How does RID work?

[anotherlab]

Disregarding the WiFi definition discussion: If a cell phone that is connected to the internet is running an app and can ping your drone and get it's RID info, then does that same phone then send that data over the internet to a server somewhere that then enables other users of the app to also see the data?

Another words, if one person is in close enough proximity to ping your drone and get its RID, then can all other users of the app also see its location and info?

Could someone write a "Karen" app that shared that information? Yes, that could happen.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Disregarding the WiFi definition discussion: If a cell phone that is connected to the internet is running an app and can ping your drone and get it's RID info, then does that same phone then send that data over the internet to a server somewhere that then enables other users of the app to also see the data?

It certainly could. There's nothing preventing this.

However, there is no such requirement or feature like this in the RID system or specification. I'm not worried about it.

OTOH, I am absolutely certain the NSA will be gathering and storing as much of this data as they can. Seriously. That's their job.

Another words, if one person is in close enough proximity to ping your drone and get its RID, then can all other users of the app also see its location and info?

Not the apps currently available.

 

[DJ Wes]

... or drive-by comments..

ChatGPT is an amazing piece of software. It is very impressive in what it can do. However, when asked for data about specific topics it often starts out well but sometimes derails. You have to "fact check" its results.

In the information you provided, it stated:

>The term "Wi-Fi" stands for "Wireless Fidelity"

Which, of course is false. Look at the multitude of articles on "WiFi" and you will see that it stands for nothing. It is just a name given to this technology.

I've used ChatGPT enough to know that a "drive by" use of its output is risky.

 

[msinger]

I've used ChatGPT enough to know that a "drive by" use of its output is risky.

I guess one should consider the source of much (all?) of ChatGPT's knowledge -- the Internet. And I think it's common knowledge that everything on the Internet is not fact. I'm not sure what you mean by "drive by" use of ChatGPT knowledge, but everything it outputs is not incorrect either.

Look at the multitude of articles on "WiFi" and you will see that it stands for nothing

Here are some more details from Wikipedia:

"The Wi-Fi Alliance used the advertising slogan "The Standard for Wireless Fidelity" for a short time after the brand name was created, and the Wi-Fi Alliance was also called the "Wireless Fidelity Alliance Inc." in some publications. The name is often written as WiFi, Wifi, or wifi, but these are not approved by the Wi-Fi Alliance. IEEE is a separate, but related, organization and their website has stated "WiFi is a short name for Wireless Fidelity"."

Like "Wireless Fidelity", "WiFi" is also a slang term used by some. That name probably still gets thrown around since the "Wi-Fi Alliance" was first called the "Wireless Fidelity Alliance". And I digress now as we might be nitpicking a bit at this point.

 

[DARKSeifer]

If my controller is connected to the internet via WiFi, does it transmit my RID info over the internet to some server? Or is RID only transmitted by the drone itself when it gets pinged? And how exactly is the signal "broadcast"? I see references to both WiFi and Bluetooth. I don't understand how it could use WiFi unless it is working through your controller. Can someone better explain the mechanics of it?

Your drone basically emits from a high unobstructed area your telemetry and location for anyone with the proper app or device to hear. Commonly a smartphone/tablet using DroneScanner or OpendroneID.

A drone at 60+ meter height It's basically the perfect antenna so that emission can travel several kilometers. My personal record detecting my own Mavic 3 with my tablet sitting on a table in the garden, with line of sight with the drone, is 3.5 Km.

Dedicated devices with better antennas or smartphones/tablets set at higher unobstructed locations can blast that record easily.

The receiver is just a listener, there's no communication between the drone and the receiver, so those packages can be listened from really long distances. If the receiver has a sensitive enough antenna... 5 to 50Km can be achieved, just like Aeroscope.

In order to pick the pilot's location, you just need to pick one package, and even with bad connection, Drone Scanner can track the route quite well even at long distances.

So in resume, RID just turns you and your expensive flying camera in a 3.5+ Km target.

 

[New England Droning]

Yes. Depending on the type of antenna attached to the receiver, the signal can probably be received from quite a distance.


While this would be possible too, I doubt this is going to be a common use case.

I have yet to check the app I downloaded to see if my M3Pro can be seen by the average app. I personally do not worry about the authorities and assume they will have professional gear that will see drones at a good distance.
But I'm more interested in the average Joe/Jane with their cellphone app. I don't know but don't think the wifi signal being sent out will be one that these apps will be able to see for a 1/2 mile or more. I doubt they would receive more that 150 yards... But I'm not a wifi technician... (Used to be a network manager so techy is my thing).
Has anyone tried the apps to see if the drone is spotted?

 

[msinger]

But I'm more interested in the average Joe/Jane with their cellphone app

And even more interesting -- what do you think the average Joe/Jane is going to do with that data? Seems like much ado about nothing.

 

[anotherlab]

If you are really worried about someone knowing your takeoff location, just walk to a different location. If you see some nefarious characters converge on your takeoff point, then you can go someone safer and bring the drone in.

RID is only going to be a problem for people who were not following the rules. If someone is trying to see how far they can fly their drone, someone picking up some RID packets that show the drone 3 miles from the takeoff could send that to the FAA. For pilots flying responsibly, RID will show LEO and people trying to lodge complaints that the drones were not in violation of any rule.

 

[Saikiran Villa]

Hiii, My name is Saikiran Villa
Currently I am working on Drone communications. I have one doubt
1) How drones which has WiFi connectivity transmit their SSID.
2) When Drone's WiFi is switched ON, when "netsh wlan show network mode=Bssid" command is run, will we get the details like SSID, Authentication, Encryption, Network type of drone.
3) When they transmit their SSID, based on the signal strength, can we say whether the device is drone or WiFi.

Anyone Please provide any literature link or papers based on the above mentioned doubts.

 

[Droning on and on...]

If you are really worried about someone knowing your takeoff location, just walk to a different location.

This won't work with nearly all drones flying today, because RID is built in, the control station is required to have GPS, and the current location of the control station is forwarded to the drone and then broadcast with each RID message.

Move after takeoff and someone with an RID receiver can watch both your drone, and control position track.

 

[Saikiran Villa]

Hiii, My name is Saikiran Villa
Currently I am working on Drone communications. I have one doubt
1) How drones which has WiFi connectivity transmit their SSID.
2) When Drone's WiFi is switched ON, when "netsh wlan show network mode=Bssid" command is run, will we get the details like SSID, Authentication, Encryption, Network type of drone.
3) When they transmit their SSID, based on the signal strength, can we say whether the device is drone or WiFi.

Anyone Please provide any literature link or papers based on the above mentioned doubts.

Anyone please respond to this message

 

[DJ Wes]

This won't work with nearly all drones flying today, because RID is built in, the control station is required to have GPS, and the current location of the control station is forwarded to the drone and then broadcast with each RID message.

How so? Some of us fly with iPads which have location services but no GPS. Away from WiFi there will be no location data available to the iPad.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Anyone please respond to this message

The full technical details are available in the regulations passed in the Federal Aviation Regulations. The very technical details you are asking about... I've skimmed it myself.

Easy to find with a few minutes of Google searching. If I had the links handy, I'd share them. To get them, I'd have to Google it, something you can do.

 

[Droning on and on...]

How so? Some of us fly with iPads which have location services but no GPS. Away from WiFi there will be no location data available to the iPad.

And DJI Fly will give you an RID error and refuse to start the motors if there is no working location services available on the device. Note this "enforcement" only occurs with RID capable drones. Older models that must comply using an external module will not be blocked.

Try it.

 

[DJ Wes]

And DJI Fly will give you an RID error and refuse to start the motors if there is no working location services available on the device. Note this "enforcement" only occurs with RID capable drones. Older models that must comply using an external module will not be blocked.

Try it.

That is not correct. When I said those of us who fly using iPads that means those of us who fly using iPads with DJI RID-capable drones.

Try it.

 

[Droning on and on...]

That is not correct. When I said those of us who fly using iPads that means those of us who fly using iPads with DJI RID-capable drones.

Try it.

DJI Fly will let you take off without your control station location? That's news to me. IIRC the regs explicitly disallow that, but that's from memory... I'll look it up later.

I can say from direct experience I can't take off with my Avata without control station location, get an RID error. I assumed this was implemented the same across all RID integrated DJI drones.

 

[DJ Wes]

DJI Fly will let you take off without your control station location?

DJI Fly will let one take off with a device that does not have GPS. iPads do have location services but most do not have GPS. Without GPS, an iPad must depend on WiFi for location where possible. I fly with one all the time with DJI drones updated to RID-enabled firmware and the latest controlling software.

I can say from direct experience I can't take off with my Avata without control station location, get an RID error.

That may be true, but from your responses, I can tell you have no direct experience flying with a GPS-less iPad using Go4, Fly, Litchi, etc. I do.

 

[Droning on and on...]

DJI Fly will let one take off with a device that does not have GPS. iPads do have location services but most do not have GPS. Without GPS, an iPad must depend on WiFi for location where possible. I fly with one all the time with DJI drones updated to RID-enabled firmware and the latest controlling software.


That may be true, but from your responses, I can tell you have no direct experience flying with a GPS-less iPad using Go4, Fly, Litchi, etc. I do.

No, I don't.

To be clear, however, I tried to be careful in my responses above and speak of "location services", not specifically GPS. Although I do see I referenced GPS in my initial response #30, so I completely understand your response. My fault entirely.

In #34, I said, "...refuse to start the motors if there is no working location services available on the device"; you responded that was not true. Am I understanding your claim correctly?

Will DJI Fly allow you start the motors and take off using your iPad if you have no functioning location services, or do you get an RID error and are prevented from taking off?

I do not own any iOS devices, so I can't test that exact configuration. I will test it with my Android phone and a Mini 3 Pro when I get home.

 

[DJ Wes]

To be clear, however, I tried to be careful in my responses above and speak of "location services", not specifically GPS. Although I do see I referenced GPS in my initial response #30, so I completely understand your response.

Yes. You did mention GPS which prompted my initial reply.

In #34, I said, "...refuse to start the motors if there is no working location services available on the device"; you responded that was not true. Am I understanding your claim correctly?

In this case I was still fixated on your comment about no GPS = no take-off. iPads do have a location service which can be enabled or disabled. However, with no GPS its accuracy is limited.

Will DJI Fly allow you start the motors and take off using your iPad if you have no functioning location services, or do you get an RID error and are prevented from taking off?

I have not tried that. Thinking back to when I had installed the DJI apps -- I would have allowed location access.

My point is, RID does not require your flying device to have GPS. It probably does require the flying device to have access to location services, no matter how accurate or inaccurate they are.

 

[Felix le Chat]

If my controller is connected to the internet via WiFi, does it transmit my RID info over the internet to some server? Or is RID only transmitted by the drone itself when it gets pinged? And how exactly is the signal "broadcast"? I see references to both WiFi and Bluetooth. I don't understand how it could use WiFi unless it is working through your controller. Can someone better explain the mechanics of it?

Non- proprietary RID works exactly the same way DJI proprietary RID has been working for the last 5 or 6 years. The drone transmits an RF frequency signal that is detected by dedicated receivers which are usually linked together to form a WAN, the signal contains the drone ID and coarse positioning data. The receivers are normally in, or around the larger airports, airfields, but larger networks of them are also installed in surrounding areas. The DJI UUID (Unique User IDentification) is also sent which specifically identifies the user of the drone. This UUID is linked to the IP address of the mobile device connected to the logged-in flight app which can be located in the same manner that any cell phone can. The UUID is also linked to the IP/MAC address of the router through which the drone was originally registered using the flight app.... normally... your living room.
That's Aeroscope for you.... the original flavour of RID, built into the drone at manufacture.