If only there was a little more weight allowance after 250g!

[Robert Prior]

How much do you think this loaded Mini weighs all these accessories mounted on it?

Between 275 and 300 grams.

 

[vindibona1]

Between 275 and 300 grams.

300 grams.
My point is that what the FAA and other aviation organizations should have done was exempted 50 extra grams for safety equipment such as prop guards and strobe lights. The light weight prop guards I have, while not a "cage" blocks exposure to the propellers from the top, bottom, sides, front and rear. They are flexible, so not only do they offer protection from laceration, but spread the area of potential impact and act as shock absorbers. Strobe lights not only help us see our drones but make them more visible to others.

I could compile a list of silly rules and laws that have allowed the rule makers to pat themselves on the back, but have negative unintended consequences that eclipse the good that these regulators think they have accomplished. Nothing happens in isolation or in a vacuum.

As I think about this stuff truth in comedy once again reveals itself from quotes out of "Ghostbusters"...

"You've never been out of college! You don't know what it's like out there! I've WORKED in the private sector. They expect *results*."

"You don't act like a scientist. You're more like a gameshow host."

“Ray, when someone asks you if you’re a God, you say yes!”

 

[Clintoops]

300 grams.
My point is that what the FAA and other aviation organizations should have done was exempted 50 extra grams for safety equipment such as prop guards and strobe lights. The light weight prop guards I have, while not a "cage" blocks exposure to the propellers from the top, bottom, sides, front and rear. They are flexible, so not only do they offer protection from laceration, but spread the area of potential impact and act as shock absorbers. Strobe lights not only help us see our drones but make them more visible to others.

I could compile a list of silly rules and laws that have allowed the rule makers to pat themselves on the back, but have negative unintended consequences that eclipse the good that these regulators think they have accomplished. Nothing happens in isolation or in a vacuum.

As I think about this stuff truth in comedy once again reveals itself from quotes out of "Ghostbusters"...

"You've never been out of college! You don't know what it's like out there! I've WORKED in the private sector. They expect *results*."

"You don't act like a scientist. You're more like a gameshow host."

“Ray, when someone asks you if you’re a God, you say yes!”

Sadly you can't make this up.

 

[MS Coast]

Well now. If the FAA had used 300 grams instead of 250 grams, there would be a similar complaint that the figure should have been 350 grams.

 

[BigAl07]

Well now. If the FAA had used 300 grams instead of 250 grams, there would be a similar complaint that the figure should have been 350 grams.

Exactly!! Or any other weight.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the mass limits based on likely impact energies and perhaps impulse calculations .i.e. 1/2mv^2 and all that?
If correct then yes I can see that deformable prop guards can dissipate energy in collisions in suitable situtations (just as in car crumple zones) but if a drone was travelling in the wrong direction surely they simply add to mass, the energy transfer and or the impulse.
Strobes, whatever their use, simply add to the mass and impact energy.

 

[vindibona1]

Well now. If the FAA had used 300 grams instead of 250 grams, there would be a similar complaint that the figure should have been 350 grams.

Yes... but no.
If there was any wisdom in the rule making they would be able to make exceptions, LIKE THEY ALWAYS DO when they feel provoked to do so. Why will Amazon's drones, with packages and total weight far heavier than 250 grams going to have exceptions to weight restrictions as well as LOS restrictions, not to mention ignoring noise abatement? How much thought would go into evaluating the reasoning before being able to exempt certain safety equipment?

If you look at the current rules they have several "classes" of drones and rules for each class. Does anyone else here feel it odd that the US and EU and other countries use the same 250 gram standard? At least the US has better transmission rules that EU countries.

Speaking of transmission rules, perhaps I'm wrong in my presumption, but I have to assume that the EU's transmission rules are to limit the distance one could fly a drone. It could be they're afraid of transmission interference, but as it has no documented bearing in the US I doubt it could be that. So if, like in the US, they have VLOS rules, why is there a need to squelch the transmission strength?

 

[smashse]

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the mass limits based on likely impact energies and perhaps impulse calculations .i.e. 1/2mv^2 and all that?
If correct then yes I can see that deformable prop guards can dissipate energy in collisions in suitable situtations (just as in car crumple zones) but if a drone was travelling in the wrong direction surely they simply add to mass, the energy transfer and or the impulse.
Strobes, whatever their use, simply add to the mass and impact energy.

Well the kinetic energy requirements only come into play at Cat2. I think someone came up with the notion that an acorn falling from a tree would do pretty much nothing, and a mini drone, has less probability of hurting someone with the props.

Part of the 250g is that the props can be smaller and rotate with less RPM, once you start adding weight, you need more thrust to operate, meaning larger or faster props, which leads to more possibility of harm. But the argument that at some size, it is not going to hurt anyone isn't moot. Now, just because DJI decided to make the mini2 238g before things like prop guards, doesn't mean someone can't or doesn't make a smaller drone, with prop guards, and that is acceptable.

I mean, it's like saying why can't a Lamborghini Aventador race against stock cars in Nascar? It would blow them away is why, it isn't the same class, not even close and doesn't adhere to the weight or engine rules.

I am pretty sure there are some sub100g drones that all set up could be OOP as a cat1, just not a DJI drone. Of course you lose GPS, sensors, etc, but it could fly as a cat1 over people. Like the Fconegy E58. At like 100g, you could keep it under 250 and still use it as a drone. That's what I believe the FAA is saying is a cat1. A Mini2 is WAY more of a drone that that.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

Ok but just a point, Mini prop rpms are around twice that of Mavic 2 props, I think I have seen around 16,000 rpm from a Mini, the attachments below are random choices from my logs.
I can vouch for the fact that strike from mini props do less damage to hand skin = ouch, than strikes from Mavic 2 Pro props = OUCH and Phantom 3 props = oh deary deary me THAT HURTS, I think a P3 strike blackened a nail.

 

[vindibona1]

Ok but just a point, Mini prop rpms are around twice that of Mavic 2 props, I think I have seen around 16,000 rpm from a Mini, random choices from my logs. I can vouch for the fact that strike from mini props do less damage to hand skin = ouch, than strikes from Mavic 2 Pro props = OUCH and Phantom 3 props = oh deary deary me THAT HURTS, I think a P3 strike blackened a nail.

Oh yeah.... I Mini's prop will hurt, but a Mavic 2 prop could take your finger off. The Mavic 2 prop is bigger, thicker, stiffer and more mass.

To get back to the original point, a few added grams of prop guards would disburse energy over a much wider area as well as protecting from lacerations in many if not most cases. Again, 300 grams with prop guards IMO is a heck of a lot safer for people on the ground than 250 grams. We assume that not flying over people insures their safety, but that only assumes that a drone will fall out of the sky straight down. How far vertically could a drone travel it if did not have a complete failure? You will never reduce risk from anything to zero.

 

[BigAl07]

Oh yeah.... I Mini's prop will hurt, but a Mavic 2 prop could take your finger off. The Mavic 2 prop is bigger, thicker, stiffer and more mass.
.....

I've got TWO Real-World experiences that show that a M2P will not remove your average human finger....


(1) I "should" have gotten stitches but the laceration didn't even get to the bone going into the side of my pointer finger....

(2) This one literally bounced/slid up the finger cutting the knuckle and lifting off a "fake" fingernail of my VO.

Both above were a direct strike from a high rpm instance and both caused a LOT of pain and a fair amount of blood (mine) but neither would go to/thru the bone.

 

[dart106]

I agree, I’m just thankful the mini 2 is able to handle a few accessories before it changes to payload mode, would I have added more? Probably haha…. I’d have it looking like a starship eventually with all kinds of stuff mounted on it

When in payload mode, what is different with the mini 2?

 

[Chaosrider]

So near, but yet so far. I understand the calculations that some mathematician made to determine the 250g drone weight limit cutoff that so many countries have adopted. With just a little more weight leeway there would be SO much more flexibility without (IMO) sacrificing an immeasurable percent of safety. I feel fortunate that in the US all I have to do is spend $5 and 10 minutes of time and this becomes a non-issue. But not 100% of the time. I bring this up in light of the new US rules about some circumstances of flying over people that requires a drone to be under 250 grams with features that would prevent lacerations.

It's going to sleet here in a few minutes and so with not much to do between the holidays I thought I'd measure the weight of a reasonable abount of gear loaded on my Mini 2. In the photo below, the Mini 2 has 1) prop guards, 2) leg extensions, 3) lens hood, 4) female velcro on top bottom and rear to accept strobe lights.

How much do you think this loaded Mini weighs all these accessories mounted on it?

View attachment 140832

Initially I only registered one of my Mini-2s, to make sure I could add basic stuff to it without worrying about the 250 gram limit.

I held back registering the other two, not for any particular reason, but just because I didn't realize what was involved in the registration process, and I was wondering about what the "catch" was.

After watching the discussion for a while, I decided there was no catch, and I registered the other two. The 5 bucks is irrelevant, and I just couldn't see any payoff to *NOT* registering them.

Is there one? I'm a Libertarian, so I suppose if someone was really paranoid about the government knowing that they were droning, that might be a reason, but it would be a weird one.

The government knows I have cars and motorcycles, because I register them. They know I have guns because I have a CCW. They know I fly drones because I got my 107.

What's the payoff to not registering?

Thx,

TCS

 

[MA2 317]

What's the payoff to not registering?

Five dollars in your wallet.

.

It's a no brainer to register and you get to display some cool tail numbers on your aircraft.

.

 

[vindibona1]

Initially I only registered one of my Mini-2s, to make sure I could add basic stuff to it without worrying about the 250 gram limit.

I held back registering the other two, not for any particular reason, but just because I didn't realize what was involved in the registration process, and I was wondering about what the "catch" was.

After watching the discussion for a while, I decided there was no catch, and I registered the other two. The 5 bucks is irrelevant, and I just couldn't see any payoff to *NOT* registering them.

Is there one? I'm a Libertarian, so I suppose if someone was really paranoid about the government knowing that they were droning, that might be a reason, but it would be a weird one.

The government knows I have cars and motorcycles, because I register them. They know I have guns because I have a CCW. They know I fly drones because I got my 107.

What's the payoff to not registering?

Thx,

TCS

I don't recall if you're part 107, but if you're not only one registration number is required for as many drones as you own ( I think under 55 pounds). If you hold a 107 cert, then yes each drone must be registered.

 

[Artemis]

When in payload mode, what is different with the mini 2?

Cant speak authoritatively but think both speed and altitude are limited in payload mode

 

[Artemis]

Initially I only registered one of my Mini-2s, to make sure I could add basic stuff to it without worrying about the 250 gram limit.

I held back registering the other two, not for any particular reason, but just because I didn't realize what was involved in the registration process, and I was wondering about what the "catch" was.

After watching the discussion for a while, I decided there was no catch, and I registered the other two. The 5 bucks is irrelevant, and I just couldn't see any payoff to *NOT* registering them.

Is there one? I'm a Libertarian, so I suppose if someone was really paranoid about the government knowing that they were droning, that might be a reason, but it would be a weird one.

The government knows I have cars and motorcycles, because I register them. They know I have guns because I have a CCW. They know I fly drones because I got my 107.

What's the payoff to not registering?

Thx,

TCS

I’m under impression you register once and that number is good for all your drones, not just the one you put in initially

 

[Defens]

I’m under impression you register once and that number is good for all your drones, not just the one you put in initially

That's for drones flying under the recreational exemption (i.e., under a TRUST cert). If you're flying Part 107, each drone gets an individual registration number.

 

[vindibona1]

Ok but just a point, Mini prop rpms are around twice that of Mavic 2 props, I think I have seen around 16,000 rpm from a Mini, the attachments below are random choices from my logs.
I can vouch for the fact that strike from mini props do less damage to hand skin = ouch, than strikes from Mavic 2 Pro props = OUCH and Phantom 3 props = oh deary deary me THAT HURTS, I think a P3 strike blackened a nail.

If we translate all of that to real work outcomes there are other factors involved. 1) The density and stiffness of the Mini2 props don't need to be and are clearly not as stiff as other drone props. They don't need to be as they are lifting less mass. In the Pilot Institute's example, attempting to cause lacerations on various skin-like improvisational material, I think they, without saying, found it futile in most of their attempts to create serious lacerations (or any at all). What they did not attempt to illustrate were any attempts to create lacerations with even the most minimal prop guard attached. Adding a 40gram prop guard will undoubtedly create some protection from lacerations, I would generously speculate in 80%+ of incidental contact. But not only that, again, the added protection from pressure distribution over a larger area, if struck by a "dead" drone falling from the sky would most certainly see the benefits outweigh the disadvantages of being slightly over a 250 gram arbitrary limit. I say arbitrary because the calculation used did not take in most, if any, real world scenarios- as I would be not be available to.

I guess in the US that for a mere registration we can ignore general take-off weight restrictions that other countries have not worked around yet. But the new "flying over people" rule seems quite oddly written, especially as the FAA could have easily exempted 50 extra grams to accommodate safety equipment rather than creating hoops that unnecessarily created restrictions that probably should have been approached differently which causes people skirt rules because they are unreasonable as written. It seems to me that authorities often find it easier to say "no" for no solid reasons rather than try to find ways to say "yes.

 

[lookout]

So I add prop guards which is a payload, which puts me over the weight on a mm because there are no category 1, but it limits the range. So because I have prop guards on over people, and the range is limited, I just have keep flying over people. Brilliant.