It’s out… Are they nuts?

[Czechvar]

But the corporate officers are usually well incentivized to meet or exceed performance targets…

 

[frozenpenguins]

I was expecting people to go "Instant buy! It's so good I can't wait" instead of "Oh wow, it's expensive." Maybe I was expecting more...

"fiduciary duty".... hahah wow this thread has taken a turn

But I'm with you on that about expecting more. Maybe if we tell them with our purchases (or lack of) they'll figure it out in the next iteration.

 

[sar104]

"fiduciary duty".... hahah wow this thread has taken a turn

But I'm with you on that about expecting more. Maybe if we tell them with our purchases (or lack of) they'll figure it out in the next iteration.

But this thread comprises exactly the same kind of incessant whining that followed the release of the M2, which now appears to be the gold standard that everyone loves. There has to be some fascinating psychology in there somewhere.

 

[Paradigm]

I don't think it's very surprising, and there are countless other examples we can look at where exactly the same thing occurs. It's the same reason you don't see new airplane manufacturers popping up all the time to compete with Airbus/Boeing, and it's the same reason only 4 or 5 smartphone manufacturers own ~80% of the industry. It's the same reason Intel/AMD own basically 100% of the x86 CPU market, and the same reason Nvidia/AMD own virtually 100% of the PC GPU market. There are endless examples.

It's incredibly difficult to break into a market that is basically a monopoly, or dominated by a small handful of major players, typically multi-billion dollar companies with high levels of existing brand awareness and enormous marketing budgets. Imagine the risk and startup capital required to even have a chance at success. It becomes even more difficult when those big companies have the resources to under-cut the price of the newcomer, even if it means operating at a loss for a period of time to stifle them out. R&D, tooling, hiring the appropriate talent, manufacturing, distribution, etc. is extremely expensive and not something one can just wake up one day and decide to do.

It is surprising. Are you at all familiar with FPV drones? It's a thriving community with various manufacturers for just about every single component, from flight controllers to VTX's so on and so forth. Matter of fact, you might say there is TOO much choice available. Seriously, take a look if you aren't familiar with it, I think you'll be shocked. You'll also be shocked how many new products come out and how quickly.

Camera drones are essentially the same thing as FPV drones. There are differences sure, but the parts and how they work are the same. You can very well build yourself a drone like the Mavic. The camera will be different, the software flying the drone, and that you use to fly, will be different. But it is possible to create such a drone. You can create them by yourself. You can begin selling them. There are a few FPV drone companies that do that and have started doing that. But again, they focus on FPV.

Anyway, may point is, the reason DJI drones are so good is not because of the components (although you can certainly argue their VTX software far exceeds the competition), but because they put everything together so well in a final finished product.

I don't think the barrier of entry is as high as a lot of people think.

Now, to do that successfully...

There are competitors, from Autel to the dozen or so Chinese knock off brands. But none have been able to come up with a product to take away a good amount of marketshare. Some are certainly trying, Autel and Skydio come to mind.

Also, I'd like to note that the markets you've mentioned have much higher barriers of entry, from equipment needed to the engineering expertise and regulations.

But this thread comprises exactly the same kind of incessant whining that followed the release of the M2, which now appears to be the gold standard that everyone loves. There has to be some fascinating psychology in there somewhere.

The only whining I'm seeing is from people complaining about others' opinions about price and value.

The tangent this thread, and others go into, are an excellent sign of a thriving community willing to discuss the many aspects of this hobby. Often times such discussion is more interesting than the main topic of the thread. I'm sorry you're seeing a lot of whining instead of what I'm seeing.

 

[sar104]

It is surprising. Are you at all familiar with FPV drones? It's a thriving community with various manufacturers for just about every single component, from flight controllers to VTX's so on and so forth. Matter of fact, you might say there is TOO much choice available. Seriously, take a look if you aren't familiar with it, I think you'll be shocked. You'll also be shocked how many new products come out and how quickly.

I'm not familiar with FPV drones. However, I have considerable experience in both buying and building custom drones for various uses, including imaging, with an almost unlimited budget. As you mention, there are lots of options in terms of components, and the common flight control systems such as Pixhawk are easily adapted even to quite unusual custom airframes. Building and flying is straightforward.

Camera drones are essentially the same thing as FPV drones. There are differences sure, but the parts and how they work are the same. You can very well build yourself a drone like the Mavic. The camera will be different, the software flying the drone, and that you use to fly, will be different. But it is possible to create such a drone. You can create them by yourself. You can begin selling them. There are a few FPV drone companies that do that and have started doing that. But again, they focus on FPV.

And that's where I'd argue that you are completely wrong. Integration of a camera/gimbal combination into an airframe/control system to get anything even remotely resembling the stability and quality we see from DJI or Autel, for example, is very difficult. It appears to be both an engineering and control software problem.

Anyway, may point is, the reason DJI drones are so good is not because of the components (although you can certainly argue their VTX software far exceeds the competition), but because they put everything together so well in a final finished product.

So I partly agree with that, although a successful product is always going to have to be more than just the sum of its components. Open source flight control software, such as Ardupilot, is powerful but full of bugs. RC software, such as QGroundControl, is similar, and really user-unfriendly compared to DJI equivalents. The DJI radio protocols are way ahead of anything open source. And finally the camera/gimbal engineering problem has proven to be totally beyond most companies that have tried to compete.

I don't think the barrier of entry is as high as a lot of people think.

Now, to do that successfully...

And yet it hasn't been done - at least in part for the reasons I mentioned above.

There are competitors, from Autel to the dozen or so Chinese knock off brands. But none have been able to come up with a product to take away a good amount of marketshare. Some are certainly trying, Autel and Skydio come to mind.

Also, I'd like to note that the markets you've mentioned have much higher barriers of entry, from equipment needed to the engineering expertise and regulations.

None of those observations appear to support that it is easy.

The only whining I'm seeing is from people complaining about others' opinions about price and value.

The tangent this thread, and others go into, are an excellent sign of a thriving community willing to discuss the many aspects of this hobby. Often times such discussion is more interesting than the main topic of the thread. I'm sorry you're seeing a lot of whining instead of what I'm seeing.

It almost sounds like you haven't been reading the threads. As always, the sky is falling. It's too expensive, it has the wrong options, ProRes is stupid and no one needs it, the imaging is no better than the Mini 2, the sensor is no better (or even no different by some accounts) than in the M2P..... On and on. The posts on the other side of the argument are mostly trying to rebut wildly incorrect assertions, not just individual opinions. And as I pointed out - it's like déjà vu - mostly similar accusations that were thrown at the M2 when it was released.

 

[CanadaDrone]

It is surprising. Are you at all familiar with FPV drones? It's a thriving community with various manufacturers for just about every single component, from flight controllers to VTX's so on and so forth. Matter of fact, you might say there is TOO much choice available. Seriously, take a look if you aren't familiar with it, I think you'll be shocked. You'll also be shocked how many new products come out and how quickly.

I am more shocked that the conversation has moved to FPV drones haha. Yes I am familiar with them and they are built for a completely different purpose than something like a Mavic 3.

Camera drones are essentially the same thing as FPV drones. There are differences sure, but the parts and how they work are the same. You can very well build yourself a drone like the Mavic. The camera will be different, the software flying the drone, and that you use to fly, will be different. But it is possible to create such a drone. You can create them by yourself. You can begin selling them. There are a few FPV drone companies that do that and have started doing that. But again, they focus on FPV.

No, they are not - I would reply to this but sar104 already provided a nice explanation above.

Anyway, may point is, the reason DJI drones are so good is not because of the components (although you can certainly argue their VTX software far exceeds the competition), but because they put everything together so well in a final finished product.

And that is why it's so difficult to compete with them. It's not easy to do that - if it was, they would have more competition. Merging multiple components together in a way that is polished and reliable is no easy feat. It doesn't stop there either, you need a warranty department, post-purchase service, etc. etc. You don't just wake up one day and decide you want to take half of DJI's market share.

I don't think the barrier of entry is as high as a lot of people think.

Clearly, it is. It's been around 10 years since the original Phantom release and DJI still has very little competition in general, and zero direct competitors offering what DJI offers as a whole.

Now, to do that successfully...

So it's not easy?

There are competitors, from Autel to the dozen or so Chinese knock off brands. But none have been able to come up with a product to take away a good amount of marketshare. Some are certainly trying, Autel and Skydio come to mind.

Exactly.

Also, I'd like to note that the markets you've mentioned have much higher barriers of entry, from equipment needed to the engineering expertise and regulations.

That is certainly open for debate, but you can pick from dozens of other examples if you prefer. The point is the same.

How about action cameras? GoPro has 60-80% market share in most regions. Why hasn't anyone swooped in and taken half of that? Creating a global product/brand and supporting it in all necessary ways from production to customer is an unbelievably daunting and costly endeavor.

The only whining I'm seeing is from people complaining about others' opinions about price and value.
The tangent this thread, and others go into, are an excellent sign of a thriving community willing to discuss the many aspects of this hobby. Often times such discussion is more interesting than the main topic of the thread. I'm sorry you're seeing a lot of whining instead of what I'm seeing.

I think it has more to do with people either simply not understanding certain aspects, or people assuming their own perception of value should apply to everyone else, not taking into consideration that everyone's needs are different and everyone perceives value differently based on those needs.

Many of the complaints I have seen are the equivalent of me telling a professional wedding photographer that he's silly to be using such expensive gear because I think my iPhone takes nice pictures and when I share those pictures, there are no complaints from Grandma.

 

[Macinfo]

I can't do it because they didn't release just the drone at Best Buy, at least not at launch. Seems like it's shipping now, though. I know that they exist to make money, I said it's arguably their purpose. I'm not knocking them for that. I am knocking them for releasing their flagship drone, and due to price or whatever reason, people are hesitating to buy it.

I was expecting people to go "Instant buy! It's so good I can't wait" instead of "Oh wow, it's expensive." Maybe I was expecting more...

This was long expected to be an expensive drone, just because it came in a higher than some expected does not mean that its not worth the cost. If you are a recreational flier, this is probably not for you, unless you have $$ burning holes in your pockets.

People usually have a specific need to buy higher end gear, unless, again, money is no object. I don't fly part 107, so unless I really wanted to have top end video for my random occasional flights and vacations, my Mavic Air 2 is fine.. Perhaps eventually I'll ponder getting an Air 2S unless something else comes along to improve that model.

You cannot set your expectations based on what others think, you either need it or you don't, you can afford it or you can't, there are other places than Best Buy that have or had stock of the Mavic 3, so you cannot just rely on one place to shop.

 

[UAVquadman]

$2200 for just the M3 a controller and battery. $3000 for the “fly more” kit. $5000 for the cine version.

Hard pass for me.

I’ll stick with the M2p until I see what Autel does with the EVO3.

I can second what you have just said as I can confirm that the M2p is a better drone overall. smart move! can't wait for the EVO3 Myself and they may even have a zoom version!

 

[PAW]

While you new M3 owners may have much to complain about, I would love to have a gimbal cover/prop holder like the M3's for my M2P and Air 2S. I hate wrestling with the ones available and replacing them whenever the plastic pins crack.

 

[realvue]

$2200 for just the M3 a controller and battery. $3000 for the “fly more” kit. $5000 for the cine version.

Hard pass for me.

I’ll stick with the M2p until I see what Autel does with the EVO3.

Actually... $3300. 10% more

 

[CanadaDrone]

While you new M3 owners may have much to complain about, I would love to have a gimbal cover/prop holder like the M3's for my M2P and Air 2S. I hate wrestling with the ones available and replacing them whenever the plastic pins crack.

I think you will find nearly everyone complaining about it does not own it

 

[Czechvar]

I’m out…so many issues I‘ll just wait. Returned it this afternoon.

 

[Borden44]

Once you start overpaying and Devaluing the dollar then you get trapped in overpaying for goods like apple ,samsung, and Jordan's... people actually support inflation lol. Good ole China

 

[sar104]

Once you start overpaying and Devaluing the dollar then you get trapped in overpaying for goods like apple ,samsung, and Jordan's... people actually support inflation lol. Good ole China

I'm not sure that you understand the concept of inflation.