Flight restriction in national parks.

[Pontoon-pilot]

I was in Big bend nat park in Texas. It is a high desert of 800,000+ acres of rugged mountains as well just plain desert with unlivable cactus-filled dry land. There are busy areas where people populate for hiking and camping, and there are many roads some paved but mostly dirt off roads branching off into nothing into the desert.
I had my drone with me and found a remote parking area near the Rio Grand river with very few or sometimes no people at times and tried to sneak an opportunity to take some pictures from the birds-eye view. Nothing crazy, not out of sight just simply go up to pass the tree lines to see the river carving through the mountains. As I am setting a lady emerges from a trail and walks right up and said: "you better not take off with that thing or you will face a fine and lose your drone. She identified her self as an off duty park ranger from another state (Mississippi if I recall). We talked and asked what could be the harm? Her answer was, these things are so cheap and available to anyone that people buy it in the mall not knowing how to fly it and the drones end up in the tree, she used an example of a drone ending up in civil war era historic tree and they had to retrieve it. We talked again that this drone is not inexpensive, has lots of technology with cameras that avoid trees/people/collisions. She was impressed. She advised me that I can apply for a special permit - which only a few people get. Eventually departed and went on her way. I packed up my stuff.
It bothers me that I have this expensive flying camera that can take pictures, pictures that are so different than we take on the ground, pictures from above with dept. and we are restricted to use it to enjoy what nature offers to us.
Ok, off my soapbox.
I can not accept this reason... that some people did something bad and now none of us can legally use our drones in nat. parks.

This here... ladies and gentleman.... is the USA - Mexico border, and the mighty Rio grand river. These are not drone pictures.
Camera's date is incorrect/not set.

 

[brett8883]

I was in Big bend nat park in Texas. It is a high desert of 800,000+ acres of rugged mountains as well just plain desert with unlivable cactus-filled dry land. There are busy areas where people populate for hiking and camping, and there are many roads some paved but mostly dirt off roads branching off into nothing into the desert.
I had my drone with me and found a remote parking area near the Rio Grand river with very few or sometimes no people at times and tried to sneak an opportunity to take some pictures from the birds-eye view. Nothing crazy, not out of sight just simply go up to pass the tree lines to see the river carving through the mountains. As I am setting a lady emerges from a trail and walks right up and said: "you better not take off with that thing or you will face a fine and lose your drone. She identified her self as an off duty park ranger from another state (Mississippi if I recall). We talked and asked what could be the harm? Her answer was, these things are so cheap and available to anyone that people buy it in the mall not knowing how to fly it and the drones end up in the tree, she used an example of a drone ending up in civil war era historic tree and they had to retrieve it. We talked again that this drone is not inexpensive, has lots of technology with cameras that avoid trees/people/collisions. She was impressed. She advised me that I can apply for a special permit - which only a few people get. Eventually departed and went on her way. I packed up my stuff.
It bothers me that I have this expensive flying camera that can take pictures, pictures that are so different than we take on the ground, pictures from above with dept. and we are restricted to use it to enjoy what nature offers to us.
Ok, off my soapbox.
I can not accept this reason... that some people did something bad and now none of us can legally use our drones in nat. parks.

This here... ladies and gentleman.... is the USA - Mexico border, and the mighty Rio grand river. These are not drone pictures.
Camera's date is incorrect/not set.

View attachment 94824

View attachment 94830

It seems depending on who you ask at NPS you’ll get a different answer as to the why. The official stance is they are noisy and interfere with wildlife. Apparently the UAS the NPS uses all the time are silent and invisible. They don’t really issue permits. It’s like the getting an FAA waiver for BVLOS. It’s just so the NPS can say that there is a permit process. They don’t issue them to anybody except to contractors they hire themselves.

 

[OurAngryBadger]

So they don't allow it because they interfere with wildlife. I get it. But I'll get on my soapbox.

WE are wildlife too. Just like any other sentient animal on the planet, we eat, sleep, drink, replicate, urinate, get old, and die. We are just gorillas that have evolved fast enough to have a written language and use tools.

So do we care if other animals interfere with other animals? Do we get upset if a wolf kills and eats a deer?

Look, I get it. I'm all for protecting the environment and not making animals go extinct. But out of all the things that us "humans" do to interfere with nature, flying a small drone is probably the lowest on the totem pole. The only things it's going to do is make other birds want to attack it. And 10/10 times, the non-plastic bird wins.

Us humans have really big egos. We think it's our job to police the world and keep wildlife in check. In reality, we are just existing like any other animal. Our prime directive is to survive and replicate before we die.

So this is just a rant. If drones really do cause great harm to wildlife, sure, ban them from parks. But I've never seen any data at all supporting this claim. Ok I could maybe see a drone scaring wildlife and making them run or fly away. But how is it REALLY any different than a predator scaring away wildlife? Because we are "humans"? So is it fine then if the mere act of walking or running through a park scares away wildlife? Lets just ban all humans from parks. Problem solved.

 

[DanMan32]

Note that the restriction is an NPS rule and not an FAA rule. NPS cannot dictate anything in the air, but they can dictate where you stand in their jurisdiction to operate your quad, or where it takes off/lands. I'm not necessarily advocating circumventing the rules on a technicality, just pointing out the distinction. Probably doesn't help you much anyway since you probably can't reach where you want to fly from outside of NPS territory.

It is quite a bit of overkill blanketing all of NPS territory, much of it being harmless to anyone/anything but that's how it's is. It was supposed to be a trial and evaluate restriction that never got past the implementation stage.

 

[brett8883]

So they don't allow it because they interfere with wildlife. I get it. But I'll get on my soapbox.

WE are wildlife too. Just like any other sentient animal on the planet, we eat, sleep, drink, replicate, urinate, get old, and die. We are just gorillas that have evolved fast enough to have a written language and use tools.

So do we care if other animals interfere with other animals? Do we get upset if a wolf kills and eats a deer?

Look, I get it. I'm all for protecting the environment and not making animals go extinct. But out of all the things that us "humans" do to interfere with nature, flying a small drone is probably the lowest on the totem pole. The only things it's going to do is make other birds want to attack it. And 10/10 times, the non-plastic bird wins.

Well and the other thing is what about all these cars and buses they allow in? Can’t tell me they are less disruptive than a drone. I had a NFS ranger tell me my drone was too noisy and he was gonna get complaints. As he was speaking a snow mobile passed with a deafening roar so load he had to stop speaking, which the NFS allows. I gave him the raised eye brow and he said that they paid for a permit as if that was a rational explanation.

Not to mention many National Parks there is no wildlife. Here in Utah we have 4 national parks and they are in basically lifeless desolate desert. Only living things is sage grass and tarantulas and I’m not sure either have ears.

 

[OurAngryBadger]

Well and the other thing is what about all these cars and buses they allow in? Can’t tell me they are less disruptive than a drone. I had a NFS ranger tell me my drone was too noisy and he was gonna get complaints. As he was speaking a snow mobile passed with a deafening roar so load he had to stop speaking, which the NFS allows. I gave him the raised eye brow and he said that they paid for a permit as if that was a rational explanation.

Not to mention many National Parks there is no wildlife. Here in Utah we have 4 national parks and they are in basically lifeless desolate desert. Only living things is sage grass and tarantulas and I’m not sure either have ears.

Excellent point. I remember my trip 15 years ago to Yosemite which has a MAIN HiGHWAY running through it that tractor trailers even sometimes use. But a little tiny drone making a buzzing sound? Nah thats not allowed.

As you get older you realize that the PROBLEM is government bureaucracy. Rarely does government apply any logic or common sense to the laws, rules, and regulations they pass.

 

[Jaspar]

I was in Big bend nat park in Texas. It is a high desert of 800,000+ acres of rugged mountains as well just plain desert with unlivable cactus-filled dry land. There are busy areas where people populate for hiking and camping, and there are many roads some paved but mostly dirt off roads branching off into nothing into the desert.
I had my drone with me and found a remote parking area near the Rio Grand river with very few or sometimes no people at times and tried to sneak an opportunity to take some pictures from the birds-eye view. Nothing crazy, not out of sight just simply go up to pass the tree lines to see the river carving through the mountains. As I am setting a lady emerges from a trail and walks right up and said: "you better not take off with that thing or you will face a fine and lose your drone. She identified her self as an off duty park ranger from another state (Mississippi if I recall). We talked and asked what could be the harm? Her answer was, these things are so cheap and available to anyone that people buy it in the mall not knowing how to fly it and the drones end up in the tree, she used an example of a drone ending up in civil war era historic tree and they had to retrieve it. We talked again that this drone is not inexpensive, has lots of technology with cameras that avoid trees/people/collisions. She was impressed. She advised me that I can apply for a special permit - which only a few people get. Eventually departed and went on her way. I packed up my stuff.
It bothers me that I have this expensive flying camera that can take pictures, pictures that are so different than we take on the ground, pictures from above with dept. and we are restricted to use it to enjoy what nature offers to us.
Ok, off my soapbox.
I can not accept this reason... that some people did something bad and now none of us can legally use our drones in nat. parks.

This here... ladies and gentleman.... is the USA - Mexico border, and the mighty Rio grand river. These are not drone pictures.
Camera's date is incorrect/not set.

View attachment 94824

View attachment 94830

They just don’t want us to visit their precious parks in case our pictures encourage too many others and disturb nature

 

[MBurris]

I was in Big bend nat park in Texas. It is a high desert of 800,000+ acres of rugged mountains as well just plain desert with unlivable cactus-filled dry land. There are busy areas where people populate for hiking and camping, and there are many roads some paved but mostly dirt off roads branching off into nothing into the desert.
I had my drone with me and found a remote parking area near the Rio Grand river with very few or sometimes no people at times and tried to sneak an opportunity to take some pictures from the birds-eye view. Nothing crazy, not out of sight just simply go up to pass the tree lines to see the river carving through the mountains. As I am setting a lady emerges from a trail and walks right up and said: "you better not take off with that thing or you will face a fine and lose your drone. She identified her self as an off duty park ranger from another state (Mississippi if I recall). We talked and asked what could be the harm? Her answer was, these things are so cheap and available to anyone that people buy it in the mall not knowing how to fly it and the drones end up in the tree, she used an example of a drone ending up in civil war era historic tree and they had to retrieve it. We talked again that this drone is not inexpensive, has lots of technology with cameras that avoid trees/people/collisions. She was impressed. She advised me that I can apply for a special permit - which only a few people get. Eventually departed and went on her way. I packed up my stuff.
It bothers me that I have this expensive flying camera that can take pictures, pictures that are so different than we take on the ground, pictures from above with dept. and we are restricted to use it to enjoy what nature offers to us.
Ok, off my soapbox.
I can not accept this reason... that some people did something bad and now none of us can legally use our drones in nat. parks.

This here... ladies and gentleman.... is the USA - Mexico border, and the mighty Rio grand river. These are not drone pictures.
Camera's date is incorrect/not set.

View attachment 94824

View attachment 94830

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we need representation to counter governmental excesses. There are no credible statistics to show how many uninvolved passerbys were injured or harmed. And certainly not any desert critters.

 

[jeaves]

I totally agree. I live in middle Tennessee, just a few miles from Natchez Trace Parkway. I kindly requested permission to fly and get awesome pictures but was told no. National Park Service (NPS) owns the land, however FAA owns the airspace and most of the Parkway is Class G uncontrolled airspace. So Saturday (2/22/2020) I stood about a foot or 2 off NPS land and flew, knowing any park ranger couldn't cause me any trouble.
Tennessee state parks are almost as bad. Each individual park manager gets to decide, however state law says I can carry a gun into a state park but I can't fly a drone without park manager's permission, and so far 3 park managers have told me no.
So guns yes, drones no.

 

[15PSI]

Here in Virginia, with beautiful parks and Skyline Drive as well, Drones are strictly prohibited. Here is the official Document:

https://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state-parks/document/rules-drones.pdf

 

[OurAngryBadger]

I totally agree. I live in middle Tennessee, just a few miles from Natchez Trace Parkway. I kindly requested permission to fly and get awesome pictures but was told no. National Park Service (NPS) owns the land, however FAA owns the airspace and most of the Parkway is Class G uncontrolled airspace. So Saturday (2/22/2020) I stood about a foot or 2 off NPS land and flew, knowing any park ranger couldn't cause me any trouble.
Tennessee state parks are almost as bad. Each individual park manager gets to decide, however state law says I can carry a gun into a state park but I can't fly a drone without park manager's permission, and so far 3 park managers have told me no.
So guns yes, drones no.

Another amazing example.

Let's ban drones because because they scare wildlife. But you want to shoot and kill wildlife with a gun? Nah that's fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For the record, I am pro-gun and a hunter.

 

[brett8883]

Another amazing example.

Let's ban drones because because they scare wildlife. But you want to shoot and kill wildlife with a gun? Nah that's fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For the record, I am pro-gun and a hunter.

I don’t think you can hunt on National Park land can you? Not to be confused with National Forest land which you certainly can but drones are also welcome.

 

[OurAngryBadger]

I don’t think you can hunt on National Park land can you? Not to be confused with National Forest land which you certainly can but drones are also welcome.

Most of them, no, but it appears they do have 41 parks where it is allowed,

Visit - Hunting (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

It does not specify if a permit is needed though

 

[brett8883]

Here in Virginia, with beautiful parks and Skyline Drive as well, Drones are strictly prohibited. Here is the official Document:

https://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state-parks/document/rules-drones.pdf

This is Virginia State Park rules not National Parks rules. While it is a similar and equally odd rule it is different.

Here in Utah drones are allowed in State Parks with the exception of Antelope Island which limits drones to a small window of the year.

To fly in the State Park you just need to pay a $5 fee and fill out an application for a permit but they are immediately and automatically granted as long as you provide the registration #. I find this to be an extremely reasonable process.

I wish that other State’s and NPS would adopt this procedure. I even think $5 is low. I’d be ok with $10-$20 at the state level and $50 at the National Park level.

Someone earlier mentioned that we need representation to fight for our interests and I totally agree. While organizations like the AMA have been doing what they thought was the right type of lobbying, it’s become obvious to me they have been too accommodating to the FAA and the FAA has taken advantage of the FAAs and DJIs willingness to co-operate with them. We need a special interest group like the NRA which takes a scorched earth approach. Love or hate the NRA no one can deny their effectiveness.

 

[Tkoglin]

It bugs me that I have an expensive camera and I can’t walk into the White House and take pictures ?

 

[DroningOn]

Everybody should use the search feature and go as far back as 2016 and on the phantom site going back earlier. You will see members, most if not all of them are still here, contorting themselves into pretzels defending and justifying the National Park ban. It is/was ludicrous and sad.
Remember that this ban was instituted in 2014. Long before the “explosion“ of camera drone ownership and use. In 2014 no wildlife or people were harmed or even bothered by a camera drone. It didn’t matter, bureaucrats who had never even seen one in person made an arbitrary decision based on NO facts to take away national parks from us to enjoy in this way.

 

[BigAl07]

Everybody should use the search feature and go as far back as 2016 and on the phantom site going back earlier. You will see members, most if not all of them are still here, contorting themselves into pretzels defending and justifying the National Park ban. It is/was ludicrous and sad.
Remember that this ban was instituted in 2014. Long before the “explosion“ of camera drone ownership and use. In 2014 no wildlife or people were harmed or even bothered by a camera drone. It didn’t matter, bureaucrats who had never even seen one in person made an arbitrary decision based on NO facts to take away national parks from us to enjoy in this way.

As for one of those people who were and ARE "contorting themselves into pretzels defending and justifying the National Park ban" I take offense to your words. I spend a LOT of time in the woods away from modern tech in order to enjoy nature "As it is". The last thing I want to see/hear is a noisy aUAS beebopping around and spoiling the whole reason we went into the woods to begin with. That's also why in many of "Said places" you won't see powered bikes, ATV's, 4x4 etc. Heck a lot of the NPS land where I am located is genuine Wilderness Area and they can't even place signage for hikers etc because it would spoil the WILDERNESS.

Go find somewhere else to fly that does NOT ruin it for those who are there to enjoy it as it is!!!

 

[DroningOn]

As for one of those people who were and ARE "contorting themselves into pretzels defending and justifying the National Park ban" I take offense to your words

Imagine my surprise.....
But thank you for responding. Let’s let people see all sides to this issue and make up their own minds

 

[robbieh]

I was in Big bend nat park in Texas. It is a high desert of 800,000+ acres of rugged mountains as well just plain desert with unlivable cactus-filled dry land. There are busy areas where people populate for hiking and camping, and there are many roads some paved but mostly dirt off roads branching off into nothing into the desert.
I had my drone with me and found a remote parking area near the Rio Grand river with very few or sometimes no people at times and tried to sneak an opportunity to take some pictures from the birds-eye view. Nothing crazy, not out of sight just simply go up to pass the tree lines to see the river carving through the mountains. As I am setting a lady emerges from a trail and walks right up and said: "you better not take off with that thing or you will face a fine and lose your drone. She identified her self as an off duty park ranger from another state (Mississippi if I recall). We talked and asked what could be the harm? Her answer was, these things are so cheap and available to anyone that people buy it in the mall not knowing how to fly it and the drones end up in the tree, she used an example of a drone ending up in civil war era historic tree and they had to retrieve it. We talked again that this drone is not inexpensive, has lots of technology with cameras that avoid trees/people/collisions. She was impressed. She advised me that I can apply for a special permit - which only a few people get. Eventually departed and went on her way. I packed up my stuff.
It bothers me that I have this expensive flying camera that can take pictures, pictures that are so different than we take on the ground, pictures from above with dept. and we are restricted to use it to enjoy what nature offers to us.
Ok, off my soapbox.
I can not accept this reason... that some people did something bad and now none of us can legally use our drones in nat. parks.

This here... ladies and gentleman.... is the USA - Mexico border, and the mighty Rio grand river. These are not drone pictures.
Camera's date is incorrect/not set.

View attachment 94824

View attachment 94830

There are rules for photography in general in national parks under certain circumstances: Commercial Filming & Still Photography Permits (U.S. National Park Service)
WA State Parks require permits: Remote Controlled Aircraft Permit | Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission I have never applied for one so don't know if they are hard or easy to get.

 

[robbieh]

Here is a page telling about all the trouble you can get into. In my own opinion, there are a lot of very stupid inconsiderate people who through their thoughtless and selfish behavior, give the rest of us a bad name.

Unmanned Aircraft in the National Parks (U.S. National Park Service)

Information about unmanned aircraft (or drone) use in national parks.

www.nps.gov