If only there was a little more weight allowance after 250g!

[BigAl07]

I think I got confused again…is there an FAA regulation that you have to have prop guards? Or are y’all just speculating of future regulations?

This is in reference to Operating Over People (OOP) which requires the UAS not be able to lacerate skin. Here are the specs of this aspect (for Cat 1)

Ops over People, Category 1:

The PIC must use an aircraft that:

•Weighs less than 250g (.55 lbs.), and
•Contains no “exposed rotating parts that would lacerate human skin upon impact with a human being”.
•There are no manufacturer requirements for Declaration of Compliance. It will be incumbent upon the PIC to make sure the UAS qualifies.
•No sustained flights over open air assemblies w/o RID (concerts, construction sites, etc.).

 

[vindibona1]

I think I got confused again…is there an FAA regulation that you have to have prop guards? Or are y’all just speculating of future regulations?

There are rules that changed in April (2021).

The FAA classifies “flights over people” as any part of the aircraft directly overhead of any part of a human being not protected by a covered stationary object, regardless of the duration of the flight. In an effort to provide more flexibility and operational expansion, the FAA has divided Flights Over People into four categories each with its own operational requirements.

Category 1

• Aircraft weighing .55 pounds or less, including all equipment attached to the aircraft (lights, memory card, propeller guard), at the time of takeoff and throughout the duration of the flight.
• Aircraft must not have any exposed rotating parts that could lacerate skin.
• Aircraft may not fly over any “open-air-assemblies” unless the operation is compliant with Remote ID

Category 2

• Aircraft weight between .55 and 55 pounds, including all equipment attached to the aircraft (lights, memory card, propeller guard), at the time of takeoff and throughout the duration of the flight.
• Aircraft may not cause injury to a person equal or greater to the equivalent of 11 foot-pounds of kinetic energy upon impact from a rigid object.
• Aircraft must not have any exposed rotating parts that could lacerate skin.
• Aircraft may not fly over any “open-air-assemblies” unless the operation is compliant with Remote ID.

Category 3

• Aircraft weight between .55 and 55 pounds, including all equipment attached to the aircraft (lights, memory card, propeller guard), at the time of takeoff and throughout the duration of the flight.
• Aircraft may not cause injury to a person equal or greater to the equivalent of 25 foot-pounds of kinetic energy upon impact from a rigid object.
• Aircraft must not have any exposed rotating parts that could lacerate skin.
• Aircraft may not fly over any “open-air-assemblies”, and fit one of the following scenarios;
  • Operations are conducted in closed or restricted-access sites with all parties on notice of UAV operations, or;
  • The remote pilot does not maintain sustained flight over any people unless those individuals are directly participating in the operation and are protected by a structure or are inside a stationary vehicle.

Category 4

• The aircraft must possess a valid airworthiness certificate issued by the FAA under Part 21, and must be “operated in accordance with the operating limitations specified in the approved Flight Manual or as otherwise specified by the Administrator” and meet additional maintenance requirements.

 

[Artemis]

This is in reference to Operating Over People (OOP) which requires the UAS not be able to lacerate skin. Here are the specs of this aspect (for Cat 1)

Ops over People, Category 1:

The PIC must use an aircraft that:

•Weighs less than 250g (.55 lbs.), and
•Contains no “exposed rotating parts that would lacerate human skin upon impact with a human being”.
•There are no manufacturer requirements for Declaration of Compliance. It will be incumbent upon the PIC to make sure the UAS qualifies.
•No sustained flights over open air assemblies w/o RID (concerts, construction sites, etc.).

Ok, makes sense, no doubt a redesign will be coming then, it would be fun to engineer it, one solution would be to eliminate the arms completely and make the cage the structural support for the motors, antennas etc, center mass likely to decrease also with Elimination of the battery compartment… ie the battery will become the top of the craft again. Smarter to start from scratch instead of trying to make existing design compliant… I’m also sure the cage can be designed to have minimal effect on flight dynamics but there will be a penalty… but can be compensated for by sensors

 

[dronedoc107]

An interesting one

Drone safety system stops props before they cut fingers

If there's one thing that's scary about quadcopter drones – besides their ability to invade peoples' privacy or fall on their heads – it's those fast-spinning and potentially skin-slicing rotor blades. An experimental new system, however, is designed to stop the rotors before they can do any…

newatlas.com

You truly can’t even imagine what the future will hold

 

[jbierling]

MA2 317" data-source="post: 1360765" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Regular prop guards won't pass.

They need to be a cage type guard like this.

You can stick your fingers through that guard too.

I don't think there is any sort of 100% protection for sharp spinning blades that is feasible. Therefore, I'd say any sort of reasonable prop guard that covers the diameter of the rotor would pass.

The Mini for example is unlikely to injure with prop guards without deliberate action on the part of the pilot or someone trying to interfere with the drone. In uncontrolled flight, unless it is a relatively minor upset, the Mini will just shut down and there would be no special danger from the blades.

I would like at least one lightweight battery to be able to at least satisfy Cat 1 in some form. I wish someone would resell the Japanese market batteries here in the USA.

 

[Mazdaman323lx]

You are worried about meeting a roaming FAA official with a calibrated scales ? Seriously ? Some people on here just love to self flagellate themselves with the rules . Just put on the prop guards and be done with it.

 

[BigAl07]

Seriously ? Some people on here just love to self flagellate themselves with the rules .

What a horrible comment to make. Believe it or not, some people actually do go out of their way to operate within the rules & regulations to the best of their ability. Is that such a hard concept to grasp?

You are worried about meeting a roaming FAA official with a calibrated scales ?

No they aren't worried about a "roaming FAA Official" but what if there is some type of incident and your aircraft is then deemed outside of regulations. The penalties and LIABILITIES will just start piling up at that point.

 

[Artemis]

As I stated before, compliance is mostly geared to help or hurt you in a catastrophic event. Driving without a license is a good analogy, hitting someone is a bad day but hitting someone without a license is a worse day. Aside from fines etc, a civil lawsuit for damages or personal injury is where not being compliant would hurt you the most. That’s why I think you should go ahead and pay the 5 dollars no matter what drone you fly

 

[jbierling]

That’s why I think you should go ahead and pay the 5 dollars no matter what drone you fly

That's not what this is about. There is not a single >=250g drone here in the US where it is not against regulations to fly above people, registered or unregistered. The only way to currently comply with regulations is with a (registered) <250g drone.

 

[dronedoc107]

That's not what this is about. There is not a single >=250g drone here in the US where it is not against regulations to fly above people, registered or unregistered. The only way to currently comply with regulations is with a (registered) <250g drone.

I have a registered >250g drone with prop guards that’s totally legal to fly over people.

 

[jbierling]

Not in the US.

I have a registered >250g drone with prop guards that’s totally legal to fly over people.

Not in the US.

See post #42. As of now, there are no Cat 2+ drones.

 

[BigAl07]

I have a registered >250g drone with prop guards that’s totally legal to fly over people.

Not at this time unless you have the following waiver from the FAA:
§ 107.39 – Operation over human beings.

Please cite how you concluded you can fly over people (not associated with the safe operation of the aircraft) right now, 1/6/2022, in the USA with a UAS over 250gr. . . .(you can't right now).

Here are some pertinent notes about OOP:

Ops over People (OOP):

There are 4 categories of OOP.

Ops over People, Category 1:

• The PIC must use an aircraft that:
• 
  
• Weighs less than 250g (.55 lbs.), and
• 
  
• Contains no “exposed rotating parts that would lacerate human skin upon impact with a human being”.
• 
  
• There are no manufacturer requirements for Declaration of Compliance. It will be incumbent upon the PIC to make sure the UAS qualifies.
• 
  
• No sustained flights over open air assemblies w/o RID (concerts, construction sites, etc.).
• 
  
• Goes into effect on 4/21/21.
• 
  
• No flights over open-air assemblies w/o RID.

Ops over People, Category 2:

The PIC must use an aircraft that:

• Possesses a Declaration of Compliance.
• 
  
• Does not transfer more than 11 ft/lbs of KE.
• 
  
• Has no rotating parts that lacerate skin.
• 
  
• Does not contain any safety defects.
• 
  
• No sustained flights over open air assemblies w/o RID (concerts, construction sites, etc.).

Ops over People, Category 2 Timeline:

• Implementation date is dependent on when manufacturers can get their Declaration of Compliance approved.
• 
  
• They can start submitting them 9-12 months after 4/16/21.
• 
  
• Labeled as such.
• 
  
• Maintained records & instructions.

Ops over People, Category 3:

• The PIC must use an aircraft that:
• 
  
• Possesses a Declaration of Compliance.
• 
  
• Does not transfer more than 25 ft/lbs of KE.
• 
  
• Has no rotating parts that lacerate skin.
• 
  
• Does not contain any safety defects.
• 
  
• Labeled as such.
• 
  
• Maintained records & instructions, and
• 
  
• The PIC may not fly above open air assemblies.
• 
  
• May only operate over people if:
• 
  
• On a closed-site with notice given, or
• 
  
• If person is directly part of the operation, or
• 
  
• Under shelter or stationary vehicle.
• 
  
• There is no RID requirement for this category.

Ops over People, Category 3 Timeline:

• Implementation date is dependent on when manufacturers can get their Declaration of Compliance approved.
• 
  
• They can start submitting them 9-12 months after 4/16/21

Ops over People, Category 4:

• The PIC must use an aircraft that:
• 
  
• Possesses a Part 21 Airworthiness Certificate.
• 
  
• Operated within the Flight Manual.
• 
  
• Be RID compliant.
• 
  
• Have very detailed records.
• 
  
• Have all records accessible by the FAA and/or NTSB.

Ops over People, Category 4 Timeline:

• Implementation date is dependent on when manufacturers can get their Airworthiness Certificate approved.
• 
  
• They can start submitting them 6-12 months after 4/16/21

 

[dronedoc107]

Not in the US.

Not in the US.

See post #42. As of now, there are no Cat 2+ drones.

Correction
Thought we were talking sub 250 still…

I have a registered <250g drone with prop guards that’s totally legal to fly over people.

 

[MiniBomber]

Not guessing, but I think I could see a market for helium-filled prop guards!

That brings up another great idea... Would it be legal (<250g) if there was such a thing?

 

[MiniBomber]

Sorry about the double post above about the helium-filled guards. I hadn't logged in so it wouldn't post and then I didn't see the post afterwards....
Anyway, would something like that actually work, could weight be added if it could be offset again below the 250g weight?

 

[MS Coast]

You are worried about meeting a roaming FAA official with a calibrated scales ? Seriously ? Some people on here just love to self flagellate themselves with the rules . Just put on the prop guards and be done with it.

Do you encourage airline pilots and surgeons to think that way about good practices and rules, too?

 

[SethB]

According to modern safety culture principles in industry:

There are no “accidents”. There are only unsafe practices that sometimes lead to catastrophic results.

The fact that an unsafe practice didn’t lead to bad results 999 times is no excuse on the 1000th time when it did.

At a previous job I worked on many industrial/manufacturing safety training courses and films. Practicing this one thing has prevented uncounted numbers of deaths and injuries. It’s made me a big believer in safety culture.

 

[Clintoops]

When I was flying a Quick Silver Mx. The weight limit was 254 pound's . If we installed safety equipment then we could subtract the weight of the safety equipment. It's not with the drones.

 

[Mazdaman323lx]

Do you encourage airline pilots and surgeons to think that way about good practices and rules, too?

If it gets the job done , yes.

 

[BigAl07]

If it gets the job done , yes.

That's gets people killed... pretty much the opposite of what we strive for in Aviation.