Is the Mini 5 Pro a sub-250g drone?

[Bad Santa]

Yes, but you no longer are legally exempt from RID broadcasting and FAA pilot registration, if you now launch with the 2g strobe attached, as your takeoff weight (the determining factor) now exceeds the maximum of 250g.

Yeah, and I've been known to go 70 in a 55.
I hope there's a point you're making.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Yeah, and I've been known to go 70 in a 55.
I hope there's a point you're making.

The point is that it is legally irrelevant that the drone without the attached 2g strobe still weighs 249 grams, after you add 2g and take off with it mounted.

The only relevant weight to the FAA is the takeoff weight, which is now above 250g. So says the FAA. I'm merely stating the regulation correctly.

Going 75 in a 55 means you are speeding.
Flying with a takeoff weight of 252 grams means you are no longer exempt. Neither are legal, which is the only point.
Complying with the laws is optional, but there are potential consequences if you choose to do whatever you want in violation of them.

 

[MS Coast]

Except there are significant differences between sub 250g and 250g and over. If over 250g, the drone must broadcast RID. If over 250g, you must also register yourself as a pilot, and put your pilot reg number on the drone.

Each one of those is a separate violation with additional maximum cumulative fines. Those are in addition to any other violations like flying VLOS, flying over people, or flying over a restricted area, or launching from a prohibited area.

You also can no longer defer to DJI for your safe harbor exemptions from both of those requirements when over 249.9 grams, as DJI has told you and everyone else that they cannot guarantee it will weigh less than 250g, and they are no longer putting the sub 250g labeling on the regular battery. It's now your responsibility, if over 250g, to fly with a plus battery to broadcast RID, or attach an external RID module, and to register as a pilot with the FAA, and put that number on the outside of the drone.

So, even though it is at most only 4g over, over is over, and true weight is indisputable with an accurately calibrated scale, unlike vehicle speed. An inquiring officer only needs to point to DJI's own statements, use his drug scale and find it over 250g, and seize the drone as evidence, where the true weight is to be determined later with a more accurate device. Much like a breathalyzer test in the field, to be corroborated by a later blood alcohol test, he can rely upon his scale/measurement device to issue a citation and seize the evidence for later prosecution by the FAA.

The safe alternative is to fly a Mini 4 Pro with the regular battery which is guaranteed by DJI to be under 250g.

It's a personal choice. Those that are risk averse should fly the Mini 4 Pro.
Those choosing to fly a M5P are willingly and knowingly assuming the risk, no matter how small or unlikely, unless they can positively indisputably prove their own M5P with their regular battery is under 250g. Based upon all those who have weighed their M5P, they are outside the weight class, as the drones all appear to be "just a few grams" over, not under. The 2 gram speaker and screws inside is the likely culprit!

The extremely simple solution is to register with the FAA for $5/three years and go fly the drone knowing that you are completely legal with respect to weight with strobes and whatever else you attach. I've yet to hear a sensible and valid reason not to register.

 

[mavic3usa]

The extremely simple solution is to register with the FAA for $5/three years and go fly the drone knowing that you are completely legal with respect to weight with strobes and whatever else you attach. I've yet to hear a sensible and valid reason not to register.

When you FAA register the overweight M5P with the standard battery, you don't have any standard RID (thanks to DJI) which means you must attach an external module or you must use the extended battery which triggers the RID in the drone.

 

[MS Coast]

When you FAA register the overweight M5P with the standard battery, you don't have any standard RID (thanks to DJI) which means you must attach an external module or you must use the extended battery which triggers the RID in the drone.

That's true for the Mini 4 Pro, too. So, buy a plus battery or add a RID module.

 

[mavic3usa]

That's true for the Mini 4 Pro, too. So, buy a plus battery or add a RID module.

For the US recreational flyer:

The Mini 4 Pro with standard battery weight less than 250g and does not need to be registered.
The Mini 5 Pro with standard battery typically weighs more than 250g so it must be registered and the RID external module must be added.

DJI has declared the M4P with standard battery as a less than 250g drone so the US flyer can somewhat rely on that designation especially since it is called out on the battery.

DJI has not declared the M5P with standard battery as a less than 250g drone and in fact they have removed the 250g label from the battery. There is no reason for the US flyer to assume he has a drone which qualifies for the recreational exception.

You don't see the problem here?

 

[MS Coast]

For the US recreational flyer:

The Mini 4 Pro with standard battery weight less than 250g and does not need to be registered.
The Mini 5 Pro with standard battery typically weighs more than 250g so it must be registered and the RID external module must be added.

DJI has declared the M4P with standard battery as a less than 250g drone so the US flyer can somewhat rely on that designation especially since it is called out on the battery.

DJI has not declared the M5P with standard battery as a less than 250g drone and in fact they have removed the 250g label from the battery. There is no reason for the US flyer to assume he has a drone which qualifies for the recreational exception.

You don't see the problem here?

It's the same issue that existed with the Mini 4 Pro, nothing new.

As for the Mini 4 Pro, it can be resolved for the Mini 5 Pro by simply using a heavier extended battery, which automatically enables RID.

For either drone with a standard battery, if an accessory is attached, it's necessary to attach an external RID module to comply with the letter of the regulation's 250 gram threshold.

On a separate issue, yes, the Mini 5 Pro is not labeled as a sub-250 gram drone and according to DJI's specs, some may weigh 253.9 grams. How likely is it that someone flying a drone rated and labeled at 249.9 grams is going to be held accountable by any law enforcement agency or civil aviation authority if the drone is somehow weighed on a lab-grade balance and found to weigh 4 grams heavier? I'd love to live in a world where there were so few other troubling issues that I had to spend time fretting about that.

 

[anotherlab]

Although I cannot purchase the MP5 in my country (US), the fact that it could be almost 4 grams heavier than the legal limit is really no concern. 4 grams over 250 grams is only 1.6 %. Although this is not a great analogy, this would be the equivalent of driving 101.6 km/h in a 100 km/h zone. Although this is technically illegal, from a realistic and practical aspect, this would rarely be pursued by law enforcement and governments. As others have pointed out, there would not only be questions about tolerances for the measuring device (scale) but there would be questions about how such a device would be accurately calibrated within that margin.

You are right, it's not a great analogy. The questions about tolerances would be moot. To weigh drugs confiscated through police activity, calibrated scales are used. They will be accurate and precise, and a 4 g amount will be easily measured.

Are the drone police going to go around weighing drones? They typically do not carry scales on them or in their vehicles. If a neighbor reported you and the police knew that your drone could be over the limit because it was carrying extra hardware, they could take the drone to the police station and have it weighed. Is that likely to happen? Probably not.

What could happen is that someone flying a drone that had been modified and weighed more than 250g could be caught flying in a location where drones are not allowed at all. Like over a stadium. In that situation, they would be throwing everything that could stick to the pilot.

 

[mavic3usa]

For either drone with a standard battery, if an accessory is attached, it's necessary to attach an external RID module to comply with the letter of the regulation's 250 gram threshold.

99% of the Mini 5 Pro drones entering the US today have this configuration right out of the box:

Mini 5 Pro, standard battery, no accessory attached, no RID, weight: 251g.

Does this drone need to be registered in the US, yes or no?

 

[MS Coast]

99% of the Mini 5 Pro drones entering the US today have this configuration right out of the box:

Mini 5 Pro, standard battery, no accessory attached, no RID, weight: 251g.

You've made that up. DJI doesn't even have that information.

Does this drone need to be registered in the US, yes or no?

You know the regulation. I have not interest in picking nits over +/- grams.

I simply pointed out that concerns over weight and RID with either the Mini 4 Pro or Mini 5 Pro are easily resolved by registering for $5 and flying with a heavier plus battery.

 

[mavic3usa]

You've made that up. DJI doesn't even have that information.


You know the regulation. I have not interest in picking nits over +/- grams.

I simply pointed out that concerns over weight and RID with either the Mini 4 Pro or Mini 5 Pro are easily resolved by registering for $5 and flying with a heavier plus battery.

The answer is clear and it's easy to answer: YES, this drone must be registered according to FAA regulation.

Maybe you're not aware of it and you probably don't know the answer; that's fine, these regulations are often confusing and difficult to understand so I don't blame you for not being sure if it needs to be registered or not. However, it's funny you know "some" of the regulations but other parts of it you don't know. I think you are deflecting but honesty, it isn't necessary to get you admit there's a problem.....the problem still exists.

For everyone else, YES this drone must be registered. If you get a Mini 5 Pro and it weighs more than 250g then you must register it if you want to fly under the recreational exception. It's that simple. Most everyone knows that.

This is a problem. And I will explain later why it cannot be easily resolved.

 

[MS Coast]

Maybe you're not aware of it and you probably don't know the answer; that's fine, these regulations are often confusing and difficult to understand so I don't blame you for not being sure if it needs to be registered or not. However, it's funny you know "some" of the regulations but other parts of it you don't know.

More condescension and more perceived conflict where there is none. Give it a rest, please.

I think you are deflecting but honesty, it isn't necessary to get you admit there's a problem.....the problem still exists.

See post #67 - "It's the same issue that existed with the Mini 4 Pro, nothing new."

I've been out flying this morning, Give it a try.

 

[mavic3usa]

More condescension and more perceived conflict where there is none. Give it a rest, please.



See post #67 - "It's the same issue that existed with the Mini 4 Pro, nothing new."

I've been out flying this morning, Give it a try.

I've already been flying too, back now. Hope you had fun; I did.

Anyway, now that we have settled that the Mini 5 Pro right out of the box with the standard battery must be registered with the FAA when it weighs more than 250g, take a look at this credible video (not me, not my video) for a further explanation of why this is a headache for DJI:

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[MS Coast]

I've already been flying too, back now. Hope you had fun; I did.

Anyway, now that we have settled that the Mini 5 Pro right out of the box with the standard battery must be registered with the FAA when it weighs more than 250g, take a look at this credible video (not me, not my video) for a further explanation of why this is a headache for DJI:

The horse is dead. It was just a little Shetland foal. You can stop beating it.

 

[mavic3usa]

The horse is dead. It was just a little Shetland foal. You can stop beating it.

No thanks, I have more information to share for anyone who wants to read it; feel free to dip out if you've had enough. If you have no plans to buy or fly the M5P in the US, this is mostly irrelevant to you so it's understandable you don't have an issue. Everyone else who is law-abiding and doesn't feel like bending the rules...we have concerns and you should at least respect that. We all prefer not to depend on the authorities to use common sense and we don't expect to receive the privilege of getting an automatic pass should we get caught.

I've preached for years that one or two grams don't mean much and I was shut down and therefore a million Mini drones are registered in the government database because they weigh in at 251g with a strobe light or with landing gear or with prop guards or with an nd filter. As a community, that's what we agreed on but today it's hard to hear the truth when it comes to the M5P.

The Mini 5 Pro that weighs more than 250g with the standard battery and no RID is not legal to operate in the US NAS according to the FAA. All drones imported into this country that weigh more than 250g are required to be equipped with standard RID. Relying on the pilot to attach an external RID module or upgrade the battery in order to comply with RID is not an option; you can't import a non-compliant drone and hope the buyer makes it compliant. The only exception I recall is if the drone is less than 250g....or there might be something about hand-built drones, too. That's why the FAA RID DoC was issued (which gives to go ahead to operate the M5P with standard RID). I'm not a big fan of this and I don't necessarily agree with it but that's my current interpretation and I could be wrong (open to anyone who has other thoughts).

 

[Bad Santa]

This ping pong match is boring.

 

[AnzacJack]

Don’t forget the 0.5% difference between the equator and the poles. That’s about 1.25g

 

[groggysbird]

Good news for those overseas
EASA Confirms DJI Mini 5 Pro Retains C0 Status Despite 252g Weight EASA Confirms DJI Mini 5 Pro Retains C0 Status Despite 252g Weight

 

[mavic3usa]

Good news for those overseas
EASA Confirms DJI Mini 5 Pro Retains C0 Status Despite 252g Weight EASA Confirms DJI Mini 5 Pro Retains C0 Status Despite 252g Weight

Thanks for posting this. Exactly what a sustained effort from the concerned drone flyers will accomplish. EU flyers were highly concerned (although many were dismissive) and for that reason, the government responded.

Would be nice if we could get something similar from the FAA to clarify that a small variance with the weight does not count when it comes to complying with both the need to register the drone because it is over 250g or the need to have standard RID because it is over 250g. That way the stock Mini 5 Pro and the other Mini drones which have minimal added accessories attache can continue to enjoy recreational drone status. Exactly what I have been hoping for many years.

Unlikely we'll get that since most US flyers don't really care and will probably do whatever they think is right for them (due to the lack of perceived enforcement) and the Mini 5 Pro is not sold in the US so there may not be a need for the FAA to comment on it although I would argue there is an FAA DoC on it so it's fair game. I'm fine either way but glad the issue has garnered the attention it deserves. I bet DJI won't make that mistake again.

No love for Canada just yet; I hear they are also receiving numerous calls and are looking into it. Perhaps that will be the next Dronexl story.

 

[Bad Santa]

Unofficial word from someone at the FAA is:

It's illegal to fly a drone over 250g and over without registering and broadcasting but the FAA won't be chasing violators if they're over a few grams unless it contributes to an incident report.