I think my City/City Parks Dept are giving me a hard time, please advise

[Duke_Mulligan]

City/county/state park managers have to deal with different groups of people and their hobbies. What they respond to is public interactions in their jurisdictions. Some of these managers only want the public to play nice together however (like many of the general public), some don't actually know about FAA flight rules. Many simply respond to complaints and that is when the signs come out...legal or not. They also have to deal with out of compliance flights. We have a lot of small parks that the city has no drone restrictions at but common sense says suggests taking a drone to one of the dedicated dog parks would be a poor move even if you can. There is a very large county park north of my city that allows UAV flights. The fixed wing, racing drone, and FPV crowd seem to cooperate together most of the time and most respect the parks main rule... do not bother others. It seems to work. The first time I flew there I called and asked if there were any specific rules and the manager was very thankful I asked. His main concern with any UAV operation was not to bug folks using the park, staying within VLOS, not flying over roads, cars, or people, and if there is one tractor mowing the grass or any workers in the field, we have to find a vacant field to fly over. And although I had to ask about the specific flight rules not mentioned, they had other rules posted we have to follow:

• No outside food or drink allowed. Just water allowed.
• No pets allowed.
• NO SEEDS or shells allowed -Strictly Enforced.
• No bikes, skateboards, or anything like it allowed.
• No Metal Cleats on the mounds. This is for all ages!
• No smoking.
• No vandalizing the facilities or plants and trees.
• No overnight RVs.

I'm one to avoid conflict with park workers or the public, but if the park is large enough to play together, perhaps you can find a different park that does allow UAV operations to show it as an example to what might be able to work at your park. Asking as a club or group might help convince them to allow some type of hobby flight. Just a thought.

Well, thanks for that post, and I think those are an excellent set of rules and practices you adhere to!

I definitely hold the same standard for myself flying in the parks - only flying in spaces physically large enough to warrant it, and generally not flying when there are a lot of people around - even if I can stay away from technically flying “over” them, I don’t want to create a sound pollution issue in the nice peaceful park when people are trying to enjoy it.

Unfortunately, I haven’t found any active clubs or groups nearby. But maybe with time I’ll find one!

 

[eaglesurfing]

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[Thomas B]

Well ... in Arizona the state legislature passed a law a few years back stating that the authority to regulate drone use, other than on federal lands, is reserved to the state.
Of course... it could get expensive to challenge a park, HOA, or town/city which has an illegal ordinance. Still, I carry a copy of this public law along with my FAA registration letter to show anyone who challenges my flight.

 

[SethB]

Though I’ve been teaching “ground school” drone classes at a local community college for some time, I only recently started a course that includes flying. Sadly, under local COVID restrictions, we were not going to be able to meet in person.

So, I took this as an excuse to email every parks district in my area, which includes two states, four counties, and seven cities, to ask “are drones permitted to fly in (your) parks?” I felt it important to *not* call. If I was going to refer students to a location to practice their skills there would be a written record of a parks employee’s guidance. That’s just prudent, right?

People will say whatever on the phone, but usually not in writing - if they don’t know the answer they’ll refer it to someone who does.

Results were that most parks are now allowing flying, with typical common-sense guidelines regarding no impact to other park users. “Now allowing” meaning that when I researched this about 12 months ago, most didn’t allow drone flying. My understanding is that the FAA has been reaching out to local jurisdictions and especially local law enforcement with some good messaging and pocket card references about what is legal operation. Those parks boards who reflexively regulated drones as a nuisance are slowly getting the message.

Were there to be a parks employee watching me at a couple locations, I’d guess they were either waiting to see if I was doing anything idiotic that might be reckless of other park users or property. Or they could be fascinated by these little devices that defy gravity.

Same thing with local law enforcement officers, in my opinion. Mostly they seem to be concerned about the foolish, the reckless, the devil-may-care crowd. The intoxicated. The willfully ignorant. Those who present as the people who may harm others.

 

[MavicPeter]

Though I’ve been teaching “ground school” drone classes at a local community college for some time, I only recently started a course that includes flying. Sadly, under local COVID restrictions, we were not going to be able to meet in person.

So, I took this as an excuse to email every parks district in my area, which includes two states, four counties, and seven cities, to ask “are drones permitted to fly in (your) parks?” I felt it important to *not* call. If I was going to refer students to a location to practice their skills there would be a written record of a parks employee’s guidance. That’s just prudent, right?

People will say whatever on the phone, but usually not in writing - if they don’t know the answer they’ll refer it to someone who does.

Results were that most parks are now allowing flying, with typical common-sense guidelines regarding no impact to other park users. “Now allowing” meaning that when I researched this about 12 months ago, most didn’t allow drone flying. My understanding is that the FAA has been reaching out to local jurisdictions and especially local law enforcement with some good messaging and pocket card references about what is legal operation. Those parks boards who reflexively regulated drones as a nuisance are slowly getting the message.

Were there to be a parks employee watching me at a couple locations, I’d guess they were either waiting to see if I was doing anything idiotic that might be reckless of other park users or property. Or they could be fascinated by these little devices that defy gravity.

Same thing with local law enforcement officers, in my opinion. Mostly they seem to be concerned about the foolish, the reckless, the devil-may-care crowd. The intoxicated. The willfully ignorant. Those who present as the people who may harm others.

Thanks so much for the effort here to get written clarity from the parks authorities. This is a really helpful playbook for anyone else to follow. Also nice to hear that the FAA has been working to educate the local authorities on the permissible rules and regulations.

 

[Dbez1]

I had a situation somewhat similar to yours. I contacted the FAA UAS division and they called the Park and followed up with an email on my behalf. Contact them with specific locations and they’ll do the research and get back to you.
[email protected]
Best wishes.

 

[Duke_Mulligan]

I had a situation somewhat similar to yours. I contacted the FAA UAS division and they called the Park and followed up with an email on my behalf. Contact them with specific locations and they’ll do the research and get back to you.
[email protected]
Best wishes.

Good info, thanks!

 

[DoomMeister]

@Duke_Mulligan

My post here is a little late to the party, but this battle was fought in Genesee County and the final decision was handed down in February 2020.

On going preliminary injunction hearing for the MCDO v Genesee County case

Roughly one month after the initial preliminary injunction hearing for the MCDO v Genesee County case regarding the ability to fly drones in the Genesee County Public Parks, drone operators once again filed into a Flint, Michigan courtroom. MCDO, short for Michigan Coalition of Drone Operators...

yuneecpilots.com

 

[MikeinMO]

@Duke_Mulligan

My post here is a little late to the party, but this battle was fought in Genesee County and the final decision was handed down in February 2020.

On going preliminary injunction hearing for the MCDO v Genesee County case

Roughly one month after the initial preliminary injunction hearing for the MCDO v Genesee County case regarding the ability to fly drones in the Genesee County Public Parks, drone operators once again filed into a Flint, Michigan courtroom. MCDO, short for Michigan Coalition of Drone Operators...

yuneecpilots.com

After reading that court case summary, I wonder:

What are the “17 states in the U.S. that prevent local government from creating their own ordinances when it comes to drone operations”? Seems like a list of those states would be helpful.

 

[spudster]

After reading that court case summary, I wonder:

What are the “17 states in the U.S. that prevent local government from creating their own ordinances when it comes to drone operations”? Seems like a list of those states would be helpful.

Florida is one.

 

[DoomMeister]

I know of Michigan and Florida which are the ones I care most about.

 

[Tankueray]

After reading that court case summary, I wonder:

What are the “17 states in the U.S. that prevent local government from creating their own ordinances when it comes to drone operations”? Seems like a list of those states would be helpful.

Texas is another: GOVERNMENT CODE CHAPTER 423. USE OF UNMANNED AIRCRAFT

 

[Tankueray]

I use this document as a “ice breaker” tool. After someone has read it, I can tell if they have a confrontational anti drone mentality or they are just curious. Then I can make a decision to walk or talk.

Thank you! I'm going to type up something like this to laminate and put on my flight bag. I've recently been tasked with and have attended training (32 hours, hands-on) to fly for work, and will be taking my test in the next week or so. I have to practice frequently to demonstrate capability, and it's not always practical to drive out of town to the AMA park.

 

[NightFlightAlright]

One other note if people come up to you and ask you why your flying a drone you simply tell them your practicing for search and rescue and to see if this is area has a good signal to be put on the List.

This has always worked for me and shuts down any other arguments that could come up.

This is really great advice, I wonder if it it works better if you’re flying your phantom as opposed to flying a mini two or mini three… But I suppose the minis are actually not bad for searching, able to get in tighter spaces.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

This is really great advice, I wonder if it it works better if you’re flying your phantom as opposed to flying a mini two or mini three… But I suppose the minis are actually not bad for searching, able to get in tighter spaces.

I think what aids in pulling this off is the Wet Suit or a Nicely Colored Drone that looks like its there to gain Attention to be seen from the sky with Function. I also explain that once the drone looses signal : A Return To Home Beckon is set off for Automatic Return and I can trigger that at will and than take off again in another direction.

Gear to fly in the Rain .
Phantomrain.org

 

[Bob Jones]

Hi all,

New Mavic Air 2 pilot here. Wonderful piece of technology. I'm Hobbyist FAA registered, just getting that out of the way first.

I wanted to take my first flight at a large city park yesterday, so beforehand I checked the city and parks department websites, B4UFLY, as well as just some google reading, to make sure there weren't any restrictions in that spot, and found nothing holding me back. I took two 6-ish minute flights. When I was reviewing my footage later, as I landed at the end of flight 2, there was a city parks department truck parked a ways behind me, in a way that looked like he may have been watching me. On the other hand, it was lunch time, so I figured maybe he was just taking his lunch, as there were a few other cars in the lot apparently doing the same. Now, like I said, I didn't notice this until afterwards on the video, they never approached me or anything. Today I flew at a different large city park, and whaddya know, at the end of my flight, I see another parks department truck parked behind me, again like they were watching me, but no contact. Whatever, I had to get back to work, but as I left, he followed me out of the park until I had gotten back on the street.

Now, the basic info on these flights are, I believe I followed all the rules. Class G airspace, in both cases there were very few people in the park period, and I was definitely maintaining a safe distance from them, proper altitude, within visual distance of myself, etc. I did take off and land from the parking lot, but in fact, I actually took off and landed on the hard tonneau of my truck on day 1, and then proceeded directly over a frozen pond, not having to cross over any other cars, even though they were parked and either empty or drivers just sitting inside (it's cold here), and by coincidence, same thing today, parked near a pond and then took off and flew over it. When I landed, someone had parked next to me, so I landed on the other side of my truck, and there were additional open spaces past that.

So, having a funny feeling in my gut, I called the parks department to inquire, and got redirected to city hall. When I asked the rep if drones are allowed in city parks, he stated that they are not, and this is the part that really makes me question it - he said drones aren't allowed because FAA regulations state that drones can't be flown inside the limits of any city because they are a highly populated area, and also because FAA regulations prohibit flying in public parks.

Now, being a new pilot, I don't know the rules inside and out, but the pre-flight, and now post-flight, research I've done don't agree with this. I see no such language from the FAA. Additionally, I live in Michigan, and the law states that municipalities cannot create their own regulations on UAS use, pilots are only required to follow FAA guidelines.

So, my first question is, am I out of line legally, or are they either uninformed, or just trying to intimidate pilots out of flying?

And, second question, what should I do if I have the right to fly in these areas? I would prefer not to stir up a hornet's nest if they're going to watch me all the time and try to report me to the FAA for some technicality, but also wonder if I should just contact them directly and inform them of the law and see what they say. That is, if I'm even correct about it.

TIA!

They are trying to intimidate. Realtors fly in city neighbourhoods for listing pictures everyday. That said any drone over 250grams needs approval.

 

[DoomMeister]

Hi all,

New Mavic Air 2 pilot here. Wonderful piece of technology. I'm Hobbyist FAA registered, just getting that out of the way first.

I wanted to take my first flight at a large city park yesterday, so beforehand I checked the city and parks department websites, B4UFLY, as well as just some google reading, to make sure there weren't any restrictions in that spot, and found nothing holding me back. I took two 6-ish minute flights. When I was reviewing my footage later, as I landed at the end of flight 2, there was a city parks department truck parked a ways behind me, in a way that looked like he may have been watching me. On the other hand, it was lunch time, so I figured maybe he was just taking his lunch, as there were a few other cars in the lot apparently doing the same. Now, like I said, I didn't notice this until afterwards on the video, they never approached me or anything. Today I flew at a different large city park, and whaddya know, at the end of my flight, I see another parks department truck parked behind me, again like they were watching me, but no contact. Whatever, I had to get back to work, but as I left, he followed me out of the park until I had gotten back on the street.

Now, the basic info on these flights are, I believe I followed all the rules. Class G airspace, in both cases there were very few people in the park period, and I was definitely maintaining a safe distance from them, proper altitude, within visual distance of myself, etc. I did take off and land from the parking lot, but in fact, I actually took off and landed on the hard tonneau of my truck on day 1, and then proceeded directly over a frozen pond, not having to cross over any other cars, even though they were parked and either empty or drivers just sitting inside (it's cold here), and by coincidence, same thing today, parked near a pond and then took off and flew over it. When I landed, someone had parked next to me, so I landed on the other side of my truck, and there were additional open spaces past that.

So, having a funny feeling in my gut, I called the parks department to inquire, and got redirected to city hall. When I asked the rep if drones are allowed in city parks, he stated that they are not, and this is the part that really makes me question it - he said drones aren't allowed because FAA regulations state that drones can't be flown inside the limits of any city because they are a highly populated area, and also because FAA regulations prohibit flying in public parks.

Now, being a new pilot, I don't know the rules inside and out, but the pre-flight, and now post-flight, research I've done don't agree with this. I see no such language from the FAA. Additionally, I live in Michigan, and the law states that municipalities cannot create their own regulations on UAS use, pilots are only required to follow FAA guidelines.

So, my first question is, am I out of line legally, or are they either uninformed, or just trying to intimidate pilots out of flying?

And, second question, what should I do if I have the right to fly in these areas? I would prefer not to stir up a hornet's nest if they're going to watch me all the time and try to report me to the FAA for some technicality, but also wonder if I should just contact them directly and inform them of the law and see what they say. That is, if I'm even correct about it.

TIA!

Just an update on Parks in Grand Rapids. Use of drones is not prohibited in the parks (see attached Park Rules pdf file).

The person you talked to at City Hall was an anti-drone uninformed bureaucrat that was spewing incorrect information to you.

We Michiganders do have it good as far as droning goes. The State set forth rulings that the FAA regulations are what municipalities will follow for drone use guidelines. Florida is another with similar rules.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

I have quite a few videos of the Police Cruisers behind me in the Park as I am flying over the lake and at first I was quick to reel the drone in. Latter I learned that they just enjoyed the show waiting for me to Crash. lol

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain. Land on the Water and put a show on for the Lake Watchers.

 

[Walleye Hunter]

I like those preemption laws you have in MI, I'll have to see what we have here in PA. I have not heard of any skirmishes over drone flying yet. On the OP's issue. I'm going to stick my neck out and suspect that someone called them and they came out to check it out. Unfortunately, they'll do whatever they can to appease one crying baby.

 

[Don Testme]

Yeah, I definitely agree with not wanting to get into any legal battles, or just giving the parks department and city an undue hard time, as I believe they're good guys on the whole. I'm considering giving them the info from the FAA and state, and seeing what they say, just to get a feel for their attitude. If they back off and don't fuss as long as I'm behaving when I fly, that would be nice, but if they really try to fight it, I'm just not going there.

Regarding take-off, landing, and operation, this is what the state law says:
"Except as expressly authorized by statute, a political subdivision [city, township, etc] shall not enact or enforce an ordinance or resolution that regulates the ownership or operation of unmanned aircraft or otherwise engage in the regulation of the ownership or operation of unmanned aircraft." So I would hope that saying "no regulation in the operation of unmanned aircraft" means no restrictions on city property. Hopefully some of my fellow Michiganders can chime in with their experiences!

That's interesting. Florida statutes say the exact same thing verbatim. I do remember calling the state parks and recreation line once. I asked if I was allowed to take off and land in the park. They said they had no rule against it at the time. Then, however, he said, maybe I'll bring it up at the next city council meeting. They left the rule the same.