Flyovers - are they legal?

[eEridani]

orionshooter​

Have you taken the Trust Test and have that certificate with you? If not, you are flying outside the lines already.
Also - as Vic mentioned, you also must be flying using a CBO - a club or similar. I fly by these rules:

https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/files/105.pdf

See item #4

Also - and my memory sucks and I've read far too many FAA documents these past few days - but there is an FAA letter of guidance or policy or rule to the effect that if flying around people in a small drone, no part that can cause lacerations can be exposed. In essence, a 100% enclosed propeller guard is required.

When I was training for my private pilots license, I found the FAA to be a total swamp of buried regulations. There wasn't really any one source for all of the rules that you need to follow. I'm finding it hasn't changed for drones.

Think of the FAA as a federal, state, county, city, and HOA all rolled into one organization. Then top that off with a few higher up appointees who can arbitrarily add more conditions to flight.

Trying to understand limits can be a nightmare.

For example, and why I am venting here: I just finished an email exchange over the night operations requirements - lighting - and came away with what I can use as written permission to strap a 3 mile visible laser on my drone and call it good. Except a real laser would be a bad idea for other reasons. But if you have a pin point of light that is visible 3 miles away you are good - there are no conditions on coverage or direction of visibility and a light pointed straight down is sufficient to meet the rule though completely useless for the stated purpose.

 

[eEridani]

There are no official NFZs in Denver. Outside stadium TFRs obviously. The only drone regulation about this is from Denver Parks. There is no flying from their property. Sidewalks and such are fine. And you can fly over park property.

The National Park service tries to get away with closing down airspace, but on the surface seems it too is limited to launch and land prohibitions.

Unmanned Aircraft in the National Parks (U.S. National Park Service)

Information about unmanned aircraft (or drone) use in national parks.

www.nps.gov

 

[eEridani]

Woot - found the no exposed parts bit:

Operations Over People General Overview

www.faa.gov

 

[Smooth Rhythm]

Welcome to the MavicPilots forum. Thanks for your query in an effort to understand the basis of “OOP” for recreational fliers, an often misunderstood area of our rules. Hopefully, a not too distant full implementation of 44809 will clarify most outstanding questions in this area. Enjoy, and happy Flying! ??

 

[eEridani]

I agree - the FAA makes the rules. I’m retired law enforcement and spent the last twenty three years as a criminal defense attorney so I understand the whole “ignorance of the law ” thing. That’s precisely why I’m asking questions here and doing the research. In an effort to not be “ignorant,” I reviewed the FAA rules including the link you provided:

49 USC 44809: Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft.

This section of the U.S. Code clearly defines and regulates airspace and restricts that navigable airspace to 400 feet for recreational users. However, it does not prohibit flying over groups. My question to this group was, where is this group rule located?

I’m also reading 14 CFR part 107 as it seems to provide some guidance on the question. However, 107 does not apply to recreational drone use so it is entirely inapplicable to our situation as recreational pilots.

As I said earlier, I don’t intend to argue - just looking for the facts as opposed to conjecture, alternative facts, unsupported legal theories or a “go ask the FAA” response.

Okay - you fly under the auspices of 49 USC 44809 or 14 CFR part 107. One or the other, never both.

14CFR107 rules do NOT apply to pilots flying under 49USC44809. However, in 49USC44809 it states you must fly under the guidance of a CBO. Choose one, and fly by their guidelines. In my CBO guidelines, flying over groups or unprotected people is to be avoided, aka strongly discouraged. 49USC44809 (a) 7 also states you must pass a test and carry that certificate with you when flying. There are other requirements. Check in with some of Vic Moss' posts. He is quite knowledgeable.

It's been my recent experience trying to understand 14CFR107 is not helpful to flying under 49USC44809. But I will eventually take the 14CFR107 license test... so I am cursed.

 

[GFields]

Greetings from Birmingham Alabama, welcome to the forum!
I think your question has been answered so no reason to add. Good luck and safe flying.

 

[Eaglesky77]

New Denver, CO pilot here with a question. While I understand operating a drone in certain state and city parks is illegal, is it still illegal to do so while the operator is not on the property while the drone flys over? In other words, does the city/state control the airspace over the property?

I’m in MS. I had issue requiring this final on regulation. I found that it is so common to hear several different answers because the only laws governing aircraft over property is old only addressing airline/ large rotary captors, etc. legislation is coming. For now , I believe settled in perhaps it was supreme crt or another high court. The ruling is that all local regulations re a uav flown over a personal residence is approved : saying that until legislation passes, all RUles are made by the FAA. AS OF LATE, the certain and confirmed final answer is - per faa- all property umover any private residence or property is not restricted AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT INTERFERE WITH THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY FROM
“ENJOYING THE USE OF THEIR PROPERTY”
I also have read from many sources the rule of thumb is to stay at least above 8-10 feet in situations. That just my understanding.

 

[vindibona1]

TECHNICALLY the FAA controls and has jurisdiction over all air space. But if you crash in the park or have to fight a citation that wasn’t within the letter of the law, or deal with Barney Fife you have to ask yourself if it’s worth it.

 

[Vic Moss]

The National Park service tries to get away with closing down airspace, but on the surface seems it too is limited to launch and land prohibitions.

Unmanned Aircraft in the National Parks (U.S. National Park Service)

Information about unmanned aircraft (or drone) use in national parks.

www.nps.gov

Actually nothing on the NPS UAA FAQ page shuts down airspace. They even say so in the Q&A.

While there are certainly some Rangers not familiar with the regulations as the should be, is it really fair for us to have them 100% knowledgeable about 100% of the regulations they have to enforce?

In the vast majority of LEO/UAS interactions, the drone operator is the most educated about laws. Or at least they should be.

 

[4006448]

Actually nothing on the NPS UAA FAQ page shuts down airspace. They even say so in the Q&A.

While there are certainly some Rangers not familiar with the regulations as the should be, is it really fair for us to have them 100% knowledgeable about 100% of the regulations they have to enforce?

In the vast majority of LEO/UAS interactions, the drone operator is the most educated about laws. Or at least they should be.

Being in law enforcement still (although retirement isn’t far away), if I’m not ? confident, I’ll take your details, make necessary inquiries and if applicable, breach/summons/ticket you later. Having said that, I appreciate some US application of law differs - got friends in law enforcement US, Canada and UK.

 

[Vic Moss]

Being in law enforcement still (although retirement isn’t far away), if I’m not ? confident, I’ll take your details, make necessary inquiries and if applicable, breach/summons/ticket you later. Having said that, I appreciate some US application of law differs - got friends in law enforcement US, Canada and UK.

Thank you for your service.

 

[Steel63]

Greetings from ? Florida ? and welcome to the forum

 

[Droniac]

TECHNICALLY the FAA controls and has jurisdiction over all air space. But if you crash in the park or have to fight a citation that wasn’t within the letter of the law, or deal with Barney Fife you have to ask yourself if it’s worth it.

Barney Fife. Hysterical. Love it. Flysafe have fun, Godspeed and watch out for Andy. Droniac.

 

[vindibona1]

... In the vast majority of LEO/UAS interactions, the drone operator is the most educated about laws. Or at least they should be.

This is true. And for our own best interest it is best to do the research before flying, print out and carry all the pertinent rules and regulations to prove our case in writing because you know there will be an encounter at some point.

And it isn't such a terrible idea to seek formal recognition or even permission of your right to fly in a given area ahead of time. On one of my projects I was to fly over a property where they had strict no-fly rules. I contacted the person in charge, stated my intent and got permission in writing. At one point I was challenged by one of their security guards. With the email folded in my back pocket, flying, he approached me. And as he did I reached back, only taking my hands off the sticks momentarily and handed him the email. He looked at it briefly, said "thank you very much" and went on his way.

We're going to be challenged about flying even though we stay within the rules and regs and even try to be as considerate as possible. It's just the nature of some folks to be skittish and over-reactive... some grossly so.

 

[mrjohnc1]

Welcome!

 

[eaglesurfing]

Welcome from South Central Florida and enjoy.

 

[SpitFire]

Welcome to the forum from Chicago the Windy City.

 

[pdipasquale]

One of our park districts here is Northern CA has a ban in place for drone operations. It specifically says that the policy prohibits the use of drones on or over any property managed by the district.

I would suggest seeing if you can find the policy in question and check the verbiage.

With that said, I think I'd avoid such areas as the rules of where you fly are usually put in place for a reason and flying through loopholes might not reflect well upon the UAS Community as a whole. But that's just my two cents worth.

What you say makes sense but if those rules aren't challenged then what are the limitations going to look like in the future. What next. The FAA controls the airspace. They won't take away many limitations they'll only add more.

 

[Wildcatgary]

One of our park districts here is Northern CA has a ban in place for drone operations. It specifically says that the policy prohibits the use of drones on or over any property managed by the district.

I would suggest seeing if you can find the policy in question and check the verbiage.

With that said, I think I'd avoid such areas as the rules of where you fly are usually put in place for a reason and flying through loopholes might not reflect well upon the UAS Community as a whole. But that's just my two cents worth.

Do these restrictions include hot air ballons? LOL. Or kites? LOL.

 

[ckoerner]

Moreover, what constitutes a “group?” Is it 2 or 3 or 100 or somewhere in between? Do they have to be interacting as a group (say on a picnic) or do 30 people all well dispersed over 6 acres of a park constitute a group? Not trying to be argumentative - just looking for the exact legal authority supporting your position.

I’ve read this thread a few times and I’m still not sure if you ever got a plain language answer to your question. One I’m interested in too! Could some explain it like I’m five years old? If flying recreationally and if flying commercially please.