Flying in Fog crash

[Triggus]

Hi all, new to the forums and quite new to drones as well. Clocked couple hours of flying Mini and Mini2 still learning the ropes though.
As keen photographer I bought Mini few months ago to aid my still shooting and immediately fell in love. This means I am quite often flying my drone in quite difficult conditions at least for a newbie (almost lost my Mini in the mountains and miraculously recovered it..but this another story!)
Always trying to prepare as much as I can and to some reading to learn from others on the forum and see what they are doing, what are these little drones capable of and this is amazing stuff. Yet still managed to crash my drone 3 times and almost lost it ones
The two recent crashes happened today to be precise.
Just went for little sunrise practise session this morning hoping for some possibly nice shots as there was some fog forecasted. It was quite cold as well around -3 C.
I have flown my drone in the foggy conditions before not this thick though and in much higher temps.
It started nicely flying from the top of the hill in very thick mist, get up to max altitude of 120m and moved a mile or so to get a clear view over the fog. Flying out of sight
and GPS still get me a bit nervous so the footage isn't great especially since battery drains much quicker in such a cold temperature and I wasn't sure if this is indicated on the screen properly (lack of experience!)
Anyway it went quite smooth and I managed to land it nicely without any play up from the landing sensors (i've read these can be fooled by fog sometimes and getting it back on ground could be tricky). It was a bit wet and iced here and there mostly on the propellers,
Picture below nothing really worth dying for



I've put it into the bag and was on my way back to car when I spotted scene that caught my eye (Old ruined church on the top of the hill covered in fog). Could not resist, pull drone from the bag, it still had some 60% battery left so took it off and started filming, after 2-3 minutes of filming my Mini2 just suddenly fell down luckily for me it wasn't flying very high some 10-12m and felt on the grass couple meters further it would felt down the cliff on the side of the church.
Anyway I picked it inspected replaced the battery thinking that might have been the issue, and did a short test flight, a minute or so later it fell on the top of nearby tree, spent good hour trying to locate and recover it.
When reviewing the log in the Fly app spotted couple errors that showed up briefly before crashing one being "Motor Error" without any further explanation, another one "Max Power load reached:.." and this right before crash when the drone was actually hovering in Cine mode. There was no wind today at all.
So my confidence is pretty low atm, I might refuse to take off without handful of xanax first!
Need to find out what happened. Was it a combination of frost and fog (humidity/ice)? Why the first flight much longer, higher, longer in fog and then in probably even lower temp was OK, and the next short, low one was a total failure? Did the fact it spend some 10 minutes in the bag after first flight (ice melted?) add to it ?
Have any one experienced anything like that here?
Those conditions are always risky I am aware of that, yet I have seen ton of happy flying in the fog and frost from Mavic pilots, so did not think it will just suddenly fall of the sky.
Think of the guy who did the proper Himalyas panorama with Mavic flying at some 6 or 7k in killer winds and temps (well he had a modified drone and full support from Dji on that project afaik)

Cheers!

 

[Deleted member 103366]

in very thick mist, get up to max altitude of 120m and moved a mile or so to get a clear view over the fog. Flying out of sight

1st point, are you aware the out of sight is contary to CAA drone regulations? Be that because of distance, 1 mile?, or because of mist etc.
2nd point I would warm your batteries prior flying in the cold, carry them inside your clothing etc.
Sorry but I am inclined to think you were a bit cavalier. Freezing temperatures and fog do not sound like a good mix to me. Either on their own, maybe, but together hmmmmm but that is just my opinion. And yes I know the temptation of flying above fog or low cloud, as a ground hog I have seen some fogs etc. that I very much regretted not being able to get above, for the views they would have created.
As to the problems, a guess would be the icing reducing prop efficiency and or adding weight resulting in the MAx power warning, With regards to the motor error is it possible ice broke off and got into a motor?
Did you dry the drone once the ice melted?
I would be inclined to store it somewhere warm and DRY for a day or so.
Unfortunately I am not certain that the Mini 2 flight logs are available to us mere pilots anymore, if I am wrong someone please correct me.

 

[Lastrexking]

1st point, are you aware the out of sight is contary to CAA drone regulations? Be that because of distance, 1 mile?, or because of mist etc.
2nd point I would warm your batteries prior flying in the cold, carry them inside your clothing etc.
Sorry but I am inclined to think you were a bit cavalier. Freezing temperatures and fog do not sound like a good mix to me. Either on their own, maybe, but together hmmmmm but that is just my opinion. And yes I know the temptation of flying above fog or low cloud, as a ground hog I have seen some fogs etc. that I very much regretted not being able to get above, for the views they would have created.
As to the problems, a guess would be the icing reducing prop efficiency and or adding weight resulting in the MAx power warning, With regards to the motor error is it possible ice broke off and got into a motor?
Did you dry the drone once the ice melted?
I would be inclined to store it somewhere warm and DRY for a day or so.
Unfortunately I am not certain that the Mini 2 flight logs are available to us mere pilots anymore, if I am wrong someone please correct me.

Whilst all of this is absolutely correct I wouldn’t worry about it. As per the Mini2 manual, flying in the fog isn’t advised as it messes with the sensors of the Mavic series, and quite often causes them to crash - so, OP isn’t likely to have a drone for long. Let’s just hope it doesn’t fall on anyone/thing when it crashes out of the sky. They won’t know about it though as they clearly won’t be able to see It from a mile away ?

 

[photo2be]

Hi all, new to the forums and quite new to drones as well. Clocked couple hours of flying Mini and Mini2 still learning the ropes though.
As keen photographer I bought Mini few months ago to aid my still shooting and immediately fell in love. This means I am quite often flying my drone in quite difficult conditions at least for a newbie (almost lost my Mini in the mountains and miraculously recovered it..but this another story!)
Always trying to prepare as much as I can and to some reading to learn from others on the forum and see what they are doing, what are these little drones capable of and this is amazing stuff. Yet still managed to crash my drone 3 times and almost lost it ones
The two recent crashes happened today to be precise.
Just went for little sunrise practise session this morning hoping for some possibly nice shots as there was some fog forecasted. It was quite cold as well around -3 C.
I have flown my drone in the foggy conditions before not this thick though and in much higher temps.
It started nicely flying from the top of the hill in very thick mist, get up to max altitude of 120m and moved a mile or so to get a clear view over the fog. Flying out of sight
and GPS still get me a bit nervous so the footage isn't great especially since battery drains much quicker in such a cold temperature and I wasn't sure if this is indicated on the screen properly (lack of experience!)
Anyway it went quite smooth and I managed to land it nicely without any play up from the landing sensors (i've read these can be fooled by fog sometimes and getting it back on ground could be tricky). It was a bit wet and iced here and there mostly on the propellers,
Picture below nothing really worth dying for
View attachment 121108


I've put it into the bag and was on my way back to car when I spotted scene that caught my eye (Old ruined church on the top of the hill covered in fog). Could not resist, pull drone from the bag, it still had some 60% battery left so took it off and started filming, after 2-3 minutes of filming my Mini2 just suddenly fell down luckily for me it wasn't flying very high some 10-12m and felt on the grass couple meters further it would felt down the cliff on the side of the church.
Anyway I picked it inspected replaced the battery thinking that might have been the issue, and did a short test flight, a minute or so later it fell on the top of nearby tree, spent good hour trying to locate and recover it.
When reviewing the log in the Fly app spotted couple errors that showed up briefly before crashing one being "Motor Error" without any further explanation, another one "Max Power load reached:.." and this right before crash when the drone was actually hovering in Cine mode. There was no wind today at all.
So my confidence is pretty low atm, I might refuse to take off without handful of xanax first!
Need to find out what happened. Was it a combination of frost and fog (humidity/ice)? Why the first flight much longer, higher, longer in fog and then in probably even lower temp was OK, and the next short, low one was a total failure? Did the fact it spend some 10 minutes in the bag after first flight (ice melted?) add to it ?
Have any one experienced anything like that here?
Those conditions are always risky I am aware of that, yet I have seen ton of happy flying in the fog and frost from Mavic pilots, so did not think it will just suddenly fall of the sky.
Think of the guy who did the proper Himalyas panorama with Mavic flying at some 6 or 7k in killer winds and temps (well he had a modified drone and full support from Dji on that project afaik)

Cheers!

Solution: Learn to fly VLOS!

 

[THE CYBORG]

I flew in fog once.
When I landed it was covered in condensation, wouldn't have fancied its chances if it was also freezing cold.
You live and learn.

 

[Triggus]

1st point, are you aware the out of sight is contary to CAA drone regulations? Be that because of distance, 1 mile?, or because of mist etc.
2nd point I would warm your batteries prior flying in the cold, carry them inside your clothing etc.
Sorry but I am inclined to think you were a bit cavalier. Freezing temperatures and fog do not sound like a good mix to me. Either on their own, maybe, but together hmmmmm but that is just my opinion. And yes I know the temptation of flying above fog or low cloud, as a ground hog I have seen some fogs etc. that I very much regretted not being able to get above, for the views they would have created.
As to the problems, a guess would be the icing reducing prop efficiency and or adding weight resulting in the MAx power warning, With regards to the motor error is it possible ice broke off and got into a motor?
Did you dry the drone once the ice melted?
I would be inclined to store it somewhere warm and DRY for a day or so.
Unfortunately I am not certain that the Mini 2 flight logs are available to us mere pilots anymore, if I am wrong someone please correct me.

thanks for the input! drone seems to be fine despite me being idiot, on the other hand I still see people posting footage here taken in quite harsh conditions without issues, this might have given me to much false confidence in Mini2 capabilities.

Whilst all of this is absolutely correct I wouldn’t worry about it. As per the Mini2 manual, flying in the fog isn’t advised as it messes with the sensors of the Mavic series, and quite often causes them to crash - so, OP isn’t likely to have a drone for long. Let’s just hope it doesn’t fall on anyone/thing when it crashes out of the sky. They won’t know about it though as they clearly won’t be able to see It from a mile away ?

Well me losing drone? quite possible, as the conditions I am using it could be quite risky, yet I choose where I fly carefully so I hope the actual risk of falling on some ones head or property is rather minimal (this shot above taken over water). And mile was the total flight, although technically speaking flying in fog is flying out of sight so point (hat in hand) taken!

Solution: Learn to fly VLOS!

As its already been pointed out flying without LOS is against rules, and I humbly take it. But what it has to do with the problem? I have seen it when it crashed, seeing it did not help with ice and fog......

You live and learn.

indeed, lesson learned!

 

[Kilrah]

Your props iced up.

Cold and dry is fine, humid and >5°C or so is fine, but -3°C fog is guaranteed to cause icing.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

on the other hand I still see people posting footage here taken in quite harsh conditions without issues, this might have given me to much false confidence

Let others risk their drones, their loss wont cost you anything. However you will be the one who 'loses money' if you lose your drone.

 

[eaglesurfing]

Welcome to the forum and you are not the first to fly in freezing fog.
If you do a search you will find more.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

Just realised you mention flying both a Mavic Mini and a Mini 2, I previously only noticed mention of the Mini 2, sorry. With which drone did you fly these flights?
If the Mavic Mini then the txt and DAT flight logs should be available to you on the phone. See the instructions on DJI Flight Log Viewer | Phantom Help
If you post the DAT log on here it contains motor data and someone may analyse it for you.
You could also post the txt log here or process it on the above website and post the link to the results here

 

[TDZHDTV]

If your flying from a hill I strongly suggest you read and understand this

The Drone and Model Aircraft Code | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Read the Drone and Model Aircraft Code to fly safely and legally. Find out what the rules are about flying unmanned aircraft in the UK.

register-drones.caa.co.uk

 

[zeusfl]

That was a nice picture.

 

[Triggus]

Welcome to the forum and you are not the first to fly in freezing fog.
If you do a search you will find more.

Thanks for the info, even if I am a bit discouraged at the moment from flying in freezing fog having nearly lost my drone, I am still keen to find out what went wrong and how people get around it, is there particular way of doing it or people are simply taking their chances. A friend of mine flew his Air2 in such conditions many times without any issues, sometimes he landed, replaced battery and get back to air straight away, Did I make a mistake by putting it in the bag for few minutes and let the ice melt then trying to get airborne with it not completely dried? Or maybe Air 2 is more capable in this regards, hmm

J=ust realised you mention flying both a Mavic Mini and a Mini 2, I previously only noticed mention of the Mini 2, sorry. With which drone did you fly these flights?
If the Mavic Mini then the txt and DAT flight logs should be available to you on the phone. See the instructions on DJI Flight Log Viewer | Phantom Help
If you post the DAT log on here it contains motor data and someone may analyse it for you.
You could also post the txt log here or process it on the above website and post the link to the results here

This was Mini2 I've only had access to inapp simple flight log, I know there was a file stored on the mini1 one, has it changed for mini2 ? No access at all ?

If your flying from a hill I strongly suggest you read and understand this

The Drone and Model Aircraft Code | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Read the Drone and Model Aircraft Code to fly safely and legally. Find out what the rules are about flying unmanned aircraft in the UK.

register-drones.caa.co.uk

I understand the point if you start from the hill and far enough from it over flat you might need to lower your altitude to be 120m over the surface there.
BTW. This could be really be tricky in the mountains flying over valleys with hundreds of meters of almost vertical drops

That was a nice picture.

Thanks!




--------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway while we covered the potential legal issues and manufacturer recommendations regarding this flight, I am still interested with getting to the bottom of the issue here, as the part when it happened was perfectly legal I had the drone within 10 meters from me, perfectly visible some 12-15 meters above ground when it was flying happily and a second later it wasn't anymore. And I believe the cumulated knowledge and experience of fine mavic pilots here can give me some clues or answers!

I sort of doubt it was the props icing that caused the problem as some one suggested earlier, it was actually flying just fine with some ice on it, it did not when it melted and when I managed to recover it there was no visible Ice on it.
This could have something to do with the fact I put it in the bag for a bit and then trying to fly without drying it first properly. So it looks like if the drone is warm and just getting the fog condensation and freezing before it gets any deeper this could work, When I let it melt and it sort of started refreezing internally it caused the motor/electronics/sensory issues ? Does it make sense ?

 

[Yogi053]

Just realised you mention flying both a Mavic Mini and a Mini 2, I previously only noticed mention of the Mini 2, sorry. With which drone did you fly these flights?
If the Mavic Mini then the txt and DAT flight logs should be available to you on the phone. See the instructions on DJI Flight Log Viewer | Phantom Help
If you post the DAT log on here it contains motor data and someone may analyse it for you.
You could also post the txt log here or process it on the above website and post the link to the results here

After update to1.2.2 phantom help cannot show flight logs. Website owner working on it to try and fix things.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

After update to1.2.2 phantom help cannot show flight logs. Website owner working on it to try and fix things.

Ahhh gazumped, was just about to post a comment on this and the on-the-phone DAT (if available? ) which is, I believe, now encrypted. Though, Boblui has just made an interesting comment in post #6 of mini 2 issue gimbal in rth when decrease the height which is a mini 2 thread

Did I make a mistake by putting it in the bag for few minutes and let the ice melt then......

With regards to putting the iced drone is ITS bag, whilst getting the ice off the drone etc. ASAP seems a good idea to me, putting it in ITS bag to do so probably means the inside of the bag is now 'damp' and that does not seem a good idea to me. I would have been more inclined to put it on a car seat or towel etc. in the car and let that take the melt and then dry/warm the drone in the blast from the car's heater. I would not put the drone camera-first into the heater's blast. I recollect drying a rained on Phantom this way.

I do not know if the log storage location has changed with the either the Mini 2 or the 1.2.2 app version but you could perhaps try connecting your phone to a computer via USB then use the computer to do a search for say "DJIFlight". Likewise a search based on the date and perhaps time stamp e.g. "20-12-13-01-25-42_FLY" or "20-12-13- _FLY" (the gap in the latter is intentional) might locate the DATs.
Whether either will be of any use is another matter.
I have just tried the "DJIF" search with a Windows pc and a Samsung S6 i.e. Android phone and it found the txt log files created by a pre 1.2.2 FLY app, I do not have 1.2.2 installed and given that it appears to mess with the logs I will not be.
For an iphone you might have to use iTunes.

 

[DanMan32]

Txt logs are still in their usual place with Fly 1.2.2 on Android. I see my 1/4 test flights there, which were just to start motors to generate a flight, no liftoff.

 

[hiflyer201]

Ice is insidious. The prop is an airfoil Many aircraft, even though they may have anti ice(heat) and ice protection(boots, alcohol) still have placards that read "flight into know icing prohibited" visible moisture and freezing temperatures equal ICE

 

[Phantomrain.org]

Picture below nothing really worth dying for
View attachment 121108

With Picture like these its no wonder you want to know what went wrong with your Mini 2.

So we have flown quite a few flights in the Freezing Wet cold and landed the Mini 2 on the freezing cold water.

We did not have any issues with the Props being frozen nor the Drone being Wet and I suspect that the Motor that went out is the issue and not the fog or the rain or the mist or the cold.

Now with that said we did notice that in freezing conditions the gimbal did start to chatter before take off after being almost frozen.

My focus would be on the motor and some thing that happened to your drone in your past flights.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mini 2 in the Freezing rain and Land On Water.

 

[787steve]

thanks for the input! drone seems to be fine despite me being idiot, on the other hand I still see people posting footage here taken in quite harsh conditions without issues, this might have given me to much false confidence in Mini2 capabilities.


Well me losing drone? quite possible, as the conditions I am using it could be quite risky, yet I choose where I fly carefully so I hope the actual risk of falling on some ones head or property is rather minimal (this shot above taken over water). And mile was the total flight, although technically speaking flying in fog is flying out of sight so point (hat in hand) taken!


As its already been pointed out flying without LOS is against rules, and I humbly take it. But what it has to do with the problem? I have seen it when it crashed, seeing it did not help with ice and fog.....indeed, lesson learned!

The thing is you, likely, wouldn't have "seen it when it crashed". If it had been in VLOS, it wouldn't have been in the fog in icing conditions, which likely caused the crash. As an airline pilot, we are required to put on engine anti ice whenever the temp is +10C or below and vis is below one mile. Those times are referred to as icing conditions.
Like others have said "live and learn". And simply as an aviator in general, please don't think that it is ok to knowingly break rules, because you think the risk to others minimal.

Imagine you are out in the wilderness with your family. A very nice fellow walks up and says, "Hello, I am a newbie drone pilot. Only a couple of hours, actually. More of a photographer than a drone operator, really. Anyway, the thing is I would like to fly in this general area. I'm not sure exactly where in this area, because I won't be able to actually see my drone with it's four whizzing propellers as it flies. But I, in my admittedly limited experience, think the likelihood of injuring any of you is "rather minimal." So, tell me, would you mind if I gave it a whirl?" I suspect you would object. Think about others more than you think about your own desires. It would be better for all of us in this hobby if everyone did so on every flight. That will surely result in some lost opportunities, and limit the fun, but we have all seen how one bad decision by one pilot can impact everyone in the arena.

 

[African wildlife]

Hi Triggus: I'm also based in the UK, albeit using using a drone overseas for professional work. I've mainly used a Phantom 4 Pro Plus, until very recently when we also got the excellent little Mini 2 - which, when used correctly, can produce good output. This is a really good forum, by the way, with lots of genuinely helpful/knowledgeable individuals from many walks of life.

I would echo the above cautious advice. But I'll come at it from a photography or filmmaking angle. On one occasion, we had to get "above the clouds" footage which was necessary for two films. We acquired the footage on our own huge area of land in South Africa, in a remote region, which we know extremely well in terms of slight chances of low flying helicopters of other aircraft being in the area (which is almost never). I sought advice beforehand (from the PhantomPilots forum) about the risks going up through a gap in the low cloud cover and any possible effects on the drone.

If you're a keen photographer, you'll appreciate just how much thought goes into composing a great image. Plus the need to get up well before dawn. Location, subject matter, and so on. Flying a drone, as a photography or filmmaking tool, should be no different. Yes, you can fly without too much careful thought - not least because the DI drones are very well built. But why be sloppy? You don't get great images consistently by accident - whereas you do get this success by design. Flying a drone should be no different, especially if it's for getting photographs from above. Apologies if my meaning isn't clear, but I'm guessing you'll understand what i'm struggling to communicate if you're a keen photographer. (I've only ever had one accident with gear in 40 years of work and that was when I was caught out on the Serengeti Plains by a freak gust of wind. And it was with a second camera body, so there was almost no disruption to the assignment. "Be prepared" really does pay off.)