Is Geo-fencing and DJI forced compliance a better thing than Autel's lack of geo fencing?

[Sparc343]

Autel does warn the user that they Are in or Near somewhere they don't belong. It just doesn't prevent the pilot from flying. I think its a sound approach that allows the pilot to back away from restricted airspace and allows flight in areas that DJI's map is in error. Many 107 pilots have wasted paid days because they couldn't get DJI to unlock an area they had permission for.

I recognize the potential for abuse but still personally would rather be able to make informed decisions rather than have them made for me.

That just might work for part 107 pilots. I can understand where DJI is coming from for recreational pilots, but it seems like overkill and too restrictive for part 107 pilots. Autel's current method works well in my opinion. As much as I gripe about DJI's geofencing, I do have the option of flying the EVO II instead.

Cheers!

This is *exactly* why I ordered an Autel Evo Nano+ premium bundle, and a Hubsan Zino Mini Pro 128GB extreme bundle today! I will be keeping my Mini 2, but I can only hope there will be changes to this draconian DJI geo-fencing system..!

It's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Sure geofencing can easily cause issues if DJI's data is erroneous, or you can't get fencing unlocked when having necessary authorizations/permits.

But if we have knowledge lacking new pilots, or those who just don't care about rules flying everywhere, we'll fast have bureaucrats and politicians pressing more and tighter regulations.
And that's one very slippery slope.


At least here in Finland DJI has very little areas in their Geo Zone database.
Wouldn't wonder any if in US there are bureaucrats sending what ever claims they want to DJI, considering how eager they're to claim being able to deny drone flying over some area even though FAA is the only one with authority for that.

I was actually thinking about this recently. The problem is (at least here in the US), you must first get LAANC, then unlock with DJI too... This is redundant and leaves the door wide open for inconsistencies (like DJI's NFZ database being NOT accurate/up to date)... I would (think) I would actually be in favor of some kind of regulation that compelled or required drone manufacturers to implement geo-fencing, but on ONE system, across all brands. For this example lets call it DGF (Drone GeoFencing)... So, if they were compelled or required to implement it, all drones (no matter who made it) will use this "DGF system"... THAT system would be controlled/maintained by the governmental agencies (FAA etc) that govern their airspace! No more redundancies and no more inaccuracies...

And that's also what is making it so aggravating, DJI has not been compelled or required to do what they're doing with this geofencing crap, they've decided to do it all one their own. Which is *exactly* what makes it SUCH A MESS...

So either they need to CUT IT OUT... Or them (and other manufacturers) need to be compelled or required into using a universal system... That is ultimately controlled/maintained by entities like the FAA... Even better, LAANC (and any similar necessary approvals for other countries) can be integrated too.

Imagine being able to use any drone from any manufacturer in any geographical location, that may even "automatically" perform tasks such as getting LAANC (or similar), and then automatically allowing you to fly..! Or of course denying your flight if you're in a prohibited or TFR area..!

Now could any such system actually be implemented and work? Heck if I know, I am sure the logistics could be a nightmare... But one can dream right? I'm generally not in favor of "regulation" and I generally support freedom! But I also understand our air-space is an important matter too, especially since I am now using it, and reading and learning more and more about it...

But in the mean-time, anyone who doesn't want to deal with this crap, can simply not buy a DJI... Buy an Autel or a Hubsan or probably many others. Which is another entire argument against this crap from DJI..!

Oh well, even if they all had it, it could still be circumvented (without techy "hacks"), by simply covering the GPS module area of the AC body with aluminum foil..! Or if you were more techy, of course opening it up and de-soldering the GPS unit... Or of course a software/firmware "hack" too... There ARE ways around it, and there ALWAYS will be...

So, WHY has DJI done this @.@ is beyond me...

 

[maelstrom]

Oh well, even if they all had it, it could still be circumvented (without techy "hacks"), by simply covering the GPS module area of the AC body with aluminum foil..! Or if you were more techy, of course opening it up and de-soldering the GPS unit...

But then you'd lose the ability of the drone to RTH in an emergency - how would it know where it took off from?

 

[Sparc343]

But then you'd lose the ability of the drone to RTH in an emergency - how would it know where it took off from?

I suppose sacrifices must be made. I suppose I could also say that, if (properly) flying within VLOS, that really shouldn't be an issue

One of the reasons as a brand new pilot I flew for several weeks as "manually" as I could as I didn't want to learn to become dependent on auto features like RTH. I didn't play with any auto features like RTH or even quick shots until my fourth week in! I almost literally forgot they were there!!!

 

[maelstrom]

I suppose sacrifices must be made. I suppose I could also say that, if (properly) flying within VLOS, that really shouldn't be an issue

I agree in normal circumstances. However, in the unlikely event that your RC fails, you'd be stuffed! The drone could try to go almost anywhere.

 

[iReviewFrozenDinners]

As opposed to Autel's approach, that allows them to remain entirely oblivious to all airspace restrictions and flight rules.

AFAIK it still notifies the user, it just doesn't restrict flight at least in the US.

Any evidence for that?

Only anecdotal. A couple people I've talked to in real life that have flown DJI drones and were completely oblivious of controlled airspace or restrictions and a bunch of people on other social media and in videos that took accepting DJI's prompts as all the authorization that they need. I've seen people specifically say that DJI's app sends something to the FAA to let planes and the nearby airport know where their drone is, which obviously isn't the case. I've corrected similar sentiments online. I think it happens more than you think and I can see why it happens.

At least it makes sure that you have permission.

And I take an issue with that. I already have permission from the FAA and I would rather not jump through extra hoops and be at the mercy of yet another system that is prone to downtime or errors. It is unnecessary.

 

[sar104]

AFAIK it still notifies the user, it just doesn't restrict flight at least in the US.

Only anecdotal. A couple people I've talked to in real life that have flown DJI drones and were completely oblivious of controlled airspace or restrictions and a bunch of people on other social media and in videos that took accepting DJI's prompts as all the authorization that they need. I've seen people specifically say that DJI's app sends something to the FAA to let planes and the nearby airport know where their drone is, which obviously isn't the case. I've corrected similar sentiments online. I think it happens more than you think and I can see why it happens.

And I take an issue with that. I already have permission from the FAA and I would rather not jump through extra hoops and be at the mercy of yet another system that is prone to downtime or errors. It is unnecessary.

Sounds like DJI equipment is just not for you.

 

[Biscuitbeard]

The big problem for me in the UK is that DJI's geofencing doesn't remotely match up with the actual CAA legal flying areas!

There's a bunch of red and blue zones around me that should be completely legal to fly in without any authorisation. Meanwhile an actual no-fly exclusion zone (around a nuclear enrichment plant) is missing, as are other important CAA restrictions. It's a total mess.

 

[tlyons]

I ordered the Autel Nano Plus mainly because I love the camera it has for a sub 249 drone. I also note while I should be receiving mine tomorrow as I ordered it from Autel-Pilot a while back, this Autel apparently does not have geofencing in its units. ...

I fly a Parrot Anafi and have really wanted an Air 2s. I keep hesitating due to the issues you raise. With the Anafi, I check Airmap, get LAANC permission if necessary, then fly. Sure, go bother a beginner with enforced rules but I would prefer to be responsible for myself.

From others who have switched, there is also much complaining about the time it takes to get a DJI drone in the air. Flying in an area I already know, it's maybe 90 seconds from opening the case to in-the-air with the Anafi. It apparently is slower with DJI.

The Autel Nano Plus looks great. I want a 1" (or so) sensor and I am slow to buy anything over 249g given the state of DRI. For me, it's either under 249g and exempt or wait for drones with approved DRI systems to guarantee I won't be trading in my drone next year. The only downside is the pricing - ouch! $950 for the bundle. That is very much Air 2s (with a true 1" sensor) territory.

Another option is the Hubsan Zino Mini Pro. Probably a lower quality experience than Air 2s but half the money and improving with every update. Since I am a hobby flyer, I could perhaps live with a little funkiness.

OTOH, the price/value/features of the Air 2s is very compelling and for now I continue to fly my very nice but short range Anafi.

I hope the Autel works out for you. Good luck.

 

[smashse]

I don't think the DJI geofence does enough to actually be useful which just makes it annoying. I like the "idea" of it, because of all of the people that try to do things the wrong way and in violation of rules. Like the guy who buzzed cops and flew inside a firestation well outside VLOS. But, the problem is, it doesn't really stop that scenario.

So I like the "idea" on the consumer side. On the professional side (and yes I know we are really talking about consumer drones, since this isn't a commercial forum or a Matrice Forum) I don't like it. First, I have my pilot certificate on the line if I fly illegally, second, I have had enough training that I should know better, and third, commercial pilots are asked to fly in areas that other pilots probably shouldn't.

If I had a vote, I'd keep it. I've only been denied flight once, and that was on a trip that I didn't adequately prepare for. For some reason, I thought Ocean Beach in San Diego was a lot further away from San Diego International Airport, but I guess it isn't and I waited too long and didn't have time to request LAANC approval, so I didn't even power on my drone, but I also know it would have stopped me if I tried, which is good. I was mistaken and would have tried to fly, if I hadn't gotten out my laptop and scoped the area the night before, and especially on a consumer drone, many people do not actually check the area before flight.

To me, it is steps required to do a mission. I know what they are, and it isn't like the steps change all the time. I never hear manned aircraft pilots complain about having to do a pre-flight check, or having to unblock the wheels before taxi. It's just steps to accomplish your mission to me.

 

[iReviewFrozenDinners]

Sounds like DJI equipment is just not for you.

Correct.

 

[Hogarth]

My previous two flights this week were done with llanc approval. In both cases, DJI restricted my flights. These two flights are the first time encountering this.

This is after updating the Fly App firmware a few weeks ago. Prior to the update, I had seen the "aircraft entering altitude zone" every time I fly. I hadn't even realized the warning was referencing MY aircraft.

So here I am today, researching this phenomenon. Pushing the stick in one direction, and my UAS flying in a different direction. Because of a DJI zone. Researching DJI approvals. Researching DJI maps.

While studying for the 107, absolutely NOWHERE did I encounter anything about DJI zones and DJI approval licensing.

METAR? Check. NOTAM? Check. ALOFT? Check. LLANC? Check. DJIZONE? Not on my checklist.

I've seen grumblings about these DJI zone restrictions. But without actually encountering them, it was difficult to comprehend. Lots of new lingo, like "geo fencing." It's not related to the Mini-2 batteries I was researching. I'd move on.

So. IF I am to say I approve of this "DJI geo fencing," then yes, slap that ankle bracelet on me. Pull that leash tight. I agree that I am guilty until proven innocent. And grateful for the privilege to hold such an opinion.

In the meantime, where do I check to see if I can drive my Toyota on I-75? Will it stall on the ramp?

 

[Drones.n.Pixels]

Just for curiosity's sake, what would you do if/when the Autel approached the authorisation zone at 396ft? I am assuming this authorisation zone is something legally real and a corridor wall or something similar and not a DJI quirk.

Not flying Autel, but I would manually try to avoid it looking at real maps or fly out of it, also manually. Not necessarily something that DJI will allow you to do once you find youlself IN the zone (according to their inaccurate maps) and your drone stops responding. Don't get me wrong - I have three DJI drones, so I obviously like the products. But certain nanny rules really should go.

 

[Drones.n.Pixels]

But then you'd lose the ability of the drone to RTH in an emergency - how would it know where it took off

I suppose sacrifices must be made. I suppose I could also say that, if (properly) flying within VLOS, that really shouldn't be an issue

One of the reasons as a brand new pilot I flew for several weeks as "manually" as I could as I didn't want to learn to become dependent on auto features like RTH. I didn't play with any auto features like RTH or even quick shots until my fourth week in! I almost literally forgot they were there!!!

You can mod DJI drones (well, at least some of them) to use ATTI mode (no need to cover in tin foil) AND retain the RTH capability when needed?

 

[Frank Dracman]

The other issue with dji geo fencing is it doesn't always jive with the FAA it is often arbitrary. I have been looked in areas that are open to fly. And if your out in the middle of nowhere with no cell service you're screwed.

 

[tlyons]

The other issue with dji geo fencing is it doesn't always jive with the FAA it is often arbitrary. I have been looked in areas that are open to fly. And if your out in the middle of nowhere with no cell service you're screwed.

So I bought a Mini 3 Pro in spite of the geo-fence thing. It's an amazing piece of engineering with some obvious cripple-hammer marks on it. (I am really annoyed with the lack of precise RTH. I literally used it every flight of the Anafi, never mind the safety issue that if the signal is lost there better not be anything within 5m of the takeoff.)

What is surprising is that the FAA allows the geofencing to override the commands of the pilot. That totally blows away the purpose of VLOS: visual contact does not matter in the least if the drone is not following the pilot's commands.

Amazingly arrogant "we know better" attitude to ever have the automation force a take over from human control. Imagine being in one of those "stuck" zones people have described where the return path is block by a NFZ and a manned aircraft approaches. Would your only choice be an emergency power off?