantom 1 (no camera) RTH was the only thing that saved it a couple of times.

I will openly say most times I fly it's BVLOS and if people are truly honest they will agree most flights if not all are beyond VLOS. To disagree means you never fly more than 100 feet away, never in trees, never around or through buildings. Be serious the VLOS thing is a joke everyone looses sight of the drone whenever you look at the controller or screen. It really is a silly question with an obvious honest answer. This is especially true with the Mavic Mini or Mini 2 which is about the size of a cell phone. Hell I drop my cell phone and almost loose sight of that :) It's a dumb rule and dumber reality. Again be honest and think about it.
 
It has to be the contrast that make it more visible. While strobes do present more contast during the day, they are small and have to overcome the amount of lightness in the sky that it competes with. OTOH, the dark jacket provides more contrast as well as a bigger target. One day I'll have some extra cash flow to buy one of those and a rain suit. Right now business is totally shut down and 95% down since last March. Sucks the big one. At least I can get outside and practice flying my drone, though there is very little here at this time worth filming.
 
I will openly say most times I fly it's BVLOS and if people are truly honest they will agree most flights if not all are beyond VLOS. To disagree means you never fly more than 100 feet away, never in trees, never around or through buildings. Be serious the VLOS thing is a joke everyone looses sight of the drone whenever you look at the controller or screen. It really is a silly question with an obvious honest answer. This is especially true with the Mavic Mini or Mini 2 which is about the size of a cell phone. Hell I drop my cell phone and almost loose sight of that :) It's a dumb rule and dumber reality. Again be honest and think about it.
Finally. There it is. A sane/honest person showed up.
 
The idea is if you fly beyond VLOS you bring it back, How would you not fly beyond VLOS to know you did in the first place, Guidelines are common sense.

Once you know your own Eyes limits , than you dial it down but every flyer is going test his or her limits in the sky and in order to do that you fly past.

With the Rescue Jacket on the Drone we get 3000 ft
Without the Rescue jacket we get 1800 ft but someone with younger eyes may do better ,
Others will add lights to there drone and again , you have to test the flight to see your own limits.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic in the Rain and Land on water.
Just ordered a Rescue Jacket from you, even though a couple of other vendors offer it at the same price with free shipping. Wanted to "keep it in the family" so to speak.
 
But, ultimately, it's not about a specific range. Saying that you should be able to see a drone at a particular distance doesn't mean that you can. The range at which you can see your drone will even vary from day to day depending on conditions. The fact that you could see your drone at 1500 ft last week in good weather doesn't mean that you can fly out to 1500 ft again this week in poor weather. In your first image, if the observer had been looking into sun, even if he was only 100 ft from the drone, he probably wouldn't be able to see it.
I will openly say most times I fly it's BVLOS and if people are truly honest they will agree most flights if not all are beyond VLOS. To disagree means you never fly more than 100 feet away, never in trees, never around or through buildings. Be serious the VLOS thing is a joke everyone looses sight of the drone whenever you look at the controller or screen. It really is a silly question with an obvious honest answer. This is especially true with the Mavic Mini or Mini 2 which is about the size of a cell phone. Hell I drop my cell phone and almost loose sight of that :) It's a dumb rule and dumber reality. Again be honest and think about it.
 

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Finally. There it is. A sane/honest person showed up.https://youtu.be/GHq-T27UVqg
You can admit to without worry. They have to see it. You could just be lieing. Just don't let anyone bait ya in to doinhttps://youtu.be/GHq-T27UVqg
 
It may be difficult to comply with (definitely not impossible), but it's certainly not a dumb rule. There's a good safety case supporting it for other users of the airspace.
Its dumber for some than others TBH ITS DUMB FOR SOME TO DO IT WITIN 100 FT LOL
 
You would think with those Bright lights that even in the sun light you would have further distance than the Rescue Jacket but its simply not the case: We found the rescue jackets offered a bigger target and was much easier to see than the lights at 3000 ft in a bright sky. Its interesting to note my eyes are bad thus why I appreciate the Rescue Jackets when flying further out to the lake.

One of the members posted this video:
Whats really nice is how smooth the video is for flying with a Rescue Jacket:: Were amazed everyday.

I love that screen showing all the info! What is that? I wish DJI would use that for the FLY APP
 
I love that screen showing all the info! What is that? I wish DJI would use that for the FLY APP

This is some amazing software but there is a learning curve
and with that said, this is the best video there is on how to use it.






Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain and Land on Water .
 
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Reactions: Mavikhan
Actually, I think if it's a law it's silly, I'm not going to care about it until some libtards managed to get it enforced in the lobby. Then I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy watching how they enforce it. As long as the app is registering the drone's location and showing me the live stream, I'm good, VLOSMA$$.
Hence more and more regulations
 
I love that screen showing all the info! What is that? I wish DJI would use that for the FLY APP
If you don't have SPOT LIGHT . . then that's a great piece of kit . . If you have a SPOT LIGHT though then 1-2 miles is practical in the right terrain. . . but here in Canada that "jacket" would be illegal because it's a "modification" not approved by the manufacturer. . so you really need an Enterprise to go further than about 2000ft on a good day
CARs PART IX 901.7 you can't fly any modified RPAS unless YOU can demonstrate compliance with Standard 922 RPAS Safety
 
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VLOS is a good rule... but perhaps a dumb law. I think everyone agrees that safety is the issue and everyone is in favor of operating their drone safely. However, there are a myriad of variables to every flight and just one set of rules.

My family owns 500 acres that I live on. I've got 1000's of acres of BLM on two sides. I've only had a drone for a month. I've only made three flights off of my property. In each of those cases I was in town and and strictly maintained VLOS.

On my property, I'm not as strict. When I fly my drone 3/4 of a mile away, never exceeding 120 ft agl, drop down into a field to 5 to 10 feet agl and check on my cattle... I freely admit I'm BVLOS. However, I do not believe I am unsafe or putting anyone at risk. There is certainly not going to be any manned aircraft at that altitude (say extremely unlikely. It is true I played with a gyrocopter in that field several years ago). At least there will be none I'm not aware of.

The fact is the only "near miss" I've had so far was when I was flying strictly VLOS within a couple hundred feet of me, I didn't realize that I had actually flown through some power lines, rather than above them as I thought, until I reviewed the video.

I guess I think of it like this: Many years ago when I first got my PPL, my DE said something along the lines of "It is virtually impossible to take-off in a plane, fly from point A to point B, and land without violating one of the FARs. The point of the rules is to conduct yourself as safely as possible, but if the FAA decides you are a menace to others, they can revoke your license at any time they feel it is necessary. Be comforted knowing that the FAA's goal is safety... not enforcement."
 
Mavic 2 Enterprise or ED fitted with spotlights offer the VLOS range to be increased to 3000-5000feet or more . . LEGALLY . . as long as you or someone else (observer) see it and you "maintain control of the aircraft, know its location, and be able to scan the airspace in which it is operating in" . . direct quote Canadian Regs PART IX 901.11 definitions . . and can do so with the unaided eye (prescription glasses excluded). So this opens up a second method FOBS (Forward Observer) as for actual distance this could be a mile past that FOBS like this. That FOBS observer is standing on the shore near the 2100ft mark.View attachment 121875
In practical terms, you can see a Mavic sized drone about 1400ft in good conditions and follow it out to 2200ft or more with either strobes or exceptional vision. But even then, if you look away from it in the hover, even for a few seconds, you will not be able to re-acquire unless you bring it closer or turn on the Spot Light!
View attachment 121874

We've tested this with several participants and proven it many times at the International Test Pilots School (ITPS Canada) in London Ontario.

. . . so the question might really be: Have you flown beyond a safe distance that violates the rules? Dave Cooke, Chief Instructor UAVs (CANDA and ITPS Canada)
I concur with everything you've said.
 
Im definitely NOT a lawbreaker! That being said I live in a totally forested area and the temptation to fly in my open 6 acre field 1200’ away presents a problem across ravines when ice and snow prevents me from going there. I run simple missions on automation software exploring winter woods landscape. So fun!
 
The idea is if you fly beyond VLOS you bring it back, How would you not fly beyond VLOS to know you did in the first place, Guidelines are common sense.

Once you know your own Eyes limits , than you dial it down but every flyer is going test his or her limits in the sky and in order to do that you fly past.

With the Rescue Jacket on the Drone we get 3000 ft
Without the Rescue jacket we get 1800 ft but someone with younger eyes may do better ,
Others will add lights to there drone and again , you have to test the flight to see your own limits.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic in the Rain and Land on water.
What is a rescue jacket?
 
Interesting read, diverse opinions and a lot of angles covered, let’s face it there’s a lot of a angles to this.

I’ve seen a few comments about how people interpret the VLOS rule, here in Australia there is no room for interpretation. It’s laid out clearly. VLOS is the distance at which the pilot can see and orient the drone with the naked eye with no other aid than corrective lenses. No extra leeway for strobes either. You not only need to be able to see it by eye but you also need to be able to tell which way it is pointing. So if you’re flying a Mini in a snow storm VLOS would be maybe 10 feet. If you’re flying an Inspire on a cloudy day with a dark cloud background maybe 1200 to 1500 feet. CASA here does accept that you may lose sight briefly while checking telemetry or due to obstacles and they just stipulate that you must handle these things in a reasonable and safe manner which gives you some leeway in how you operate in busy terrain and of course gives them plenty of leeway to prosecute you if it goes pear shaped lol.

Generally speaking, in good conditions with my eyesight and comfort levels for a Phantom or Mavic sized drone I feel at about 800 feet +/- I could always justify myself to the regulator in the event of an investigation.

I’m a commercial operator with a small drone business, without even going into hanger inventory I’ve got thousands invested in my certifications and training, Australia is a nanny state where the government just knows for sure that they can protect us from everything including ourselves if they just pass enough laws and they are not slow to enforce those laws (in our own self interest don’t you know) so in my case the answer is no, I never ever fly BVLOS illegally regardless of my feelings about the rules which I’ll get to in a minute.

In the last year CASA has introduced a framework within the regulations which makes it possible to fly what they call “Extended Line of Sight” and at night under a strict set of conditions which I won’t won’t quote in the interest of keeping this post to the length of only a short novel but suffice to say it involves multiple (accredited) spotters, at least two forms of communication between all spotters and the pilot and never at greater distance than 80% of the manufacturer’s stated range and other factors and a metric ton of paperwork.

i’ve done some flights under that regime now, my maximum distance from memory was I think 4.6km (that’s a touch over 15000ft for the metrically challenged lol) and .... no biggie really. Yes, I was in a state of shall we say “heightened awareness” but honestly more of my attention was required to monitor the fact that I wasn’t exceeding the authorised parameters for the flight than to actually perform the flight.

I’d do it again under conditions I feel comfortable with in a heartbeat. By “under conditions I feel comfortable with” I mean over unpopulated countryside, ocean or large body of water where there is no airport, helipad, installation or situation that might have manned aircraft flying below the usual 500ft AGL accepted minimum. I mean, I would for example never fly BVLOS over a big city or near an airport even if it was a sanctioned and approved flight. I have often turned down legal jobs that I am not comfortable with. I don’t do weddings and crowd photography. I don’t want to live with the drone “weed wacking” through the bridal party if something goes skew iff.

As to what I actually think about the restrictions, well personally I think they’re a crock. We’re told that we’re unable to effectively operate in three dimensions from a two dimensional display. Well, from what I see they seem to be able to whack Islamic state with predators in the middle east pretty effectively even if the operator is in Virginia. Yes, of course those operators have other resources available to them but so do we. Not of the same level perhaps but we’re not flying on the other side of the world either.

Also to address the issue directly, these restrictions are placed in the name of safety. Well, as a youger fitter man I was involved in manned aviation. I’m of reasonable intellectual ability and I really take issue with the asserted level of threat posed by consumer level drones to manned aviation. As Bruce (Xjet on Youtube) likes to say “Show me the bodies” and of course there are none. Remotely operated models have been around 80 years and drone 10 or more and despite the constant cries of “the sky is falling” we’re still waiting for that aviation disaster caused by a drone.

We’re had one (now thoroughly debunked) university study on the dangers posed by a drone strike on a light aircraft and 3 *confirmed* cases of collisions between drones and manned aircraft that I am aware of (seems to be helicopters drawing the short straw here) with no loss of life, injury or genuine emergency situation arising. Yes, the pilot of the law enforcement heli that had a collision with a drone a month of so back did immediately put down and he or she is to be commended for that as caution is always paramount in those cases but in truth the damage on all three of those cases was little more than superficial. Far far less than what would be seen in a bird strike which is a real and present but accepted threat level in manned aviation.

The laws *as they stand* in my opinion can be characterised if you are generous as “gross governmental overreach” or, if you are prone to the “there was a shooter on the grassy knowl” school of thought a blatant conspiracy to clear the playing field for big business. In either school of thought while I would not argue to an “open slather” approach I do feel there is scope for commercial and recreational operators to be allowed BVLOS in many situations with little real world risk.

Don’t even get me started on remote I.D.

In the mean time, the law is the law, I like having my certifications, equipment and not being prosecuted so I’ll do as I’m told to the letter as I have more to lose than many.

Once again, sorry for the short story.

Regards
Ari
 
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Interesting read, diverse opinions and a lot of angles covered, let’s face it there’s a lot of a angles to this.

I’ve seen a few comments about how people interpret the VLOS rule, here in Australia there is no room for interpretation. It’s laid out clearly. VLOS is the distance at which the pilot can see and orient the drone with the naked eye with no other aid than corrective lenses. No extra leeway for strobes either. You not only need to be able to see it by eye but you also need to be able to tell which way it is pointing. So if you’re flying a Mini in a snow storm VLOS would be maybe 10 feet. If you’re flying an Inspire on a cloudy day with a dark cloud background maybe 1200 to 1500 feet. CASA here does accept that you may lose sight briefly while checking telemetry or due to obstacles and they just stipulate that you must handle these things in a reasonable and safe manner which gives you some leeway in how you operate in busy terrain and of course gives them plenty of leeway to prosecute you if it goes pear shaped lol.

Generally speaking, in good conditions with my eyesight and comfort levels for a Phantom or Mavic sized drone I feel at about 800 feet +/- I could always justify myself to the regulator in the event of an investigation.

I’m a commercial operator with a small drone business, without even going into hanger inventory I’ve got thousands invested in my certifications and training, Australia is a nanny state where the government just knows for sure that they can protect us from everything including ourselves if they just pass enough laws and they are not slow to enforce those laws (in our own self interest don’t you know) so in my case the answer is no, I never ever fly BVLOS illegally regardless of my feelings about the rules which I’ll get to in a minute.

In the last year CASA has introduced a framework within the regulations which makes it possible to fly what they call “Extended Line of Sight” and at night under a strict set of conditions which I won’t won’t quote in the interest of keeping this post to the length of only a short novel but suffice to say it involves multiple (accredited) spotters, at least two forms of communication between all spotters and the pilot and never at greater distance than 80% of the manufacturer’s stated range and other factors and a metric ton of paperwork.

i’ve done some flights under that regime now, my maximum distance from memory was I think 4.6km (that’s a touch over 15000ft for the metrically challenged lol) and .... no biggie really. Yes, I was in a state of shall we say “heightened awareness” but honestly more of my attention was required to monitor the fact that I wasn’t exceeding the authorised parameters for the flight than to actually perform the flight.

I’d do it again under conditions I feel comfortable with in a heartbeat. By “under conditions I feel comfortable with” I mean over unpopulated countryside, ocean or large body of water where there is no airport, helipad, installation or situation that might have manned aircraft flying below the usual 500ft AGL accepted minimum. I mean, I would for example never fly BVLOS over a big city of near an airport even if it was a sanctioned and approved flight. I have often turned down legal jobs that I am not comfortable with. I don’t do weddings and crowd photography. I don’t want to live with the drone “weed wacking” through the bridal party if something goes skew iff.

As to what I actually think about the restrictions, well personally I think they’re a crock. We’re told that we’re unable to effectively operate in three dimensions from a two dimensional display. Well, from what I see they seem to be able to whack Islamic state with predators in the middle east pretty effectively even if the operator is in Virginia. Yes, of course those operators have other resources available to them but so do we. Not of the same level perhaps but we’re not flying on the other side of the world either.

Also to address the issue directly, these restrictions are placed in the name of safety. Well, as a youger fitter man I was involved in manned aviation. I’m of reasonable intellectual ability and I really take issue with the asserted level of threat posed by consumer level drones to manned aviation. As Bruce (Xjet on Youtube) likes to say “Show me the bodies” and of course there are none. Remotely operated models have been around 80 years and drone 10 or more and despite the constant cries of “the sky is falling” we’re still waiting for that aviation disaster caused by a drone.

We’re had one (now thoroughly debunked) university study on the dangers posed by a drone strike on a light aircraft and 3 *confirmed* cases of collisions between drones and manned aircraft that I am aware of (seems ro be helicopters drawing the short straw here) with no loss of life, injury or genuine emergency situation arising. Yes, the pilot of the law enforcement heli that had a collision with a drone a month of so back did immediately put down and he or she is to be commended for that as caution is always paramount in those cases but in truth the damage on all three of those cases was little more than superficial. Far far less than what would be seen in a bird strike which is a real and present but accepted threat level in manned aviation.

The laws *as they stand* in my opinion can be characterised if you are generous as “gross governmental overreach” or, if you are prone to the “there was a shooter on the grassy knowl” school of thought a blatant conspiracy to clear the playing field for big business. In either school of thought while I would not argue to an “open slather” approach I do feel there is scope for commercial and recreational operators to be allowed BVLOS in many situations with little real world risk.

Don’t even get me started on remote I.D.

In the mean time, the law is the law, I like having my certifications, equipment and not being prosecuted so I’ll do as I’m told to the letter as I have more to lose than many.

Once again, sorry for the short story.

Regards
Ari

You make some valid points that many us can agree to , but you have to love as I do that they even allow for long distance flights with spotters, because honestly not only is it challenging to get spotters but they struggle to see the drone , they miss it, there not watching every second , its the craziest loop hole and honestly I love it.

With a simple phone call I can call 10 people to look out there window , its just insane.

Now the reason why I am having fun with this is because who the heck came out with this non sense and why has it stood the test of time as everything else has changed but this they seem to hold on to and there not letting go..

When the day comes when spotters are no longer allowed than I think the industry is in for a rude awakening but until than, Everywhere I go i pass out my Do you want to be a spotter card , ;)

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in and out of the Storm.
 
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