How I would like to see regulations tweaked for US national parks

[Duckhunter50]

I would like to use my flying camera in US National parks. There are some great shots that can't be taken because of the regulations. I understand the need to have some of those regulations in place. I can only Imagine how many drones there might be in the air when Old Faithful erupts in Yellowstone. It really makes sense to clamp down on that kind of thing in some places. I also can see how the peaceful and quiet atmosphere would be disturbed by what sounds like a swarm of angry bees. I also realized that the entirety Of Lake Powell is also a national recreation area. So drones are banned there too. In a place like Lake Powell that is large and sparsely populated it doesn't make as much sense to me.

So my proposal would be similar to the Nation Parks (specifically Yellowstone National Park) policy on backcountry hiking. They have a system of permits that enable people to hike in the backcountry. I would like to see a process that enables people who want to use a drone recreationly to video/photograph certian points of interest to be able to apply for a permit for a date and time of day. That way the park can keep track of who is using a drone, where, when and we can get unique photos of some amazing places.

I'm interested if this proposal would be realistic or completly out of bounds. I'm more familiar with national parks in the Western U.S. so I dont know what it would look like in those places. I'd like any input from others.

I am advocating for a system that one could obtain a permit to film a point of interest or location as easily as it to obtain a backcountry hiking permit. I think the park manager should be able to limit permits to a certain number and make areas off limits if appropriate. The process as it is now is a very burdensome.

Edited to clarify and condense

 

[Phantomrain.org]

I propose that we be able to pay a flying fee for that day , So parks can keep up there bathroom and offer better amenities...

But somehow Parks dont really care about making money , so there not likely to ever want to change policy.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly you Mavic in the Rain or Land on Water.

 

[Duckhunter50]

That would be part of the permitting system similar to the backcountry camping permits which cost a minimal fee.

 

[Rich QR]

I would like to use my flying camera in US National parks. There are some great shots that can't be taken because of the regulations. I understand the need to have some of those regulations in place. I can only Imagine how many drones there might be in the air when Old Faithful erupts in Yellowstone. It really makes sense to clamp down on that kind of thing in some places. I also can see how the peaceful and quiet atmosphere would be disturbed by what sounds like a swarm of angry bees. I also realized that the entirety Of Lake Powell is also a national recreation area. So drones are banned there too. In a place like Lake Powell that is large and sparsely populated it doesn't make as much sense to me.

So my proposal would be similar to the Nation Parks (specifically Yellowstone National Park) policy on backcountry hiking. They have a system of permits that enable people to hike in the backcountry. I would like to see a process that enables people who want to use a drone recreationly to video/photograph certian points of interest to be able to apply for a permit for a date and time of day. That way the park can keep track of who is using a drone, where, when and we can get unique photos of some amazing places.

I'm interested if this proposal would be realistic or completly out of bounds. I'm more familiar with national parks in the Western U.S. so I dont know what it would look like in those places. I'd like any input from others.

There is already a framework set up to allow drone use inside a National Park with a Special Use Permit. They're not easy to get, though. They won't be issued just because you want to get some nice vacation shots.

The Parks are for the people, but not only for the people. They are for the wildlife, as well, and some wildlife (and my dog, for that matter) are disturbed by the noise. I support having most areas of most National Parks set aside as drone-free zones, and I shudder to imagine a place like Yosemite Valley with unlimited drone access.

I might support some limited opening of less popular areas of some Parks for limited drone use, but it would be tough to maintain the limits.

 

[Duckhunter50]

@Rich QR, I hear what you are saying. I feel the same way. I don't want a bunch of drones flying around either but in each park close to me, Yellowstone, Teton, Arches, Canyon Lands, Zion, Bryce there are places and times that it wouldn't be a big deal to fly a drone. I would want to have the local Park ranger in charge of each park to be able to decide how many is enough or too many. Hence the idea of issuing a limited number of permits per day or whatever to regulate rather than prohibit the use (or as we have it now make it so difficult that it unusable) in our current situation.

 

[Thomas B]

I love to fly my M2P and the vistas it promotes, but honestly don’t want to hear drones or see their strobes on most of my hikes in wilderness areas or national park.
It can be permitted by the NFS for limited time... if granted they may take a year to obtain.

 

[BigAl07]

I also LOVE flying my aircraft (it's not just fun but it's also how I make a living). But I also LOVE getting out into the National Parks and not being disturbed by UAS. Imagine being out there in a nice quiet peaceful area and "buzzzzzzz" overhead comes a UAS. I fully support a full NPS ban on UAS except for Special Permitting (which seems to work very well).

 

[Duckhunter50]

Glad to hear some opinions. I guess I'm not advocating for out in the wilderness and back country areas of parks. What I am advocating for is a limited number of permits determined by the park manager as not to be an annoyance in the park that is as easy to procure as the backcountry camping permits. I look at Lake Powell that is a National Recreational area that has house boats, jet skiis, fishing boats and tour boats. So not exactly a quiet area per se, but it falls under the national park ban on drones. I look at Mt. Rushmore that is a National monument but heavily developed. Obviously the permits for a place like that could be to where it was only during the off-peak season or early/late in the day. I also look at Yellowstone that has a road that goes from West Yellowstone, MT to Big Sky, MT. Its technically in the park but just on the fringe. I would love to get some video of that but I would get fined under the current policy unless I could jump through the hoops which is quite burdensome to get 5-10 minutes of video.

 

[natgild]

I have heard that one of the reasons that drones were banned in National Parks was because some idiot sunk one in one of the pools in Yellowstone like the Morning Glory Hole...



That said, there are also idiots that still throw coins and other items. Too bad we can't outlaw stupidity.

 

[tlswift58]

I would like to use my flying camera in US National parks. There are some great shots that can't be taken because of the regulations. I understand the need to have some of those regulations in place. I can only Imagine how many drones there might be in the air when Old Faithful erupts in Yellowstone. It really makes sense to clamp down on that kind of thing in some places. I also can see how the peaceful and quiet atmosphere would be disturbed by what sounds like a swarm of angry bees. I also realized that the entirety Of Lake Powell is also a national recreation area. So drones are banned there too. In a place like Lake Powell that is large and sparsely populated it doesn't make as much sense to me.

So my proposal would be similar to the Nation Parks (specifically Yellowstone National Park) policy on backcountry hiking. They have a system of permits that enable people to hike in the backcountry. I would like to see a process that enables people who want to use a drone recreationly to video/photograph certian points of interest to be able to apply for a permit for a date and time of day. That way the park can keep track of who is using a drone, where, when and we can get unique photos of some amazing places.

I'm interested if this proposal would be realistic or completly out of bounds. I'm more familiar with national parks in the Western U.S. so I dont know what it would look like in those places. I'd like any input from others.

I am advocating for a system that one could obtain a permit to film a point of interest or location as easily as it to obtain a backcountry hiking permit. I think the park manager should be able to limit permits to a certain number and make areas off limits if appropriate. The process as it is now is a very burdensome.

Edited to clarify and condense

The NPS could issue a paper placard a drone pilot could wear - like when people go to a convention and they wear those neck loops with a plastic pouch at the bottom to hold the paper certificate.

Each drone pilot would have to have these out and visible - like for press people and people selling door to door - so that anyone who may question - can see that you do have "permission" to fly the drone in that space.

I have seen people flying drones in spaces like NPS areas like the Blue Ridge Parkway. With a space like that typically only a few hundred feet wide in some places - the "restricted zone" annoyances may not go off. Also flying on the boundaries of spaces is also a huge question mark. I have flown from public roadways near the BRP at locations like the Linn Cove Viaduct and other drone pilots were at same spot as well. No warnings / beeping from the DJI Fly App.

I just flew recently outside of Gatlinburg, TN on a public access road (and private homes all around); but looking at apps like Kitty Hawk and UAV were unclear if it was permissible. When I started the drone and DJI App - nothing popped up on my screen and no bitching betty saying I was in the park. Got some excellent drone footage of Gatlinburg. Was not trying to fly inside the park due to restrictions.

There does need to be a way to fly in spaces under restrictions in parks. Even state parks are joining the drone ban and that is crap. I also understand people who don't care about flight safety and consideration of people / wildlife; but they are the exception (that kills us legal and good pilots) and not the rule.

 

[tlswift58]

I would like to use my flying camera in US National parks. There are some great shots that can't be taken because of the regulations. I understand the need to have some of those regulations in place. I can only Imagine how many drones there might be in the air when Old Faithful erupts in Yellowstone. It really makes sense to clamp down on that kind of thing in some places. I also can see how the peaceful and quiet atmosphere would be disturbed by what sounds like a swarm of angry bees. I also realized that the entirety Of Lake Powell is also a national recreation area. So drones are banned there too. In a place like Lake Powell that is large and sparsely populated it doesn't make as much sense to me.

So my proposal would be similar to the Nation Parks (specifically Yellowstone National Park) policy on backcountry hiking. They have a system of permits that enable people to hike in the backcountry. I would like to see a process that enables people who want to use a drone recreationly to video/photograph certian points of interest to be able to apply for a permit for a date and time of day. That way the park can keep track of who is using a drone, where, when and we can get unique photos of some amazing places.

I'm interested if this proposal would be realistic or completly out of bounds. I'm more familiar with national parks in the Western U.S. so I dont know what it would look like in those places. I'd like any input from others.

I am advocating for a system that one could obtain a permit to film a point of interest or location as easily as it to obtain a backcountry hiking permit. I think the park manager should be able to limit permits to a certain number and make areas off limits if appropriate. The process as it is now is a very burdensome.

Edited to clarify and condense

I agree. Getting a special permit and wearing that paper permit with a neck loop and plastic holder like people wear at conventions / journalists / door to door sales wear - so to alert people in the area that you have special permission to fly.

 

[tlswift58]

I propose that we be able to pay a flying fee for that day , So parks can keep up there bathroom and offer better amenities...

But somehow Parks dont really care about making money , so there not likely to ever want to change policy.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly you Mavic in the Rain or Land on Water.

Not true of NPS's in the south. Great Smoky Mtn Nat Park appreciates contributions and private groups (like Friends of the Smokies which I am a member) to help pay for a lot of trail repairs, conservation, and general upkeep that they can't pay for from their limited yearly funding from Uncle Sugar. With over 12 million people visiting the Smokies every year - it takes a beating and all financial assistance is 100% appreciated by the Top Ranger in Charge. Otherwise, stuff goes on hold for years and worsens the whole park.

I would gladly pay a fee of say $50 a year so I could fly in the Smokies and on the Blue Ridge Parkway. I can fly in many places outside of the Blue Ridge proper and fly over features like the Linn Cove Viaduct, but many others no way as too far to fly from unrestricted take-off / landing areas.

As stated in another comment - having a neck badge out on display could be part of the solution to flying and people knowing you are legally doing it. Of course, there will be some few who think they don't have to do that and fly inside a park and not pay the fees (cheap people) and have the badge. Yet, the good people can help monitor that within the parks as rangers can't be everywhere.

 

[tlswift58]

I love to fly my M2P and the vistas it promotes, but honestly don’t want to hear drones or see their strobes on most of my hikes in wilderness areas or national park.
It can be permitted by the NFS for limited time... if granted they may take a year to obtain.

If only a few permits are issued for a given day and for specific areas - hearing a drone at 200-300 foot is not as likely. That altitude would be almost a given since most parks are full of trees that would need to be flown over.

There are many spots in most parks where flying a drone could even be done with nobody knowing you were even there - ie - Grand Canyon away from main areas, Grand Tetons (where it is doable to take off / land outside of park proper to fly into airspace for some better shots / videos), and others. Places like Yellowstone / Yosemite / etc that are smaller and more concentrated and full of people 1/2 to 3/4's of the year would be harder with all the current safety regulations in place.

 

[Thomas B]

Too many assumptions. Like I said...,
I love to fly my M2P and the vistas it promotes, but honestly don’t want to hear drones or see their strobes on most of my hikes in wilderness areas or national park.
It can be permitted by the NFS for limited time... if granted they may take a year to obtain.

 

[tlswift58]

I also LOVE flying my aircraft (it's not just fun but it's also how I make a living). But I also LOVE getting out into the National Parks and not being disturbed by UAS. Imagine being out there in a nice quiet peaceful area and "buzzzzzzz" overhead comes a UAS. I fully support a full NPS ban on UAS except for Special Permitting (which seems to work very well).

Having a quota per day is much like the Special Permission process, but won't take weeks / months to obtain if at all.

Nat Parks are OUR space as well - not just yours or others. If a park had say 5 permits per day - then the likelihood of you / others / and wildlife being disturbed is very low. If a park such as Great Smoky Mtns / Yellowstone / Grand Tetons / others that are HUGE had 5-10 permits per day - then most people would never know a drone was in the space. With props and drones becoming much quieter - these enhancements lessen the noise / disturb issue.

There are still many rules and safety issues every drone pilot should be abiding by. As long as those are covered and being done - having a couple of drones in a park would / should be a non-issue.

 

[tlswift58]

I have heard that one of the reasons that drones were banned in National Parks was because some idiot sunk one in one of the pools in Yellowstone like the Morning Glory Hole...

View attachment 121847

That said, there are also idiots that still throw coins and other items. Too bad we can't outlaw stupidity.

People still go off the boardwalks into areas that the reason for the boardwalk being there is for. Those caught doing so do get fined and usually no longer allowed in National Parks - how they monitor that - I do not know.

There are those few bad apples that have zero common sense / pilot abilities / and could care less about rules and proper drone flying. So, we restrict the many whom go above and beyond to be responsible, take courses on flight safety / regulations, and even get their 107. I know there is no real way of governing all that, yet as some have stated - having a few day passes to fly in some locations would benefit the parks - IMHO. We drone pilots would also need to help Park Rangers monitor that if we're in the park flying or not flying if they don't display a permit.

 

[Thomas B]

...

 

[Gringorio]

I'm for no drones ever in National Parks. Enough is enough already. Go buy a postcard if you're that desperate.

 

[Duckhunter50]

Are there any regulations regarding the use of drones in National Parks other than the Memorandum from Jonathon B. Jarvis dated June19, 2014?

The reason I ask is because it seems that the above stated memo has an abundance of language i.e. "interim policy", "until the NPS can determine", "a new form of park use may be allowed within a park only after a determination has been made" etc.

It seems that the policy was put in place to hit the brakes for now and be revisited later to reevaluate the use of drones in the park. But I don't know if they did reevaluate and issue new guidelines or they never got back to and left it as it stands in the memo.

Policy Memorandum 14-05 r.e. unmanned aircraft in National Parks.

 

[Thomas B]

Are there any regulations regarding the use of drones in National Parks other than the Memorandum from Jonathon B. Jarvis dated June19, 2014?

The reason I ask is because it seems that the above stated memo has an abundance of language i.e. "interim policy", "until the NPS can determine", "a new form of park use may be allowed within a park only after a determination has been made" etc.

It seems that the policy was put in place to hit the brakes for now and be revisited later to reevaluate the use of drones in the park. But I don't know if they did reevaluate and issue new guidelines or they never got back to and left it as it stands in the memo.

Policy Memorandum 14-05 r.e. unmanned aircraft in National Parks.

Yes it is an NFS/NOS posted policy.