How does 10Km range qualify as VLOS?

[Juggler]

I can see the sun and its a bit further than 6 kms away....
My name is Steve..................??????????

 

[blackomega]

Up in Canada the rules basically state if your watching your FPV on a tablet or your phone your breaking the VLOS rule. You have to be watching the drone at all times or have a spotter.

I have had a run in with transport Canada already on this.

 

[1bad]

A cop was once asked in court, How far can you see?

He said: I can see the moon, How far is that?


There was a another gent on here talking about what people just won't admit on this VLOS conversation. No issues here, I will fly to the drones capabilities <400 everytime if needed, unless real risk is identified in the area I am flying.

 

[Akademik]

So will they have to see VLOS or is this why we are limited to give them airspace?https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/06/10/wing-library-book-drone-delivery/

 

[cgmaxed]

Hey Gang,

Sorry, but I'm still confused about Visual Line Of Sight. Based on what I read in: Section 107.31 Visual line of sight aircraft operation. (2019), I see the following:

“(a) With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight in order to:

(1) Know the unmanned aircraft’s location;

(2) Determine the unmanned aircraft’s attitude, altitude, and direction of flight;

(3) Observe the airspace for other air traffic or hazards; and

(4) Determine that the unmanned aircraft does not endanger the life or property of another.

(b) Throughout the entire flight of the small unmanned aircraft, the ability described in paragraph (a) of this section must be exercised by either:

(1) The remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system; or

(2) A visual observer.“

People claimed that the 4Km range of the Mavic Air was a limitation and by adding Occusync 2.0, it now should match the 10Km range of the MP2. And yes, I understand there are other reasons for adding Occusync 2.0.

Who can actually see a drone that size from 10Km away with their unaided eyes? I would guess no one can unless the drone has had decent strobes added to it.

Thus my confusion about why these drones need to be able to fly 10Km away from the operator and it is considered a limiting factor if they can't?

The manufacturers use distance to describe how strong the signal is. The further the distance described, the stronger the signal. Thus, if you want to fly in areas with Natural and man made structures, they won't reduce your VLOS. The signal will penetrate the objects easier.

 

[Thomas B]

The manufacturers use distance to describe how strong the signal is. The further the distance described, the stronger the signal. Thus, if you want to fly in areas with Natural and man made structures, they won't reduce your VLOS. The signal will penetrate the objects easier.

If you get structures that are solid or A building between you and the controller they do reduce/eliminate your ability to see the drone and also result in signal loss an then RTH or landing is initiated fairly quickly. (Depends on your settings as to which one). Real world.

 

[cgmaxed]

So will they have to see VLOS or is this why we are limited to give them airspace?https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/06/10/wing-library-book-drone-delivery/

Tell birds to obey the rules. VLOS is odd. I would understand if you couldn't see the sky on a foggy day. But, VLOS is for avoiding manned aircraft. If you see one, just lower your altitude
to 150ft. No sane pilot will be flying at 150ft, unless it's landing or taking off.

 

[Thomas B]

Tell birds to obey the rules. VLOS is odd. I would understand if you couldn't see the sky on a foggy day. But, VLOS is for avoiding manned aircraft. If you see one, just lower your altitude
to 150ft. No sane pilot will be flying at 150ft, unless it's landing or taking off.

Stay alert. Not uncommonly airplane pilots do fly as low as 100-150’. I’ve done it over the desert in an F101.

 

[cgmaxed]

If you get structures that are solid or A building between you and the controller they do reduce/eliminate your ability to see the drone and also result in signal loss an then RTH or landing is initiated fairly quickly. (Depends on your settings as to which one). Real world.

I like the stronger signal as I fly because, sometimes solid objects get in my way for a second or 2. With the stronger signal, I am able to move my UAS to the left or right or up and continue my flight without the thing losing its connection and attempting a return to home. Also, It helps my night flying while using 3 mile collision lights. I stay under 400ft, but if i am below 400ft the tree line often blocks my VLOS and signal. The stronger signal allows me to increase altitude without losing connection while maintaining an altitude below 400ft..

 

[Thomas B]

I like the stronger signal as I fly because, sometimes solid objects get in my way for a second or 2. With the stronger signal, I am able to move my UAS to the left or right or up and continue my flight without the thing losing its connection and attempting a return to home. Also, It helps my night flying while using 3 mile collision lights. I stay under 400ft, but if i am below 400ft the tree line often blocks my VLOS and signal. The stronger signal allows me to increase altitude without losing connection while maintaining an altitude below 400ft..

Only if you make the adjustments within 10-15 seconds (tops) of having your view of the drone obstructed.

 

[cgmaxed]

Stay alert. Not uncommonly airplane pilots do fly as low as 100-150’. I’ve done it over the desert in an F101.

Yeah, I know. I live next to a small public airport. Sometimes helicopters or airplane
Pilots fly over my house below 400ft. They leave the controlled airspace corridor early and fly low over my house when I'm flying my drone. Its easy to avoid them, but I get annoyed when they leave the corridor early at low altitudes. Grrrr.

 

[ajkm]

The manufacturers use distance to describe how strong the signal is. The further the distance described, the stronger the signal. Thus, if you want to fly in areas with Natural and man made structures, they won't reduce your VLOS. The signal will penetrate the objects easier.

And this is the key - VLOS is exactly what it says, you MUST be able to see your aircraft with the unaided eye at all times while it is in flight. There is no other definition that meets the regulations (which, at this point, are virtually world-wide in application).

 

[cgmaxed]

Only if you make the adjustments within 10-15 seconds (tops) of having your view of the drone obstructed.

Agreed

 

[mfc]

Tell birds to obey the rules. VLOS is odd. I would understand if you couldn't see the sky on a foggy day. But, VLOS is for avoiding manned aircraft. If you see one, just lower your altitude
to 150ft. No sane pilot will be flying at 150ft, unless it's landing or taking off.

Not true -- microlight pilots often fly that low because wind speeds increase with altitude and their top airspeed might be as low as 30mph. Besides, one has a much better view of the ground from 150'...

 

[Thomas B]

Not true -- microlight pilots often fly that low because wind speeds increase with altitude and their top airspeed might be as low as 30mph. Besides, one has a much better view of the ground from 150'...

Also helicopter traffic may be very low... I have been inadvertently buzzed by them taking off from areas in Indian reservations, etc.

 

[cgmaxed]

Also helicopter traffic may be very low... I have been inadvertently buzzed by them taking off from areas in Indian reservations, etc.

Yeah, your right. Helicopters are more of a worry than most other aircraft. The police or emergency heli's just take off low and stay low and before you know it, you only have seconds to react. They are so low, they seem to just suddenly appear from out of no where, just above the tree line. That should be considered reckless, by the FAA if you ask me.. They surprise me unprepared, when they do that. I live next to a public municipal airport and a couple helicopter ports. I've never seen a microlight aircraft near my usual flight areas. They are not very common here in Naples Florida.

 

[cgmaxed]

Only if you make the adjustments within 10-15 seconds (tops) of having your view of the drone obstructed.

I was thinking, Without a stronger RC signal, you have less options to move your drone out of the way of a manned aircraft, if your drone is far away. Lowering your drone, will cause obstruction and loss of signal and then a return home response. Then you have no control. Moving to the left or right, also may cause signal loss if a tall structure is in the way. Then you have the same problem of the drone losing connection and flying home without ground pilot control. This could cause a collision with a manned aircraft. An attempt to lower altitude at a far distance will lose connection, create a return home scenario and possibly cause your drone to hit a manned aircraft , while it is out of the users control. Most of my drone Controllerd have power boosted antennas, to prevent me from losing control, and thus being able to avoid manned aircraft at far distances. If i see the lights of a manned aircraft I will lower the drone below their signal lights or move out of the way. The extra power allows me to be safer if there is a possible collision risk. Note though, these situations rarely if ever occur. Most of the time I just have to hover and wait for the manned aircraft to pass.

 

[cgmaxed]

Does any one know why helicopters, especially police and emergency medical helicopters often have their location beacons off? When I fly my Mavic Air 2 with ADS-B they don't show up. I don't get a warning. They shouldn't be allowed to not turn their beacons on. I love the ADS-B. It helps avoid aircraft, but it of no use for these low flying emergency helicopters.

 

[DanMan32]

Tell birds to obey the rules. VLOS is odd. I would understand if you couldn't see the sky on a foggy day. But, VLOS is for avoiding manned aircraft. If you see one, just lower your altitude
to 150ft. No sane pilot will be flying at 150ft, unless it's landing or taking off.

Or flying near beaches. Had that happen to me with a helicopter and small plane. I doubt those flights were legal though since many people were at the beach.

Should be noted that in direct observation the chopper seemed closer than it was. It was only through FPV that I determined it was further off shore than it seemed so VLOS isn't always the best answer.

 

[DanMan32]

Does any one know why helicopters, especially police and emergency medical helicopters often have their location beacons off? When I fly my Mavic Air 2 with ADS-B they don't show up. I don't get a warning. They shouldn't be allowed to not turn their beacons on. I love the ADS-B. It helps avoid aircraft, but it of no use for these low flying emergency helicopters.

For law enforcement, could be so the bad guys don't detect them. Can't think of a reason for medical though.

It could be they are transmitting but for some reason the MA2 isn't picking it up.