Hello.........and Goodbye.

[DARKSeifer]

I’m sorry, but that’s simply not true. I have a Mini and it’s easy with a little forethought (and surprisingly few real restrictions) to remain completely within the rules.

The moment you go 121m, 501m or you lose VLOS (wich with the Mini/Mini2, due to it's size and colour is super easy past 100m-150m distance) the entire operation is illegal, so please, keep thinking you are flying within the rules the entire time.

You (and everyone) fly mostly within the rules, but not 100% all the time. It's like motorbike riders that claim on how fast you go when they see you pass by and then, when you ride with them, you have to leave them go away because they ride like there's no tomorrow.... Hypocrisy... everywhere, everyday.

 

[maelstrom]

The moment you go 121m, 501m or you lose VLOS (wich with the Mini/Mini2 due to it's size and colour is super easy past 100m-150m distance) the entire operation is illegal

But by not doing any of those things, I remain legal. You’re correct that VLOS is the biggest problem for the Mini. However, if the things I want to video/photograph would put me beyond VLOS, I just take-off closer to them. Trust me, it’s not that difficult to remain legal.

 

[DARKSeifer]

Well, I can only speak of EU regulations, and the trajectory is definitely going towards freeing up airspace ....but only in the sub 250 category. Drones over that weight are going to face more and more restrictions, the good thing is, drones in that category are only going to get better. Personally, I wouldn't be so pessimistic.

I'd say that's applies to all sub 900g drones that can fly in A1 open category, not only the sub 250g ones.

Even on the 900g to 4Kg A2 open category rules are not that hard.

The main problem is that drones are a new thing, rules are also new and when you go out to fly a drone you are the one only one around that know the rules, everyone else, including most policemen (unless the specific drone units) don't have a clue, so the last thing you want is being the center of attention.

At least till drones are a more common thing, which doesn't seem to happen anytime soon, as it's still a marginal hobby/profession. People buy a drone, see that they have to drive 50Km to fly it because cities are nearly allways under controlled airspace, sell it and go to other hobbies.

 

[Drone Views Media]

I'd say that's applies to all sub 900g drones that can fly in A1 open category, not only the sub 250g ones.

Even on the 900g to 4Kg A2 open category rules are not that hard.

The main problem is that drones are a new thing, rules are also new and when you go out to fly a drone you are the one only one around that know the rules, everyone else, including most policemen (unless the specific drone units) don't have a clue, so the last thing you want is being the center of attention.

At least till drones are a more common thing, which doesn't seem to happen anytime soon, as it's still a marginal hobby/profession.

The problem is, no sooner had the ink dried on those rules, they are talking about the need to further regulate drones over 250g. It's no coincidence that drone manufacturers are now putting a great deal of investment in this area

 

[DARKSeifer]

The problem is, no sooner had the ink dried on those rules, they are talking about the need to further regulate drones over 250g. It's no coincidence that drone manufacturers are now putting a great deal of investment in this area

Drones will be able to fly everywhere in the future, even in cities and under controlled airspace (specially 250g ones)... but only after eID has been implemented and the sense of remote controlled impunity goes away.

But we are lots of years away from that to be true. 2023 to eID being fully implemented in the states, EU will just copy&paste... we are talking about 2030 easily.

Hopefully 250g drones will just be considered as any other hand held camera.

 

[vindibona1]

I’m sorry, but that’s simply not true. I have a Mini and it’s easy with a little forethought (and surprisingly few real restrictions) to remain completely within the rules.

I think sometimes we get into splitting hairs about staying "within the rules" . There are technical violations and deliberate violations and then there are gross violations. None of them are technically "legal" or within the "rules". Are they designed for us to be strict? Technical violation: You fly your drone 400 feet (120m) out during the day against a bright gray sky, in clear view... and then you lose it in the sky. You are in technical violation of VLOS. Or you can see your drone, and then it moves to where you have trees obstructing your view of your drone. Deliberate violation: You're on the Bonneville Salt flats and you want to chase some sail cars that have now sailed a mile away from you. You continue to chase the cars for 3 miles. No VO. However, there are no people or cars or private property that you're flying over. Nothing but you, the salt flats and couple sail cars way out there. Gross violation: You decide it would be cool to fly over the FIFA championship matches at your local stadium.

All of the above basic rules are pretty much the same everywhere. Gross violations aside, it is really practical, or even possible to stay "within all of the rules" 100 % of the time?

 

[Zbip57]

Gross violations aside, is it really practical, or even possible to stay "within all of the rules" 100 % of the time?

The rules keep changing all the time, becoming ever more complicated. Eventually (almost certainly already) there will be people who just ignore these ridiculous rules.

For example, in the rush to introduce new drone rules here in Canada, one of the initial requirements was,

"The owner of a model aircraft must not operate or permit a person to operate the aircraft unless the name, address and telephone number of the owner are clearly made visible on the aircraft."

I've always had a sticker with my cellphone number on all my radio controlled toys. If I ever lost a plane, hopefully a finder would contact me. We could safely negotiate a return by telephone. But I'm certainly never going to put my name and address on an invitation for a potentially irate redneck to come hunt me down in my home.

So, I freely confess, I was never 100% in compliance with that particularly nonsensical regulation. Thankfully that requirement was subsequently rescinded.

I'm amazed that the FAA thinks they can now cram just such a requirement down the throats of freedom loving Americans with their proposed remote ID regulations.

 

[DavidT_ NZ]

@The Fat Controller thank you, I will do. Have not heard of them.

I really would like to participate but the rub is that I run my own business and have two small kids. Travelling great distances just to use my drone isn't really optional. I don't have the time. The truth is that the rules have eliminated so many potential experiences for me on my doorstep. Realistically how many places are there within reasonable travelling distance that are beyond 50m (soon to be 150m) of anyone and not recreational areas?
Woodland....no
Beach.....no
Parks and playing fields......no

Look, it's easy to have a certain perspective like most here who already have the equipment and the years behind them flying. I am asking from the perspective of a new hobbyist who is trying to decide whether to spend a grand and a half for these restrictions. It's not as easy to have such a shiny outlook on the situation.

Your points are all valid to you, individually, but my first question would be “are you permitted to fly a drone above your own home, within the bounds of your property?” (assuming that it is a house and not an apartment). I regularly put my Air 2 up above my home to film 360 degree panoramas and especially sunset footage and often enjoy capturing the trees, flowers and scenic views just from the elevated perspective. I also periodically use my drone to inspect my roof and gutters (for leaves and cleaning). Then when I do travel away, the drone is so compact that it joins my other camera gear so that it is available, if needed (and permitted ?). I think that you would be pleasantly surprised how often you did get to fly your drone, even if while you are learning, you are limited to flying above your own home for a while. But you would find even that to be hugely rewarding. It is the combination of great visuals plus the pure brilliance of controlling a camera in flight that will make you wish you had bought the drone yesterday! You sound keen. My advice would be to just do it. And share the fun and the skills and the technology with the family. Then drop another note on this forum ……. The regulators will never be able to shut us all down. (But DJI might ……) We owe it to Orville & Wilbur! ??????

 

[DARKSeifer]

You should try to comply with everything drone/pilot related, as these are the things you'll get a ticket for... No one can tell from the ground if you lost line of sight of the drone for a second or if you went a bit beyond 500 meters distance... but every cop will see that there's no number on the drone or you don't have the certifications to fly it after you land it.

To start with, in my country you need:

• Ignifugous metal badge with all your data, telephone, serial number, operator ID, etc attached to every drone and controller (yep, even the mini). ✓
• Insurance for your drone, even the 250g ones. ✓
• Drone operator certificate. ✓
• A1/A3, A2, or STS pilot certificates for drones bigger than 250g (I obtained all of them despite at the beginning I only wanted to fly sub 250g). ✓

All the people that get fined in my country, (apart from the ones that fly in controlled airspace or similar reckless behavior), is because they don't comply with any of the 4 things above.

People tend to overthink about rules, but as long as you have the paperwork done and stay out of controlled airspace and away from people, it's pretty unlikely to have any problem. Drones are a new thing and get tons of undesired attention, some people will be nice, some will call the cops, some will be "karens"... but it won't escalate unless you are taking pictures of the fountain next to the World Trade Center XDD

No matter what the general "news" says, flying drones is probably one of the safest hobbies around.

 

[baddog]

Well after a grand total of five posts in a single thread, three days after joining and not having owned a single drone it seems my flying days are over ?.

I created this thread purely just to give a perspective from someone who is completely new and wanting to get involved in drone flight and photography. Let me tell you, it is a very depressing view right now. Maybe the future is brighter for those more established in the hobby or who live in Arizona possibly but not for me or I guess most people new to this.

After wanting to get into drones for a long time I decided now was the time to look into it sincerely and what I have been met with the last few days is a pretty bleak outlook regarding this hobby. Esentially it seems the curtain is beginning to come down pretty hard.

I watched a ton of YouTube videos, pretty much every single one of them starting with incredible shots from all over, rotating around buildings, flying over harbours and beaches. Beautiful images, enticing the viewer into this wonderful world.


None of which is now possible.

I can't get nice family shots on the beach. I can't fly over my local lake. I can't fly safely around the beautiful historic town I live in. Recreational areas are no longer possible. I never wanted to be THAT guy who broke the rules and knew if I ever took up the hobby I would abide by the rules and fly as safely as I possibly could. More importantly and some what ironically I also understand the need for such structure. There is I assume few here that would disagree we need rules in place for safety and common sense. However the fun has been sucked out of the hobby for me with such regulations. Yes I know I could grab a mini 2 and have some fun but as a professional photographer that drone was never going to be enough for me. Throw in the fact that my potential £1200 Air 2S would be void come Jan 2023 it lead me to a sour conclusion.

It seems I missed the boat and the carefree days of flying with only respectable rules are over. It's only going to become more Draconian and for me and many other out there (those that have done their research at least) thinking about this hobby it seems like it would be nothing other than a waste of time and money right now. Hopefully in a couple of years things may have ironed themselves out more, maybe there will be a 249g mini 4 with the specs of a 2s. But right now it feels like the technology is going at such a rapid pace that the authorities are struggling to catch up and in doing so are throwing out pretty severe measures just to keep some sort or order. There are very few people who actually want drones flying around.

I'm sorry for the waffle but it comes from a place of immense disappointment. I'm too late to the party, I know that and I appreciate the thread has little value other than to give an idea of the harsh reality facing new flyers. There is currently very little to entice people toward the hobby.

Thank you very much for the advice I have been given here and I'm sure you pilots will adapt, adjust and have many more years of happy flying ahead of you and hopefully the authorities will also adapt and make it more accessible for others to join in the fun.

Take care

Rich

Well, one thing that is confusing about your post is... You keep referencing this drone passion of yours as re recreational but then you mention that you are a professional photographer. So in the US flying under part 107, that would pretty much, make you a commercial drone pilot. You might try and tell the FAA or a public safety official that you were only flying recreationaly, they are not going to accept that. Any grey areas concerning FAA regulations, the FAA is gonna win the argument everytime.

But you mentioned £1200, so that makes me assume you are flying outside of the US FAA, part 107 regs jurisdiction. So, most of this reply would be a moot point.

Also, under part 107, it does not matter what the weight is of the drone and how light it is, if you are flying commercial jobs with it it has to be registered.

Plus, 2023 is still far away, when concerning the average life span of a promercial type drone. So by the time remote ID goes into effect you will either be purchasing a new drone at that point, which will already be compliant or your drone will be popular enough, because it has lasted almost 2 years, that it is in the best interest of the manufacturer to make a remote ID module for it or upgradable to remote ID by a firmware update.

 

[7869hodgy]

To be fair buying a MA2S as your first drone was possibly a mistake, one many people make.

I bought a Mini2 first, got used to flying, took my A2 C of C and then bought a MA2S which I use for “middle of nowhere” flights once I understood the “rules”

Currently you can fly the Mini 2 from your garden, obviously respecting your neighbours (I.e I only fly from the garden in the winter). I take the Mini 2 everywhere with me.

if you haven’t take the A2 C of C as it makes you aware of what you can and can’t do, where you can and can’t do it, and also the protocols to follow in the event of an issue.

I have found that timing when you fly makes a difference. If you’re at a beach, do it early before most people turn up so as not to offend by filming when kids are about/people are scantily clad.

However, most people I came across weren’t bothered and were more often interested in what I was doing.

Get a Mini 2.

 

[Lauee]

Well after a grand total of five posts in a single thread, three days after joining and not having owned a single drone it seems my flying days are over ?.

I created this thread purely just to give a perspective from someone who is completely new and wanting to get involved in drone flight and photography. Let me tell you, it is a very depressing view right now. Maybe the future is brighter for those more established in the hobby or who live in Arizona possibly but not for me or I guess most people new to this.

After wanting to get into drones for a long time I decided now was the time to look into it sincerely and what I have been met with the last few days is a pretty bleak outlook regarding this hobby. Esentially it seems the curtain is beginning to come down pretty hard.

I watched a ton of YouTube videos, pretty much every single one of them starting with incredible shots from all over, rotating around buildings, flying over harbours and beaches. Beautiful images, enticing the viewer into this wonderful world.


None of which is now possible.

I can't get nice family shots on the beach. I can't fly over my local lake. I can't fly safely around the beautiful historic town I live in. Recreational areas are no longer possible. I never wanted to be THAT guy who broke the rules and knew if I ever took up the hobby I would abide by the rules and fly as safely as I possibly could. More importantly and some what ironically I also understand the need for such structure. There is I assume few here that would disagree we need rules in place for safety and common sense. However the fun has been sucked out of the hobby for me with such regulations. Yes I know I could grab a mini 2 and have some fun but as a professional photographer that drone was never going to be enough for me. Throw in the fact that my potential £1200 Air 2S would be void come Jan 2023 it lead me to a sour conclusion.

It seems I missed the boat and the carefree days of flying with only respectable rules are over. It's only going to become more Draconian and for me and many other out there (those that have done their research at least) thinking about this hobby it seems like it would be nothing other than a waste of time and money right now. Hopefully in a couple of years things may have ironed themselves out more, maybe there will be a 249g mini 4 with the specs of a 2s. But right now it feels like the technology is going at such a rapid pace that the authorities are struggling to catch up and in doing so are throwing out pretty severe measures just to keep some sort or order. There are very few people who actually want drones flying around.

I'm sorry for the waffle but it comes from a place of immense disappointment. I'm too late to the party, I know that and I appreciate the thread has little value other than to give an idea of the harsh reality facing new flyers. There is currently very little to entice people toward the hobby.

Thank you very much for the advice I have been given here and I'm sure you pilots will adapt, adjust and have many more years of happy flying ahead of you and hopefully the authorities will also adapt and make it more accessible for others to join in the fun.

Take care

Rich

Hi legend, I’m also in the uk (Liverpool) and there aren’t that many places that you can’t fly if you’re sensible about it. Just 2 weeks ago I was down in Dorset and took some great photos/ footage from Durdle door. Sure there were plenty of people at the beach but I took off from a cliff top away from the crowds and flew out across the sea and came the back way to take my footage. So long as you’re not being a complete *** with your drone you will find that no one will say anything to you and actually if someone does come up to you it will be mainly out of curiosity. Last week I was in wales taking footage of a castle and a family were standing nearby and they were fascinated with the drone taking off. Once above the castle I went over and showed the family what I could see on my phone and they were amazed. If you bought your drone now you could have 2 years of flying under your belt and by the time the new rules come in there will be another drone available for us to continue our hobby with.

 

[Drone Views Media]

You should try to comply with everything drone/pilot related, as these are the things you'll get a ticket for... No one can tell from the ground if you lost line of sight of the drone for a second or if you went a bit beyond 500 meters distance... but every cop will see that there's no number on the drone or you don't have the certifications to fly it after you land it.

To start with, in my country you need:

• Ignifugous metal badge with all your data, telephone, serial number, operator ID, etc attached to every drone and controller (yep, even the mini). ✓
• Insurance for your drone, even the 250g ones. ✓
• Drone operator certificate. ✓
• A1/A3, A2, or STS pilot certificates for drones bigger than 250g (I obtained all of them despite at the beginning I only wanted to fly sub 250g). ✓

All the people that get fined in my country, (apart from the ones that fly in controlled airspace or similar reckless behavior), is because they don't comply with any of the 4 things above.

People tend to overthink about rules, but as long as you have the paperwork done and stay out of controlled airspace and away from people, it's pretty unlikely to have any problem. Drones are a new thing and get tons of undesired attention, some people will be nice, some will call the cops, some will be "karens"... but it won't escalate unless you are taking pictures of the fountain next to the World Trade Center XDD

No matter what the general "news" says, flying drones is probably one of the safest hobbies around.

Recreational drone pilots can fly in controlled airspace here in Ireland, but of course, it's hight limited

 

[Badgersurfer]

I am surprised at what you say as I am also a photographer having a M2P and live in the same location as yourself albeit 3 miles away. I took a A2CofC also part of DroneSAR and the restrictions you mention have always been there I .e. nature reserve (lakes & gravel pits), power station, airport, army camps etc., it is common sense not to fly over the town (i.e. photos of rooftops) as if your drone fails it puts lives at risk. There are plenty of local fields you can take off from which gives you good proximity for cool shots as long as you have a decent lens. Also drones enable you to expand your creativity not just high altitude shots but those small angles and standpoints you can't quite achieve on foot. So maybe step back and think again... you may regret pulling out...

 

[Jamesz]

Like the others have said, don't give up. If you pick your time of day, it's not hard to find (for example) a piece of beach that gives you enough separation to fly completely legally. The Mini and Mini 2 are capable of perfectly good photography and currently give you almost unlimited access in the UK now and into the future in the Open category. You can of course take it on holiday too.

 

[Cymruflyer]

Your points are all valid to you, individually, but my first question would be “are you permitted to fly a drone above your own home, within the bounds of your property?” (assuming that it is a house and not an apartment). I regularly put my Air 2 up above my home to film 360 degree panoramas and especially sunset footage and often enjoy capturing the trees, flowers and scenic views just from the elevated perspective. I also periodically use my drone to inspect my roof and gutters (for leaves and cleaning). Then when I do travel away, the drone is so compact that it joins my other camera gear so that it is available, if needed (and permitted ?). I think that you would be pleasantly surprised how often you did get to fly your drone, even if while you are learning, you are limited to flying above your own home for a while. But you would find even that to be hugely rewarding. It is the combination of great visuals plus the pure brilliance of controlling a camera in flight that will make you wish you had bought the drone yesterday! You sound keen. My advice would be to just do it. And share the fun and the skills and the technology with the family. Then drop another note on this forum ……. The regulators will never be able to shut us all down. (But DJI might ……) We owe it to Orville & Wilbur! ??????

Actually we owe to it people way before Orville and Wilbur. Other humans few long before them and other powered aircraft flew before them. They are just the most documented.

 

[ericole]

To say "the curtain is about to come down hard" is overly dramatic as are about 90% of the rest of your comments. Yes the hobby/industry is a LOT different today than it was 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago but so is every other aspect of life. 4 decades ago I got started in this as a hobby with my father and it has given me some of the most amazing memories of my life (and I've had an amazing life). We adapt to changes and enjoy while we can.

Yes there are some places you can't fly a drone but there are some places you can't ride an ATV, drive your car, ride your horse, play your ball, shoot your gun.... and the list goes on and on.... But, there are many places you CAN do everything listed above. It's much more enjoyable to find ways you CAN do these things and contribute to your, and your family's HAPPINESS instead of naming the reasons you can't do something. Life is about DOING things and having FUN instead of excuses and why nots. Go buy a drone, learn how to fly safely, learn where you CAN fly and ENJOY seeing your life from a totally new and exciting perspective. I'm confident you'll be surprised how exciting life can be "out there living it".

Good luck and Best Wishes regardless what you chose to do going forward

No way you did this four decades ago. Technology didn’t exist.

 

[Zbip57]

No way you did this four decades ago. Technology didn’t exist.

Model airplanes existed long before that.

 

[ericole]

As a photographer a drone is the best landscape/architecture camera you'll ever get, being able to put the camera in any point of the three-dimensional space just feels like cheating compared to any hand held camera.

And that ability overcomes absolutely everything else.

Air2S camera is far from any FF DSLR on the image quality side, but you'll never see me doing landscapes with tripods and DSLRs again... even though I tried a few weeks ago and was just... lol, no way I'm wasting these clouds with this limited bidimensional point of view, I'm doing it with the drone.

On the practical side of things, droning is just like drivng. You pass the tests, you pick up you drone, have all the paperwork done and try to be within the rules... for the most part, and that's all. Unlike driving, you'll never get anyone killed with a sub 900g drone, flying camera casualties worldwide are still 0.

There's plenty of room to play, drones are limited but not forbidden, just use your brain and decide by yourself if the risk is worth the cost, like Norwegian philosopher Kierkegaard said, a life based on following the rules is a life lacking in authenticity.

If we stick 100% to the drone regulation active in my country (a mix of the new EASA one and the old drone regulation from 2017)... Of the 800 flights that I've done till now... only 4 or 5 have been 100% legal, and in two of those 100% legal flights I had problems with some random people (Karens) just freaking out... while on the other 795 "90% legal" flights I didn't had any problem at all... so yep, legal doesn't mean safer or better, just be smart and adapt every to the situation.

Just buy a Mini 2 and learn to fly, this **** is quite addictive so I assure you in less than a year you'll be doing photos on a Mavic 3.

That’s an interesting take, but regarding some of the youtubers I’ve watched recently, they are considering taking down footage they’ve had for years because new rules would make those illegal. They claim some of the nee (US) rules make it very difficult to get footage for anything that looks commercial or could be commercialized.

 

[ericole]

Model airplanes existed long before that.

I know, I’ve been flying. But no mention of those in the post. This is a mavic, drone forum.