Is DJI using our WiFi accounts directly?

[Robbyg]

I had a very interesting development last night.

For those who have follow some of my posts you know I am On .400 and using iOS ver 4.04 with a dedicated iphone 6+ in Airplane mode.

I have not switched out of Airplane mode for the last 6 weeks and everything always works the same, but last night was different!

When I ran GO4 4.04 I got a brand new looking message that I needed to update. It was not a forced update message but it filled half my screen and had a slider that was asking me to slide to update.

Now how on earth did my phone with no Sim card in it and no WiFi access suddenly get a new message to make a new prompt. Normally I would not think much about it, maybe it was a count down timer related thing but the timing seems way to coincidental.

I am now wondering if the Mavic is grabbing the wifi username and password from the phone via the App and storing it so that it can connect to the wifi router directly and therefore to DJI servers.

Any thoughts on this because I cannot see how my unconnected Mavic system suddenly knows there is a Shite fit happening at DJI and is prompting me to help them.

Rob

 

[Top Hat]

That really is strange.
Like you said maybe it's a counter thing embedded on the app to trigger @ some point.
I think I saw that 1 time while I was somewhere away, if I remember right I think I just ignored it or cancelled it or force closed the apps and restart.
I am also on FW 400 and App 405 on android AOS 601 airplane mode.

 

[Pathogen]

time bomb is by far and away the most likely explanation. What you could do in theory is MAC restrict your router to remove all doubt.

 

[SRJ_Mavic_PRO]

It's the Russians... blame it on the Russians....

 

[Robbyg]

The Mavic has its own built in WiFi system. All it needs is the Password info to gain access. I think I will take Pathogens advice but first I want to see what happens in my list of connected equipment when I turn on the Mavic setup.

Rob

 

[Robbyg]

It's the Russians... blame it on the Russians....

LOL thats Fake News. It could be some Chinese kid sitting in his parents basement

BTW I Love the silent Treatment from all You VBloggers that come here for info! No new videos for the last two days, I wonder what happened

Rob

 

[SRJ_Mavic_PRO]

Again the Russians... They kidnapped them...

 

[rigor]

That happened to me too after i got my goggles i assumed it came from the goggles as i never connect my phone at all but the mavic was turned on near my wifi when i linked the goggles to the mavic

 

[adiru]

I had a very interesting development last night.

For those who have follow some of my posts you know I am On .400 and using iOS ver 4.04 with a dedicated iphone 6+ in Airplane mode.

I have not switched out of Airplane mode for the last 6 weeks and everything always works the same, but last night was different!

When I ran GO4 4.04 I got a brand new looking message that I needed to update. It was not a forced update message but it filled half my screen and had a slider that was asking me to slide to update.

Now how on earth did my phone with no Sim card in it and no WiFi access suddenly get a new message to make a new prompt. Normally I would not think much about it, maybe it was a count down timer related thing but the timing seems way to coincidental.

I am now wondering if the Mavic is grabbing the wifi username and password from the phone via the App and storing it so that it can connect to the wifi router directly and therefore to DJI servers.

Any thoughts on this because I cannot see how my unconnected Mavic system suddenly knows there is a Shite fit happening at DJI and is prompting me to help them.

Rob

Possible scenario: the dji app steals your ssid / password combo for your home wifi, and transmits it also to be stores on the Mavic. Then whenever it wants, it is able to get out to the Internet and phone home even if you stopped using your phone and fly only with the RC. Then Mavic itself has wifi capabilities and could be connecting directly to the Internet without you knowing. So to be extra safe, you should also change your wifi password for your home residential router. ANd like the other guy said, MAC address block your mavic and your iphone.

 

[adiru]

LOL thats Fake News. It could be some Chinese kid sitting in his parents basement

BTW I Love the silent Treatment from all You VBloggers that come here for info! No new videos for the last two days, I wonder what happened

Rob

LIkely what happened is iJustine, Neistat, and all of them like their free vacations, mavics, sparks, etc

 

[Xcel]

... had a slider that was asking me to slide to update.

Are you sure it wasn't a firmware inconsistency slider. IIRC there is some kind of a vision system bug or battery FW discrepency error between the mavic and the battery running .400. I'm on 400 and I used to get that message way back, even if I swiped the slider and updated (took maybe 1minute to complete) I'd get the same message again a few weeks later. I also fly with a dedicated device in airplane mode. I haven't seen the message in a while now though.

I ask because I've never seen a app update request with a slider. Only ok/ignore buttons on the app update.

 

[delta-101]

Not sure this could be it.. but Go4 does talk to home even without you launching the app, so if you have connected to the internet at all with your phone (even briefly without Go4 running) then it is probable that is has told the app to give that message as of 1st July.. the message is then only activated when you launch the app.
If not, then something else is at play!

 

[Robbyg]

Are you sure it wasn't a firmware inconsistency slider. IIRC there is some kind of a vision system bug or battery FW discrepency error between the mavic and the battery running .400. I'm on 400 and I used to get that message way back, even if I swiped the slider and updated (took maybe 1minute to complete) I'd get the same message again a few weeks later. I also fly with a dedicated device in airplane mode. I haven't seen the message in a while now though.

I ask because I've never seen a app update request with a slider. Only ok/ignore buttons on the app update.

Yep I am sure. I have never seen this message before. It was almost liked the forced update one but it had an option to exit.

Rigor, I have had my goggles for almost a month. I had them connected just two days ago and nothing like this.

BTW I checked the router and did not see any new connections when I powered up the Mavic and the remote. On the other hand the message did not appear again! Is DJI just throwing ***** out and hoping that bits of it stick to a few people. I think a newbie would have probably just updated and that would be one less customer for DJI to worry about.

Adiru, I think that there is a high probability that they monitor the wifi bands for such info. I had another piece of hardware do the same thing when I was using a VPN. It took me two days to realize that it was looking at my neighbors WiFi and using it to verify my location. Once I wrapped the WiFi antenna in a bit of foil to limit it's ability to receive distant signals the VPN worked fine.

Rob

 

[Robbyg]

LIkely what happened is iJustine, Neistat, and all of them like their free vacations, mavics, sparks, etc

Yeah I wonder if Billy, Ed, Iphonedo, Dragon and drone valley joined them.

Rob

 

[Pathogen]

Given the recent revelations that smart TV's spy on people at home, even if the TV is off, we should be wary of this sort of thing, but it would truly be next level if DJI is logging into your router directly without permission. That is class action lawsuit material and I doubt DJI would be that foolish. It is within the realm of possibility of course.

 

[rigor]

I Also have my p3p in lockdown too and last year i flew above my house to take some photos as i was putting it up for sale and i got a few strange messages when i went out of the range of wifi signal so the phantom must have been connected my ipad has always been in airplane mode

 

[adiru]

Given the recent revelations that smart TV's spy on people at home, even if the TV is off, we should be wary of this sort of thing, but it would truly be next level if DJI is logging into your router directly without permission. That is class action lawsuit material and I doubt DJI would be that foolish. It is within the realm of possibility of course.

One possibility is the Mavic may attempt to phone home to DJI for any emergency action messages whenever it comes within range of any open wifi.... or maybe it uses its radio to communicate directly with cell towers

 

[gnirtS]

No idea how ios works but android its fairly simple. There is no concept of "closed" apps. Just have a look at running processes and you'll see hooks for all kinds of apps you have installed but haven't used for days or weeks. Bits of them run in the background.
So if the thing is connected to wifi or LTE at all, even without specifically running DJI Go then the app could get updates from the remote server and know theres a newer version. It'll then flag it the next time its run as foreground.

No need for anything sinister - its how the OS is designed.

 

[adiru]

No idea how ios works but android its fairly simple. There is no concept of "closed" apps. Just have a look at running processes and you'll see hooks for all kinds of apps you have installed but haven't used for days or weeks. Bits of them run in the background.
So if the thing is connected to wifi or LTE at all, even without specifically running DJI Go then the app could get updates from the remote server and know theres a newer version. It'll then flag it the next time its run as foreground.

No need for anything sinister - its how the OS is designed.

Rob the OP stated that his phone didn't have a sim card and he didn't connect it to Wifi. But I think it is more than that...

Someone recently stated that the Mavic may have a small LTE communication chip. If there is a chip on all Mavic's that can do LTE comm then that means it is possible in theory that DJI could send a kill signal via cell towers to remotely deactivate/kill/lock down all Mavic's until the firmware was updated to whatever version or date that DJI specifies. Intel used to have an Anti-Theft method whereby they embedded a tiny 3G chip as a SOC into Intel CPU's, and when the desktop or laptop as stolen, Intel sent a poison pill aka kill signal remotely to the CPU, completely out of band, via 3G, even when the computer wasn't connected to any Internet or network, it would kill the CPU. If DJI embedded a LTE chip in all Mavic's they must have been thinking about a scenario like this, that one day if something got out of hand, they could force all Mavic's to update to latest locked down firmware or else the Mavic's are all grounded, bricked, paperweight.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/d...ta-with-intel-anti-theft-technology-brief.pdf

Remember their whitepaper last Spring? They stated they already had the ability to have all drones broadcast in real time all flight ID and parameters and flight data using EXISTING radio communication links on the Mavic, it would NOT require any new hardware or firmware at all. All they have to do is activate it. I'm thinking the LTE communication backchannel out of band functionality is how they plan on flipping the switch when the time is right.

DJI proposed an electronic identification framework for UAS that would allow authorities in the United States to identify drone owners

Dropbox - DJI Remote Identification Whitepaper 3-22-17.pdf

 

[gnirtS]

Other than it would break countless telecommunication laws and regulator approvals, lacks a sim card, lacks any form of application for it and the vast majority of the planet lacks LTE coverage.
This is getting into tinfoil hat territory. The mavic is a small piece of gear. Its been disassembled, broken apart, stuck on spectrum analysers. There is no chance of a fanciful technology that doesn't even exist built into it.
Apps talk to the internet when theres a connection. If there isnt one they wait and queue the requests. Its not exactly hard.