Kids throwing Stones at Drones

[Donnie Frank]

Hence the old adage, "Stick and stones may break my drones..."

HA!

D

 

[FlyGuy8675309]

Technically they can not control the air above the ground that’s FFA job

Correct, but they do control the ground inside the HOA, so they can legally restrict the operation of drone from any property in HOA. Even if your state has preemption drone laws, HOA are not a governmental or even quasi-government agency. They are private and have the final say in what's allowed in the HOA. Read your HOA CC&R's to find out just what you signed away when you agreed to live there. LOL.

 

[Pano-pano]

Flying over my property, I was taking pics of my HOA's pond today, and heard some kids yelling.

Then I heard something hit the side of the house.

The little brats were trying to throw stones at my Mavic Air...WTF?!

When they came closer to the fence, I asked them "Are you kids okay?" Twice.

Translation: stop throwing stones at my drone little (expletive removed)s!

After landing, I realized I had caught a five-shot AEB of the kid throwing the stone.

I then shamed them on Nextdoor - with pictures.

Nice throw, kid!

Looking at the flight logs, I never left my property.

Anyone have any thoughts about this situation?

I think you handled it perfectly! Those pictures are great...talk about getting caught red handed.

 

[Dr. Bill 1969]

I think you handled it perfectly! Those pictures are great...talk about getting caught red handed.

Ditto, great job.

 

[johnmeyer]

Correct, but they do control the ground inside the HOA, so they can legally restrict the operation of drone from any property in HOA. Even if your state has preemption drone laws, HOA are not a governmental or even quasi-government agency. They are private and have the final say in what's allowed in the HOA. Read your HOA CC&R's to find out just what you signed away when you agreed to live there. LOL.

The state and federal laws always trump HOA laws. This became clear during the beginning of the DBS satellite revolution (Dish, DirecTV, etc.). Prior to this, many HOAs had passed laws banning the original satellite dishes which were more than six feet in diameter. However, the DBS industry, in order to make sure they could be viable before they spent a fortune launching their satellites, lobbied Congress to pass laws exempting DBS dishes from HOA laws.

Those laws were passed.

As a result, all HOA laws banning these smaller dishes were made null and void.

You can easily Google this to confirm what I say is true.

The same principle applies to drone operation. I don't know if any such laws exempting drone operation from HOA rules exist at federal, state or local level, but if they do -- even if at a local level -- actual law trumps the quasi legal rules (not laws) which HOA can pass.

Here is one citation from a somewhat authoritative source, spelling this out:

Do Florida Statute Override An Association’s Documents?

 

[FlyGuy8675309]

The same principle applies to drone operation.

No it doesn't. In the case of dishes, the FAA passed a rule that included them in the OTARD rule. In the case of drones, the FAA specifically gave control over take-off and landing areas to local authorities.

Press Release – FAA Statement–Federal vs. Local Drone Authority
For Immediate Release
July 20, 2018

Congress has provided the FAA with exclusive authority to regulate aviation safety, the efficiency of the navigable airspace, and air traffic control, among other things. State and local governments are not permitted to regulate any type of aircraft operations, such as flight paths or altitudes, or the navigable airspace.

However, these powers are not the same as regulation of aircraft landing sites, which involves local control of land and zoning. Laws traditionally related to state and local police power – including land use, zoning, privacy, and law enforcement operations – generally are not subject to federal regulation.

Cities and municipalities are not permitted to have their own rules or regulations governing the operation of aircraft.
However, as indicated, they may generally determine the location of aircraft landing sites through their land use powers.

Press Release – FAA Statement–Federal vs. Local Drone Authority

www.faa.gov

 

[Aussie Oldtimer]

So even though its over your land, is it still ok to fly above people?



in Australia, you cannot fly within 30m of any person, full stop. CASA (our authority) told me to just think of it as a 60m dia cylinder around your drone.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

in Australia, you cannot fly within 30m of any person, full stop. CASA (our authority) told me to just think of it as a 60m dia cylinder around your drone.

What happens when you're flying over your property, someone comes within 30m of the ground your drone over, but you don't know that they're there? That is the case here -- the pilot didn't see the kid until he looked at the captured photos later. Are you in bad trouble now, "full stop", or can you claim that you had no knowledge of someone on the other side of the hedge and therefore are not liable for any infractions?

For that matter, what happens if you're doing the same thing, and someone approaches outside of your property line, but within the 30m and you then see them there. Are you in bad trouble now, "full stop", or are you given a reasonable period of time to move or land your craft?

Because 30 meters is a lot, if they can be right up against your property line, but not on your property. Technically, you could run from the back of your house to the front, and they could run around your property as well to now be still within 30 meters.

It seems like murky law to me, especially when call it "full stop" as if there are NO legal remedies or exceptions. And if that's the case, I would guess that a proper case hasn't hit the courts yet enough to change it, because such a silly, binary law will eventually be challenged.

Chris

 

[FlyGuy8675309]

What happens when you're flying over your property, someone comes within 30m of the ground your drone over, but you don't know that they're there? That is the case here -- the pilot didn't see the kid until he looked at the captured photos later. Are you in bad trouble now, "full stop", or can you claim that you had no knowledge of someone on the other side of the hedge and therefore are not liable for any infractions?

For that matter, what happens if you're doing the same thing, and someone approaches outside of your property line, but within the 30m and you then see them there. Are you in bad trouble now, "full stop", or are you given a reasonable period of time to move or land your craft?

Because 30 meters is a lot, if they can be right up against your property line, but not on your property. Technically, you could run from the back of your house to the front, and they could run around your property as well to now be still within 30 meters.

It seems like murky law to me, especially when call it "full stop" as if there are NO legal remedies or exceptions. And if that's the case, I would guess that a proper case hasn't hit the courts yet enough to change it, because such a silly, binary law will eventually be challenged.

Need more info. What country are you in? If in the US, what state? (so I can look up the penalty). Also, recreational or 107? Would this be your third felony? Really need a COMPLETE picture of your situation to give you an accurate answer. Take the weekend to pull it all together and then update us Monday. I have some legal guys ready to go Monday 8am.

 

[Aussie Oldtimer]

Firstly, I find it very hard to believe that the pilot wasn’t aware of the kids. Why else would he take the photos? I don’t take random photos of things.

I’ll bet the house that he was aware

CASA own/control the airspace over here and allow us and other aircraft to use it.

It doesn’t matter if its your own property or not, the laws still apply

The law is very simple here.

Quote “You must not fly your drone within 30 metres of people, unless the other person is part of controlling or navigating the drone.”

Y​

If someone walks into that 30m range, simply move away or just land

I've had it happen on a deserted beach in far Nth Qld where a group of kids walked onto the beach from the bushland. I just moved the drone away

“It seems like murky law to me” . Feel free to come over and be the test case at law and proceed to trial. Let us know how you get on.



Just as a side note, CASA are in the process of introducing new regs. We await the changes

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

Need more info. What country are you in?

I was replying to / asking Assie Oldtimer, who is in Australia. Please see the attribution in my post.


Chris

 

[Aussie Oldtimer]

Need more info. What country are you in? If in the US, what state? (so I can look up the penalty). Also, recreational or 107? Would this be your third felony? Really need a COMPLETE picture of your situation to give you an accurate answer. Take the weekend to pull it all together and then update us Monday. I have some legal guys ready to go Monday 8am.

my post stated that it was Australia! A small country well south of the US west and nowhere Austria.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

If someone walks into that 30m range, simply move away or just land

If only life were actually that simple.

Oh well, there goes my vacation to Australia.

Chris

 

[FlyGuy8675309]

my post stated that it was Australia! A small country well south of the US west and nowhere Austria.

No I was talking to Cereal.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

No I was talking to Cereal.

And I was talking to Aussie -- you're the odd man out here.

I'm done -- bye.

 

[Aussie Oldtimer]

If only life were actually that simple.

Oh well, there goes my vacation to Australia.

Chris

so you would prefer to be able to fly above people than to travel to a country that has different laws than yours? No probs, too many yanks here already ?

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

so you would prefer to be able to fly above people than to travel to [...]

Um, no. I didn't mean or say anything even resembling that.

Chris

 

[johnmeyer]

No it doesn't. In the case of dishes, the FAA passed a rule that included them in the OTARD rule. In the case of drones, the FAA specifically gave control over take-off and landing areas to local authorities. <snip>

I'm not a lawyer, so I guess I can't comment any further on this. My layman's reading of what you quoted is that the FAA doesn't want to get involved in things like sound abatement laws; disputes over where to put buildings near airports; design of airports, etc. However, it sure looks to me -- even after reading the things you posted -- that the FAA is still in firm control about anything having to do with what happens to an aircraft once it is in the air, and they are extending their authority to drones. Thus, I think whatever rules they make will be what will apply, and no lower level authority, including HOAs, will be able to override the FAA laws and rulings.

 

[Bob4131]

I am always interested in comments that people make and how different are the situations. Flying in a dense urban environment with an HOA vs the outback in Australia (or rural America). The idea of posting the kid's photo on Nextdoor vs being reminded that would violate the law in Germany. In another thread - some people flew in totally flat areas vs places with 800 ft cliffs. I just enjoy the different perspectives offered - thanks to the forum for providing different perspectives from around the world. ?

 

[FlyGuy8675309]

I'm not a lawyer, so I guess I can't comment any further on this. My layman's reading of what you quoted is that the FAA doesn't want to get involved in things like sound abatement laws; disputes over where to put buildings near airports; design of airports, etc. However, it sure looks to me -- even after reading the things you posted -- that the FAA is still in firm control about anything having to do with what happens to an aircraft once it is in the air, and they are extending their authority to drones. Thus, I think whatever rules they make will be what will apply, and no lower level authority, including HOAs, will be able to override the FAA laws and rulings.

That's not what I wrote at all. The posted at FAA advisory that said local authorities can determine the take-off/landing sites for drones (or any other aircraft) Not sure where you're getting the airport design stuff from. In a nutshell, if your HOA says you can't take off and land from your backyard, the FAA and aviation rules do not apply. It's a zoning issue. Now if you're outside the neighborhood and flying over HOA land, then it's an FAA issue (that doesn't mean you still won't get hassled.) Fly smart!