Freewell polarized ND filters and vinetting

[Dogpilot]

Everybody has an opinion. I have been doing photography as an adjunct to my profession as a geologist for decades now. I do extensive photography from actual aircraft. Drones are cool for my work in certain areas, especially if the transit is too long to justify a flight to photographs certain elements. My aircraft costs several hundred an hour to operate, so the drone fills the gap. I have no opinion on the ND filters, since I never do video. I do use polarizers a lot, unless it is too dim outside that the 1 stop the polarizers lowers my shutter speed by, too much and I get resulting smear.

Polarizers are essential for haze reduction. Haze is generally reflected light in the upper blue spectrum. When it is reflected it picks up a polarization, which you can use your polarizer to cut off some of it (you have to rotate it to see best effect for that direction). When you are looking down the effect of haze is increased, since generally, the sun is above us. You can see this by just looking around in a circle and seeing one quadrant is always hazier than the others. This is the reflected polarized blue light.

I even have a Mavic 2 Pro that I modified for full spectrum. I have a pile of differing wavelength pass filters I use on it, depending on what I am looking for. I have the same in my DSLR's, which I have two modified for the same work from the aircraft.

So, my conclusion, your milage may vary, is that at least the polarizer is an essential filter when shooting from the air and in different directions. I do like the enhancement of colors and increased contrast as well.

I do take a photo or two for esthetics as well. Notice the haze is much reduced and the colors are enhanced with more pleasing contrast. This is from an aircraft, not a drone.

 

[redserv]

Everybody has an opinion. I have been doing photography as an adjunct to my profession as a geologist for decades now. I do extensive photography from actual aircraft. Drones are cool for my work in certain areas, especially if the transit is too long to justify a flight to photographs certain elements. My aircraft costs several hundred an hour to operate, so the drone fills the gap. I have no opinion on the ND filters, since I never do video. I do use polarizers a lot, unless it is too dim outside that the 1 stop the polarizers lowers my shutter speed by, too much and I get resulting smear.

Polarizers are essential for haze reduction. Haze is generally reflected light in the upper blue spectrum. When it is reflected it picks up a polarization, which you can use your polarizer to cut off some of it (you have to rotate it to see best effect for that direction). When you are looking down the effect of haze is increased, since generally, the sun is above us. You can see this by just looking around in a circle and seeing one quadrant is always hazier than the others. This is the reflected polarized blue light.

I even have a Mavic 2 Pro that I modified for full spectrum. I have a pile of differing wavelength pass filters I use on it, depending on what I am looking for. I have the same in my DSLR's, which I have two modified for the same work from the aircraft.

So, my conclusion, your milage may vary, is that at least the polarizer is an essential filter when shooting from the air and in different directions. I do like the enhancement of colors and increased contrast as well.

I do take a photo or two for esthetics as well. Notice the haze is much reduced and the colors are enhanced with more pleasing contrast. This is from an aircraft, not a drone.
View attachment 161336

Thank you for sharing. There are definitely alot of opinions on this whether we need NDPL when taking photos. I am learning so much on this topic. Thank you once again.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Everybody has an opinion. I have been doing photography as an adjunct to my profession as a geologist for decades now. I do extensive photography from actual aircraft. Drones are cool for my work in certain areas, especially if the transit is too long to justify a flight to photographs certain elements. My aircraft costs several hundred an hour to operate, so the drone fills the gap. I have no opinion on the ND filters, since I never do video. I do use polarizers a lot, unless it is too dim outside that the 1 stop the polarizers lowers my shutter speed by, too much and I get resulting smear.

Polarizers are essential for haze reduction. Haze is generally reflected light in the upper blue spectrum. When it is reflected it picks up a polarization, which you can use your polarizer to cut off some of it (you have to rotate it to see best effect for that direction). When you are looking down the effect of haze is increased, since generally, the sun is above us. You can see this by just looking around in a circle and seeing one quadrant is always hazier than the others. This is the reflected polarized blue light.

I even have a Mavic 2 Pro that I modified for full spectrum. I have a pile of differing wavelength pass filters I use on it, depending on what I am looking for. I have the same in my DSLR's, which I have two modified for the same work from the aircraft.

So, my conclusion, your milage may vary, is that at least the polarizer is an essential filter when shooting from the air and in different directions. I do like the enhancement of colors and increased contrast as well.

I do take a photo or two for esthetics as well. Notice the haze is much reduced and the colors are enhanced with more pleasing contrast. This is from an aircraft, not a drone.
View attachment 161336

Shooting stills from a manned aircraft, where you have full live control over the PL is far different than using a PL in a fixed position during a drone flight, where the direction of flight relative to the sun is constantly changing, and the PL needs to be adjusted but can't be, without landing and starting all over. Trying to shoot both video and stills in the same flight using PL's is a definite recipe for disaster.

 

[Dogpilot]

Not trying to be mean here, but you most likely have never shot stills from an aircraft. First off you're at fairly low altitude. You have to fly cross controlled to lift the wing out of the shot. You're wizzing by in excess of 150 mph ground speed, any slower, you have little energy to get out of situations and being cross controlled, risk a spin if you go to slow. To actually shoot, I fly with my knees. Been doing this for a long time, in the Navy, as a commissioned offer in NOAA and civil flying. So no, I set up for a quadrant do my shots. You're normally looking for the light to come by in a fairly consistent direction. So you pick a line and give yourself plenty of time to get everything in control. So no, I do not have any spare limbs or time to adjust the polarizer. If I am monkeying with the camera and polarizer, I am moving away from my target at two to three miles a minute.

Drone is much easier, you can stop. You still pick a quadrant and adjust the polarizer for that quadrant.

You seem not to like filters, so I can see why you would not want to use them. So you most likely should not. Every photographer has a different slant on how he, she or it wants their pics to come out based upon the vision in their head. The OP is using a ND polarizer. Now that is a combo I would not tend to use. A polarizer is in itself a ND filter, reducing light by .7 to 1.5 stops depending on the quality (Hoya makes the fastest polarizers).

 

[GadgetGuy]

Not trying to be mean here, but you most likely have never shot stills from an aircraft. First off you're at fairly low altitude. You have to fly cross controlled to lift the wing out of the shot. You're wizzing by in excess of 150 mph ground speed, any slower, you have little energy to get out of situations and being cross controlled, risk a spin if you go to slow. To actually shoot, I fly with my knees. Been doing this for a long time, in the Navy, as a commissioned offer in NOAA and civil flying. So no, I set up for a quadrant do my shots. You're normally looking for the light to come by in a fairly consistent direction. So you pick a line and give yourself plenty of time to get everything in control. So no, I do not have any spare limbs or time to adjust the polarizer. If I am monkeying with the camera and polarizer, I am moving away from my target at two to three miles a minute.

Drone is much easier, you can stop. You still pick a quadrant and adjust the polarizer for that quadrant.

You seem not to like filters, so I can see why you would not want to use them. So you most likely should not. Every photographer has a different slant on how he, she or it wants their pics to come out based upon the vision in their head. The OP is using a ND polarizer. Now that is a combo I would not tend to use. A polarizer is in itself a ND filter, reducing light by .7 to 1.5 stops depending on the quality (Hoya makes the fastest polarizers).

Lots of irrelevant information for the OP.

I have, in fact, shot stills from manned aircraft. You keep making my point. You can't compare shooting stills from a manned aircraft, where you have simultaneous, physical control over all aspects of the camera, and shooting stills remotely from a drone, with no control over any of your filters, without landing to change them.

The OP is using PLND filters for both stills and video and wondering why he is having issues. He shouldn't be using them at all because he doesn't understand their purpose, and none of those purposes apply in his case. He isn't a commercial cinematographer requiring cinematic blur for video, and he doesn't need a PL nor an ND filter for his stills for the uses he described.

Filters for drone stills have very limited uses, and the only filter that makes sense for both video and stills on a drone is a GND filter to reduced the dynamic range of the scene, which does not require any adjustment during flight because the gimbal keeps the horizon level at all times.

 

[JoelP]

You are welcome. By the way, there are also situations you need ND, or PL ND filters when shooting aerial images. I will demonstrate what I mean with one example here.

View attachment 161315

The image above was shot for a client in a cold winter morning. There are three issues I need to resolve, when planning this shot.

1) The clouds in the sky and the snow on the ground created lots of light reflection and refractions on the river surface and leaves of the trees. I need to find a way to get rid of that.

2) The sky is overly bright compared to the waterfall hiding in the shadow. I need a way to balance the light between sky and waterfall, and make the sky "pop".

3) I need a slower shutter speed to create the "silky smooth" effect for the waterfall. A maximum shutter speed of 1/15 sec is needed to create such effect. 1-2 sec would be ideal.

PL filter can resolve issue 1) and 2).

ND filter can resolve issue 3). If you don't have ND filter, PL filter also helps to certain degree, since it cuts down the light input by 1.5-2 stops.

ND-PL filter resolves all the issues above. This is the ideal filter I need to achieve the final result.

Because I did not have ND-PL filter at the moment of the shot, I used PL filter instead. The image was shot at 1/15 sec and F/11. You will notice certain amount of "silky smooth" effect for the waterfall, but not particular strong. If I had ND-PL filter at that moment of time, I could have shot the image with 1-2 sec shutter speed, and achieve even better final result.

My comment on regretting purchasing my polarizing filters was intended to apply to moving video, but for stills it is another matter. Just like for my handheld digital camera a polarizing filter may greatly enhance a still image if used correctly.

 

[GadgetGuy]

My comment on regretting purchasing my polarizing filters was intended to apply to moving video, but for stills it is another matter. Just like for my handheld digital camera a policing filter may greatly enhance a still image if used correctly.

The problem is that it is impossible to use a polarizing filter correctly on a drone even for stills, unless you keep landing to adjust the degree of polarization, based upon what you can see on the FPV, and the orientation of the lens relative to the sun, based upon the still image you wish to compose. Unless you only want a single photograph from each of your your drone flights, the polarizer for every other photograph will at best be a useless ND filter.

 

[redserv]

Ok guys... I need to repopen this topic. I went out again yesterday to take some photos WITHOUT ndpl filters. As you could see in the attached photo I am still getting vinetting on the photo. Wth!! i am not sure whats the issue. See attached screenshot with info on photo. By the way this photo is a sample from AEB shot.But also happens with single photos.

 

[redserv]

Ok guys... I need to repopen this topic. I went out again yesterday to take some photos WITHOUT ndpl filters. As you could see in the attached photo I am still getting vinetting on the photo. Wth!! i am not sure whats the issue. See attached screenshot with info on photo. By the way this photo is a sample from AEB shot.But also happens with single photos.View attachment 161720

guys I really need some help with this problem. Can you please help me?

 

[Deleted member 162835]

guys I really need some help with this problem. Can you please help me?

This looks 100% normal to me until you correct for lens distortion. DJI corrects for lens distortion in body with jpegs and the raws you have to manually correct.

 

[redserv]

This looks 100% normal to me until you correct for lens distortion. I capture both jpeg and raw. DJI corrects for lens distortion in body with jpegs and the raws you have to manually correct.

So are you saying that vinetting while shooting on the M3 is normal while shooting RAW photos??

 

[Deleted member 162835]

So are you saying that vinetting while shooting on the M3 is normal while shooting RAW photos??

Yes.

 

[redserv]

Yes.

Thank you. I am very much surprised no one told me this before on this thread. I thought that the NDPL Filters was the issue, although I am not using them for photos anymore

 

[Deleted member 162835]

Thank you. I am very much surprised no one told me this before on this thread. I thought that the NDPL Filters was the issue, although I am not using them for photos anymore

Yeah you're good. Next time you go out set it to capture both raw and jpeg and you'll see the editing DJI does for jpegs. Night and day difference.

I should have said something at post 16. If that was raw also, likely not an issue with the filter at all.

 

[redserv]

Yeah you're good. Next time you go out set it to capture both raw and jpeg and you'll see the editing DJI does for jpegs. Night and day difference.

I should have said something at post 16. If that was raw also, likely not an issue with the filter at all.

Thank you very much for pointing this out to me. I should have probably stated that I shot the photos in RAW. Thanks again, much appreciated

 

[akdrone]

Thank you. I am very much surprised no one told me this before on this thread. I thought that the NDPL Filters was the issue, although I am not using them for photos anymore

Whaaat??? I have NEVER seen vignetting like that when shooting with my M3Pro. I do not agree that it is normal. Maybe I've never been shooting at f11 or where ever that occurs but I would like to hear from others that have experienced that and will test it today myself and report back. Since everyone has their opinion on ND and Pol filters...here's mine.
ND filters are pretty much on my camera all the time. They are meaningless if you are flying at 200 feet above the ground because their purpose on a drone is almost entirely to provide a 2x shutter speed compared to the fps ie shutter speed of 120 when shooting 4k/60. I leave an appropriate ND filter on that will allow me to get to that 120 simply cause I never know when I may want to drop down close and fly along near the ground. With a variable aperture drone like the Mav3 there is a lot of leeway. With a Mini 3 Pro or other fixed aperture you have to be more careful in what you select as you can't adjust the aperture. I maintain ISO 100 all the time unless I can't and by then I have no ND filter on. Regarding PL or CPL (circular polarizing) filters. They are of very limited use when shooting the wide angle lens if you are shooting sky because some sky will be dark and other areas light. PL filters work on light that is entering the camera at an angle. They darken the sky very much from light coming at 90 to the camera and not at all for light coming directly in front or behind the camera. If you use the 70 or 120 (?) tele lenses you will have less of a problem with that but will still want to observe the sky and dark shifts that may appear. In all cases you will have to look through the CPL filter an adjust it manually before going up and have a portion of the sky in mind for stills. Panning in video simply doesn't work as the sky will change darkness. One area where they work well is over water. There, the area that might not be polarized as compared to an area that IS polarized doesn't jump out at the viewer like an unnatural sky so if I play on shooting water I'll put on a CPL every time....although that's a lie because if you have an overcast sky with light coming from everywhere a PL won't do jack. I find both ND and CPL filters to be very useful when you understand how they work and when they are useful.

 

[Bob in Savannah]

Whaaat??? I have NEVER seen vignetting like that when shooting with my M3Pro. I do not agree that it is normal. Maybe I've never been shooting at f11 or where ever that occurs but I would like to hear from others that have experienced that and will test it today myself and report back. Since everyone has their opinion on ND and Pol filters...here's mine.
ND filters are pretty much on my camera all the time. They are meaningless if you are flying at 200 feet above the ground because their purpose on a drone is almost entirely to provide a 2x shutter speed compared to the fps ie shutter speed of 120 when shooting 4k/60. I leave an appropriate ND filter on that will allow me to get to that 120 simply cause I never know when I may want to drop down close and fly along near the ground. With a variable aperture drone like the Mav3 there is a lot of leeway. With a Mini 3 Pro or other fixed aperture you have to be more careful in what you select as you can't adjust the aperture. I maintain ISO 100 all the time unless I can't and by then I have no ND filter on. Regarding PL or CPL (circular polarizing) filters. They are of very limited use when shooting the wide angle lens if you are shooting sky because some sky will be dark and other areas light. PL filters work on light that is entering the camera at an angle. They darken the sky very much from light coming at 90 to the camera and not at all for light coming directly in front or behind the camera. If you use the 70 or 120 (?) tele lenses you will have less of a problem with that but will still want to observe the sky and dark shifts that may appear. In all cases you will have to look through the CPL filter an adjust it manually before going up and have a portion of the sky in mind for stills. Panning in video simply doesn't work as the sky will change darkness. One area where they work well is over water. There, the area that might not be polarized as compared to an area that IS polarized doesn't jump out at the viewer like an unnatural sky so if I play on shooting water I'll put on a CPL every time....although that's a lie because if you have an overcast sky with light coming from everywhere a PL won't do jack. I find both ND and CPL filters to be very useful when you understand how they work and when they are useful.

I must admit, this is quite hard to absorb with this huge block of text.

But, saying that, I have to comment that I feel like I there's a lot to learn here with what you said. More than I know. I thank you for this information but would request a more welcoming format. lol.

There is so much to learn here. Thank you, again. +1

 

[akdrone]

I must admit, this is quite hard to absorb with this huge block of text.

But, saying that, I have to comment that I feel like I there's a lot to learn here with what you said. More than I know. I thank you for this information but would request a more welcoming format. lol.

There is so much to learn here. Thank you, again. +1

Welcome. It took me almost three weeks to learn everything there is to know about Photography, Videography and Drones. Whew! Glad THAT's over >

 

[BaldyBoyBilly]

Welcome. It took me almost three weeks to learn everything there is to know about Photography, Videography and Drones. Whew! Glad THAT's over >

Um. Ha ….. Ha?

 

[GadgetGuy]

Welcome. It took me almost three weeks to learn everything there is to know about Photography, Videography and Drones. Whew! Glad THAT's over >

That's why everyone with a camera phone is now a professional photographer! HAH!