If you like pushing it to the limit and fly higher, faster and farther than the law permits, just because you can… think again

[ac0j]

Most light aircraft fly below 10,000 feet, many between 1500-2000 feet. Of those that do elect to fly above 10000, most do not repack 10k until far more than 5 miles after takeoff. Nearly all approaches, including large turbojet aircraft are FAR below 10k within 5 miles.

How about helicopters? They frequently fly relatively low. A tail rotor strike with a drone could cause serious damage, as could one through the windscreen.

The airspace below 2000 is not YOUR airspace, it is part of the National Airspace System and belongs to everyone. It’s imperative that all users follow the rules.

Although there have been no known crashes because of a drone incident, are you prepared to pay for the damage if your drone in ingested into an engine?

I am guessing we have a real pilot here. Because it is the same old dance.
The FAA decides to declare toys as "aircraft" just so they can make rules about things that basically have never happened, or even proved to be a real threat.
Manned aircraft are supposed to be above 500 feet or 1000 feet above population. UNLESS taking off or landing, or over unoccupied water. THAT is their "share" of the national airspace. It should be illegal for helicopters too, Unless in emergency cases. BECAUSE, they now have to share a little more of OUR airspace. Thanks to the FAA, a Mavic is an aircraft, JUST like your cessna.
Below 400' is for model aircraft, kites, balloons, and birds. If a plane or Helo hits a drone above 500' its the drone pilots fault, but as far as I am concerned, it should be if a plane or helo hits a drone UNDER 500', not within 5 miles of an airport, it should be the Pilot of the PLANE or HELO at fault.

 

[Chip]

This latest aeroscope vid is a hoot. Guy says that device gives law enforcement the drone ID# and that law enforcement may ask DJI to match the # with a name, if there is an arrest. Make logical sense? DJI has now insinuated itself into US law enforcement, what could possibly go wrong?

 

[lolo780]

Offline activate your aircraft. AC identifier is stored on the flight control board.

jezzab/DUMLdore

 

[Tesadorn]

Offline activate your aircraft. AC identifier is stored on the flight control board.

jezzab/DUMLdore

Really... I did not know that.. I thought it was on the mainboard....

 

[lolo780]

Really... I did not know that.. I thought it was on the mainboard....

It's the same on the P4P, the flight control board with SD card is small and easily replaced.
The old DJI Assistant can be modified to enable debug and factory test modes.

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[Sportking]

...and guns, don't forget guns.

Drones don't kill people, people kill people!

 

[787steve]

Point one, nobody gets to tell me what I can say, whom I can praise or what I find praiseworthy. Point two, this is EXACTLY what I was talking about on the other thread. This elitist, "as a part 107 pilot" or "as a private pilot" preface to your opinion somehow makes it more valid than anyone else's. Get over yourself. A toy drone coming into contact with a commercial airliner is a ridiculous concern. Exactly how long are jets flying under 1600 feet? (The max height of a Mavic or any DJI consumer drone) Is it beyond 5 miles? No? Problem solved. How high do light aircraft typically fly? 10,000 feet? Do they achieve this height within 5 miles of an airport? They do? Do they typically fly below 1600 feet? They don't? Then what is everyone so worried about? I understand there can be rare occasions when aircraft may be below those numbers but it's hardly the norm, is it? Stay above 2000 feet and I can all but guarantee your safety. In my opinion, it's the private pilots that need to stay out of our airspace from now on.

I don't understand your question of how commercial jets are flying under 1600'. And is it beyond 5 miles?

 

[LakeTravis]

None of this discussion makes any difference. No matter what you do or how you fly your own drone, the inability or unwillingness of others to comply with commonsense guidelines is (and will continue) changing the regulations that apply to the hobby/profession. The best example of this is the neverending sharing of methods for exceeding altitude restrictions and UAV identification, etc.

 

[Tesadorn]

None of this discussion makes any difference. No matter what you do or how you fly your own drone, the inability or unwillingness of others to comply with commonsense guidelines is (and will continue) changing the regulations that apply to the hobby/profession. The best example of this is the neverending sharing of methods for exceeding altitude restrictions and UAV identification, etc.

This will happen regardless... Most drone pilots DO follow the rules... Just because we (freedom loving people) do not want to be tracked does not mean we fly over babies @ 3 feet everyday!

 

[787steve]

Oh really? Because too many of you pilots act as if you own the airspace personally.

I get out of the way of any aircraft so that's not my point.

There's no known contact because it's next to impossible. Regardless of the exact numbers, you're not gonna convince me that airliners aren't over 1600 feet AGL within 5 miles of the airport. If you're gonna cite the extreme exceptions to try and prove your point. I guess there's nothing to discuss. I'm taking about the day to day situations most of us encounter flying our drones. I don't fly anywhere near airports anyway...

In an earlier post you said that the private pilots seem to think their posts have more validity. Then you went on to prove why that is so. You made a series of statements regarding how manned aircraft operate, and they were ALL GROSSLY INACCURATE.
IF you could find a copy of nearly any ILS approach, you will find the outer marker (the point over the ground where the aircraft intercepts the glideslope) to be approximately 5 miles from the airport and 1500' above the airport elevation. That provides a three degree glideslope for the approach. Aircraft most often fly level at this altitude until they intercept the glideslope. Therefore they are at 1500' above the airport (and frequently less than 1500' AGL) on nearly every approach at more than 5 miles from the boundary of the airport. It is not the extreme exception. It is the norm.

A quick google search will show that the most common light aircraft in the US is the Cessna 172. Look up the performance figures and you will see a rate of climb of 645 fpm. And a cruise speed of 115 knots. So it goes about two miles per minute and would take 15 :30 to get to 10,000. So your "How high do light aircraft typically fly? 10,000 feet? Do they achieve this height within 5 miles of an airport? They do? " is grossly off the mark. In fact, the figures show that the most common light aircraft in the US would not reach 10,000' above it's takeoff elevation until approximately 30 miles from takeoff. And that is optimal. With extra people and bags, it could slow the climb considerably. Your five mile statement was off by 25 miles.

Also, light aircraft seldom fly over 10,000'. To exceed 10,000' the pilot has to be on oxygen. Most light civil aircraft fly between 2'000 and 6000'.

I have seen your posts before, and I fully expect you to, somehow, fashion a reply that the your misstated facts don't matter, and your errors were not errors. I am not trying to convince you, I am trying to correct you. I am posting this for the benefit of members who read posts to educate themselves. They should know that your statements of how manned aircraft operate have no relationships to the real world. If they want to know the real world facts of how manned aircraft operate and the true concerns with drone/manned aircraft conflict and coordination, drone pilots with private pilot licenses do have more valid input to offer.

I know you say you fly safe. I trust you in that. But your highly inaccurate posts could lead people to feel there are no dangers, where the do exist. They need to be corrected for the sake of the community.
Fly safe.

 

[LakeTravis]

This will happen regardless... Most drone pilots DO follow the rules... Just because we (freedom loving people) do not want to be tracked does not mean we fly over babies @ 3 feet everyday!

I'm a freedom loving person too and I agree, most people fly safely. It's the one out of a thousand that's going to ruin it for everyone else.

 

[ac0j]

In an earlier post you said that the private pilots seem to think their posts have more validity. Then you went on to prove why that is so. You made a series of statements regarding how manned aircraft operate, and they were ALL GROSSLY INACCURATE.
IF you could find a copy of nearly any ILS approach, you will find the outer marker (the point over the ground where the aircraft intercepts the glideslope) to be approximately 5 miles from the airport and 1500' above the airport elevation. That provides a three degree glideslope for the approach. Aircraft most often fly level at this altitude until they intercept the glideslope. Therefore they are at 1500' above the airport (and frequently less than 1500' AGL) on nearly every approach at more than 5 miles from the boundary of the airport. It is not the extreme exception. It is the norm.

A quick google search will show that the most common light aircraft in the US is the Cessna 172. Look up the performance figures and you will see a rate of climb of 645 fpm. And a cruise speed of 115 knots. So it goes about two miles per minute and would take 15 :30 to get to 10,000. So your "How high do light aircraft typically fly? 10,000 feet? Do they achieve this height within 5 miles of an airport? They do? " is grossly off the mark. In fact, the figures show that the most common light aircraft in the US would not reach 10,000' above it's takeoff elevation until approximately 30 miles from takeoff. And that is optimal. With extra people and bags, it could slow the climb considerably. Your five mile statement was off by 25 miles.

Also, light aircraft seldom fly over 10,000'. To exceed 10,000' the pilot has to be on oxygen. Most light civil aircraft fly between 2'000 and 6000'.

I have seen your posts before, and I fully expect you to, somehow, fashion a reply that the your misstated facts don't matter, and your errors were not errors. I am not trying to convince you, I am trying to correct you. I am posting this for the benefit of members who read posts to educate themselves. They should know that your statements of how manned aircraft operate have no relationships to the real world. If they want to know the real world facts of how manned aircraft operate and the true concerns with drone/manned aircraft conflict and coordination, drone pilots with private pilot licenses do have more valid input to offer.

I know you say you fly safe. I trust you in that. But your highly inaccurate posts could lead people to feel there are no dangers, where the do exist. They need to be corrected for the sake of the community.
Fly safe.

I think you may have misunderstood lons post Steve, He was implying that commercial will almost never be below 1600' when MORE than 5 miles from an airport.

 

[Tesadorn]

I'm a freedom loving person too and I agree, most people fly safely. It's the one out of a thousand that's going to ruin it for everyone else.

That's going to happen anyway.. One out of X will do something stupid... With or without rules or regulations... You really think stricter rules will stop people from doing stupid things? HMMMM.
That's been my point this ENTIRE thread.. Its kinda hard to take the stupid out of some people...

 

[Drgnfli]

Not wishing to go too far off piste but looking at the stats I can find there are approximately 10000 dui deaths p/y in the US against 33000 gun related deaths (or 11.52 gun related deaths per 100000). Year of stats 2013.

In the UK where guns are incredibly limited the death rate is 0.23 per 100000. Now I know there is always a danger of linking correlation to causation but I somewhat suspect that the fact that hardly anyone in the UK has a gun is somehow linked to the fact that hardly anyone is killed by one.

Yep! But now the UK is making knives illegal - what next?

 

[Tesadorn]

Yep! But now the UK is making knives illegal - what next?

Full control?

 

[787steve]

I think you may have misunderstood lons post Steve, He was implying that commercial will almost never be below 1600' when MORE than 5 miles from an airport.

Thanks, but I understood that. The fact is that more often than not, ATC has you descend to the glide slope intercept altitude as early as ten miles from the airport. That altitude is almost always 1500’ above the runway elevation. You then descend from that altitude when you intercept the glide slope at the marker. So you are USUALLY 1500’ above the runway outside of the 5 mile point. And if the terrain iutside the FAF is higher than the runway elevation, you may be well below 1500 AGL.
The point I was trying to make was that if you want to know how manned aircraft operate, listen to someone with logged pilot time and don’t take info from someone who has never piloted an aircraft and who pthinks licensed pilots are being “elitist” because they stated their qualifications. That would be like trying to figure out street crossing laws by just talking to pedestrians who have never driven a car. A more informed opinion would be had by listening t individuals who have filled both roles.

 

[ac0j]

Thanks, but I understood that. The fact is that more often than not, ATC has you descend to the glide slope intercept altitude as early as ten miles from the airport. That altitude is almost always 1500’ above the runway elevation. You then descend from that altitude when you intercept the glide slope at the marker. So you are USUALLY 1500’ above the runway outside of the 5 mile point. And if the terrain iutside the FAF is higher than the runway elevation, you may be well below 1500 AGL.
The point I was trying to make was that if you want to know how manned aircraft operate, listen to someone with logged pilot time and don’t take info from someone who has never piloted an aircraft and who pthinks licensed pilots are being “elitist” because they stated their qualifications. That would be like trying to figure out street crossing laws by just talking to pedestrians who have never driven a car. A more informed opinion would be had by listening t individuals who have filled both roles.

Fair enough inside glideslopes where drones aren’t allowed anyway.

 

[787steve]

Fair enough inside glideslopes where drones aren’t allowed anyway.

You aren't quite understanding what I am trying to communicate.
Basics. Pilots of manned aircraft have a large body of info that they need to be familiar with. One is the UNITED STATES STANDARD for Terminal Instrumrnt Procedures. ( TERPS). This sets up, in tiresome detail, how instrument approach procedures are designed.
If you google It and look at go to Chapter 2, Paragraph 242, you will find that the Final Approach Fix (FAF) is approximately 5 miles from touchdown. The Intermediate approach segment can be 10 miles in length PRIOR to the FAF. The minimum obstacle clearance in that section ( from 5 to 15 miles from the airport) is 500'. This is because land elevation and structures are often higher than the airport. In many, many cases it is simply due to rising terrain. So, it is quite possible that an aircraft could be 15 miles from an airport at 500' AGL legally and by design.

Many on this board seem to think the reason for the 400 foot recommendation is just to dump on us lowly droners. If you even read a few pages of the TERPS you will realize they aren't trying to kill anyone's fun. It is an exhaustive attempt to keep people alive. I doubt that anyone who reads this board and is not a licensed pilot ( as well as many of the less experienced pilots) have ever heard of TERPS. There is no reason they should have. That is another reason to give a bit more credibility to the licensed aircraft pilots who post here.
Fly Safe