Is DJI 100W Battery Charging Hub worth it?

[dji30t]

I have 3 M3 batteries I charge in the car with 60w hub and usb-c charger to M3 usb-c slot. I was wondering how much faster
the 100W Battery Charging Hub (with 100w charger) can charge 30% battery to full. I have 150w Anker 747 GaNPrime charger
but use it to charge other devices so would need to get pure 100w from DJI charger for max charge speed.

Thanks.

 

[DARKSeifer]

I don't have a 100W charger to test, but if they accept 100W you'll lose several life cycles by charging them at that rate.

60 to 90 minutes charge is what you should aim for, less than that and the damage to the battery increases exponentially. For the M3 batteries, 60/65W per battery is the optimal power input. I have three 60W chargers (the one that came and two more) to charge the three batteries simultaneously on individual USBC battery adaptors.

The faster you charge/discharge the battery, the sooner it dies, so aiming for longevity you don't want to stress the batteries during flight (avoid windy days, flying on sport mode, etc), and you want to charge them slowly with a 20W charger or similar.

 

[solidhouse]

I have both the 100w hub with the enterprise kit and the 65w with the M3 fly more kit.

I’ve had batteries charging from exactly 60% - 100% in both hubs side by side. They both finished within a few minutes of each other.

I’m not seeing substantially faster charging times with the 100w compared to the 65w charging hub. Both have a 100w power supply going to them.

 

[dji30t]

Thanks, DarkSeifer and solidhouse. Guess I will have to buy 2 more batteries for a total of 5. Wish there was a M3 charger that would simultaneously charge all the batteries at a lower wattage like the Hanatora Air 2 Mavic charger I have. Does anyone vouch for this Hanatora M3 parallel charger:

https://www.amazon.com/Hanatora-Display-Parallel-Charging-Accessories/dp/B09NR7HSK4

 

[moldorf]

Thanks, DarkSeifer and solidhouse. Guess I will have to buy 2 more batteries for a total of 5. Wish there was a M3 charger that would simultaneously charge all the batteries at a lower wattage like the Hanatora Air 2 Mavic charger I have. Does anyone vouch for this Hanatora M3 parallel charger:

https://www.amazon.com/Hanatora-Display-Parallel-Charging-Accessories/dp/B09NR7HSK4

why would DJI distribute their own chargers that damage their own batteries? I guess there's a cynical answer to that. But from everything I've read it sure seems that all the alarm about too-fast charging is way over-stated

the argument about charging damage seems directly linked to battery overheating during fast charging. But my experience has been that DJI batteries are much hotter during operation in the drone than during charging

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I have both the 100w hub with the enterprise kit and the 65w with the M3 fly more kit.

Interesting, that's a DJI 100w hub for the enterprise ?
If so, maybe it's ok to use all the time if supplied for the same batteries.

why would DJI distribute their own chargers that damage their own batteries? I guess there's a cynical answer to that. But from everything I've read it sure seems that all the alarm about too-fast charging is way over-stated

Maybe the Enterprise batteries are envisaged to NEED faster charging on site in a business type use ?
If so, DJI might feel sacrificing battery lifespan long term vs ease of keeping an Enterprise drone working is worth it ?

 

[moldorf]

Interesting, that's a DJI 100w hub for the enterprise ?
If so, maybe it's ok to use all the time if supplied for the same batteries.




Maybe the Enterprise batteries are envisaged to NEED faster charging on site in a business type use ?
If so, DJI might feel sacrificing battery lifespan long term vs ease of keeping an Enterprise drone working is worth it ?

here's what I understand (it might be incorrect):

the M3 batteries are 'intelligent' batteries. The batteries themselves control the charging rate depending on the supply. They are not going to have a ceiling of 65W and then accept 150W of input power and the resulting overheating damage.

the Mavic 3 battery supports two fast charging protocols. One is the USB PD 3.0 (USB Power Delivery revision 3); the other is PPS (Programmable Power Supply)

PD 3.0 supports 65W of input power...which the DJI 65W charger delivers
PPS supports up to 88W of input power...which the charging hub delivers. The battery itself caps the input power at 88W even though it's a 100W charger

I have yet to see anybody provide evidence that these newer LiPo intelligent batteries have their lives extended in any significant fashion by slow charging. That's not to say there is no evidence, just that I haven't seen it. What I have seen is assertions based upon data from 10-20 years ago on batteries with earlier technologies

edit: wanted to add another point. What might damage a battery is exceeding the charging voltage limit of the battery. The Mavic 3's battery has a charging voltage limit of 17.6 volts. So, if you're worried about potential damage, you'd want to be sure that any charger, or more specifically the charging port, didn't exceed that voltage limit

 

[Cosmo0g]

Thanks, DarkSeifer and solidhouse. Guess I will have to buy 2 more batteries for a total of 5. Wish there was a M3 charger that would simultaneously charge all the batteries at a lower wattage like the Hanatora Air 2 Mavic charger I have. Does anyone vouch for this Hanatora M3 parallel charger:

https://www.amazon.com/Hanatora-Display-Parallel-Charging-Accessories/dp/B09NR7HSK4

The one you linked only puts out 2 amps to each battery. It is slow. The one on the right in the photo puts out 4 amps to each battery. So, I can charge all 3 batteries in about 90 minutes.

 

[Anthony Ivory]

Thanks, DarkSeifer and solidhouse. Guess I will have to buy 2 more batteries for a total of 5. Wish there was a M3 charger that would simultaneously charge all the batteries at a lower wattage like the Hanatora Air 2 Mavic charger I have. Does anyone vouch for this Hanatora M3 parallel charger:

https://www.amazon.com/Hanatora-Display-Parallel-Charging-Accessories/dp/B09NR7HSK4

Search the FORM for a review of the Hanatora LCD Battery Charger for DJI Mavic 3 . It charges 3 batteries plus accessories at the same time and its cheaper.

 

[Anthony Ivory]

why would DJI distribute their own chargers that damage their own batteries? I guess there's a cynical answer to that. But from everything I've read it sure seems that all the alarm about too-fast charging is way over-stated

the argument about charging damage seems directly linked to battery overheating during fast charging. But my experience has been that DJI batteries are much hotter during operation in the drone than during charging

I brought on due to several people recommending it. I’m traveling out of the country for a while so I don’t know how good it is. Price wise it’s a great deal $70? I like that it charges ALL three batteries at the same time not just in sequence. It also has a switch that allows you to charge it to storage level. Nice battery condition gages also.

 

[DARKSeifer]

why would DJI distribute their own chargers that damage their own batteries? I guess there's a cynical answer to that. But from everything I've read it sure seems that all the alarm about too-fast charging is way over-stated

the argument about charging damage seems directly linked to battery overheating during fast charging. But my experience has been that DJI batteries are much hotter during operation in the drone than during charging

It's not damage, it's life expectancy.

Any battery (Li-ion, Li-po, NiMh, etc), the faster you charge/discharge, the sooner it dies. More amps = less life.

Charge slow/discharge slow (avoid sport mode, high wind days) and it may last 300+ cycles. Charge fast and always fly in sport, and you'll be around 200+ cycles.

So you must find a balance between durability, flight performance, and charge rate. The M3 batteries flight time is around 30 mins, so if you have three batteries, there's not really a reason to push the charge rate.

PS: Sequential charge is a crap, on Amazon there are plenty of options to charge the batts at the same time, I'd recommend picking two or three of these Lyongtech or any similar with USB-C compatibility, so you can charge them with any powerbank/wall charger available.




Don't pick chargers that don't have USB-C input or you'll have to get AC powerbanks to charge them on the field, which are bulkier and more expensive.

Powerbanks are way cheaper than additional batteries, so o three of these, three batts, and some powerbanks capable of delivering 30W or more, and you can fly all day on the field.

 

[moldorf]

It's not damage, it's life expectancy.

Any battery (Li-ion, Li-po, NiMh, etc), the faster you charge/discharge, the sooner it dies. More amps = less life.

Charge slow/discharge slow (avoid sport mode, high wind days) and it may last 300+ cycles. Charge fast and always fly in sport, and you'll be around 200+ cycles.

that sounds plausible, but without any data, especially any proven gauges of what constitutes "fast charge" and "slow charge", it also sounds like more theory than fact

here's another theory: the life expectancy of a battery is reduced by higher temperatures. I have felt the Mini 3 and Mavic 3 batteries during charging, at the completion of charging, and right after landing from long flights. The batteries are always the hottest after flying; they are much cooler during charging. Meaning that operating the batteries for the intended purpose of powering the drone is the quickest way to reduce battery life vs simply re-charging

I know there is the 'old' 40/80 rule for battery health: don't discharge below 40% or charge over 80%. But that's why the BMS of a DJI battery reduces charging rate (voltage) over the last 20% (approximate) of it's charging cycle.

not trying to be argumentative here but I'm pretty skeptical of your 300 cycle vs 200 cycle example. I can accept that there might be a reduction in number of cycles if every charging cycle was at the maximum allowed voltage for a battery. Probably half of my charging is done off of 12 volt systems (vehicles & RV) OR power packs, and the max I get from those charging stations is 30-45W on 10-15 volts. IIRC, the Mavic 3 battery caps it's charging input at 88W and 17.6V. So, another of my theories is that for myself, most of my charging is quite a bit slower than the max. And I'd suspect that's true of most people

I don't fly every day. Maybe on average, a couple of times a week. Call it 120 times a year (and that's a very high estimate considering, due to weather, I've only flown once in the last 2 weeks)). I have 4 Mavic 3 batteries and I am pretty diligent about rotating their operational usage. So, a single battery might, at the most, power 30 flights a year, likely less. If I adjust your low cycle total of 200 cycles before failure up to 240 cycles, that would mean a battery would last 8-10 years. Will I even be flying a Mavic 3 in 2032?

which I think points out the difference between the theory of slow charging vs the practical impact of faster charging. My estimation is that the practical impact of faster charging won't be noticed because the life of a battery will likely exceed the practical life of a drone (unless you have only a couple of batteries and fly 250 days in a year or you have a Youtube channel)

 

[DARKSeifer]

Sadly, batteries have "expiration date" so no matter how well you treat them, they won't last 10 years.

There's plenty of info on how Lipos and other rechargeable batteries destroy over time, specially now that everyone has a PDA glued to their hand.

While lots of things affect, the main killing long term factor of drone intelligent batteries is the charge/dsicharge rate, as opposed to batteries used in most devices, drone batteries deliver all their charge in little time. The slower the charge rate/discharge rate, the longer the life.

While you can have some control over the discharge rates avoiding sport or days with high winds, you can have total control about the charge rate as you can decide the input power of the charger. Use a 10/20W charger to charge them overnight, and will last longer than charging at 60W on the field.

High temperature on the cells also reduces life expectancy, also over charge/deep discharge and lack of use over time. Intelligent batteries should prevent the overcharge problem, but there can be bugs like the one in the Mini 2 charging hub, that when batteries were left inside self discharge didn't trigger.

The damage you do to the battery doesn't regenerate, once it's done it's done, so if you want the batteries to last as many cycles as possible, within a reasonable use, lowering the charge rate is one of the easiest things to control.

I sold the Air2S with 220-250 cycles on each of the three batteries without major deviations between cells. Although I didn't treat the batteries well at the beginning, I lowered the charge rate by switching to an alternative parallel charger that charged the batteries at the same time, but at lower rate than "default".




The thing is, you only should care about this if you fly every day, but the vast majority of people use their drones just a few hours a year, so batts will die from "old age" anyway even they had little cycles.

I think we've reached the point of diminishing returns with the Mavic 3, previous drones were meat to last little as huge improvements were still made. I knew the Mini 2 was just a drone to practice, and the Air2S was an in-between drone, same that I'll keep the M3 for a long time. I may pick an FPV in the future, but I'm quite sure the M3 will still be my camera drone in 5 years, unless it has an accident, Just like I kept my Canon 6D for 10 years before switching to the Canon R6.

 

[Anthony Ivory]

Thanks, DarkSeifer and solidhouse. Guess I will have to buy 2 more batteries for a total of 5. Wish there was a M3 charger that would simultaneously charge all the batteries at a lower wattage like the Hanatora Air 2 Mavic charger I have. Does anyone vouch for this Hanatora M3 parallel charger:

https://www.amazon.com/Hanatora-Display-Parallel-Charging-Accessories/dp/B09NR7HSK4

YES I love it . It was only about $70 at Amazon. It charges everything simultaneously. With the gage you have more control of your batteries. I have one for my Mini 3 Pro and one for my MAVIC 3’s. Try it for 30 days and you will never go back.

 

[Droning on and on...]

I have both the 100w hub with the enterprise kit and the 65w with the M3 fly more kit.

I’ve had batteries charging from exactly 60% - 100% in both hubs side by side. They both finished within a few minutes of each other.

The reason for that is they're both spending most of that time in the CV phase of the charge cycle, which will draw an identical, down-ramping power draw.

Charging from 15% would show a significant difference.

 

[Droning on and on...]

I don't have a 100W charger to test, but if they accept 100W you'll lose several life cycles by charging them at that rate.

The faster you charge/discharge the battery, the sooner it dies, so aiming for longevity you don't want to stress the batteries during flight (avoid windy days, flying on sport mode, etc), and you want to charge them slowly with a 20W charger or similar.

Depends on the cells, and what they were designed for.