Lake George incident - reckless or not?

[Chip]

@Chip - Don't want to derail this thread, but could you PM me with any more details you remember (or ideally, a link to a news story) about that incident or the legal proceedings that followed? This is the first I've heard of it and would like to know more. Thanks for any pointers you can share.

Sure. I collected all the docs from the court file and through public records requests. Here are a few. I uploaded many of the docs onto a thread here on this forum a few years ago. I will look for the link. But here a few docs including portions of the police report you may find interesting. A few things I learned:

Police have to put the controller in your hands to charge you. In some cases, that is tough to do but in some cases, the pilot makes it easy for a good investigator. Make sure you know what images and video are on your SD card. Know that the police can take the images and do a reverse image search and find you or someone you photographed who can give you up without realizing it. If you make a series of mistakes and crash your drone into someone, decide whether to own the flight or not. (I say own it). If you play games and say let me see you put the controller in my hands in court and they do, it can be very damaging to your credibility.



Police reconstruction of flight in downtown Seattle based on GPS data from drone overlaid on google map.

 

[Aerophile]

OK, thanks.

As I said, don't want to hijack or derail this thread, so no need to continue on this tangent. If anyone is interested, just google the following terms, and you'll find plenty of coverage of the incident and the aftermath:

seattle 2015 drone crash Pride parade

You can read all about it (and other nearby drone incidents, which were frequently mentioned). If you don't want to read about it (and I don't blame you) here's an executive summary:

Idiot crashed his drone in the middle of a dense city downtown neighborhood, in a place with little tolerance for drones on a any day, but this was a day when the streets were packed with people watching a popular parade. Drone lost signal, drone crashed into one of the buildings, fell and landed on a woman's head, injuring her (knocked out, then hospitalized with a concussion) and one other parade attendee (minor cuts). Drone operator ran away, but attendees got photos of him. Police investigated, he turned himself in, and was prosecuted for reckless endangerment. Locals pointed to him as just the latest drone idiot that was part of a rapidly growing danger to all law-abiding citizens. Jury conviction was unanimous. 30 days in jail + a $500 fine + restitution to the injured woman. City attorney was disappointed, he wanted a 90-day sentence. The case was all handled by the City, FAA was not directly involved. That's my summary, others might disagree.

So, in Lake George, the FAA may not weigh in (or if they do, they may simply repeat the rules, eg maintain VLOS, don't fly over crowds, vessels, vehicles, etc.), but stand back and let the local jurisdiction bring their case.

OK, back to the Lake George incident. Sorry for the diversion (@Chip or Mods: you can remove the multiple large attachments to tidy up the thread if you like).

 

[Skydreamer]

 

[B52-D]

I wonder if Paul will use his video as a defense ?
Or if he plans to just make the Police use whatever video they must have taken to try and prove their case ?

I believe using his video for his defense would not be useful, more likely it would incriminate him.

 

[ericole]

I dont see anything illegal ,Paul is in trouble because cop got “upset “,thats it,i would smile,show tumb up and say “no problem”,most likely go and find better spot with less cops around

This is a clear case where personal and legal rights need to be fought for. As the cops say, not knowing the law isn’t a defense. Has to work both ways. I didn’t see reckless. At no time did he fly over anyone or boat. It purposefully swerved around them. Just because it’s fast and agile doesn’t make it reckless.

 

[ericole]

You didn't follow the law of common sense by arguing with the officer. There is an old saying about knowing when to stand up and when to shut up.

Didn’t sound like he was arguing by stating the regs and the fact that the cop didn’t know them Way too many rolling over in our society today for out of control public officials and servants.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I believe using his video for his defense would not be useful, more likely it would incriminate him.

Yes, could go either way.
The police evidence when viewed by his team could tell if that made it look worse from the boat, and if so his video might be useful in defense.

But yeah, sometimes it's best to leave the onus on the police / prosecution to prove their case . . . not taking the stand to testify in your defense / cross examination, not giving statements, the right to remain silent etc.

 

[PhoebeSnow]

We all have our flight preferences but I would simply not fly that fast or that close to other people. One misstep or miscalcuation and someone could easily be hurt perhaps even quite seriously. I sense from viewing the video that anyone judging his fate and deciding on a penalty will NOT agree and side with the drone pilot even if there are no applicable regulations illustrating his violation of them. We all fly drones and if I was there with my family and someone buzzed by us I think I would be concerned and side with law enforcement. In my mind it showed a remarkable if not consderble lack of sound judgement and most certainly will not advance the sport of drone flying. If anything, it will hurt it for the rest of us who elect to fly more safely and more conservatively particularly well away from other people.

 

[bsartist]

Police boat at 0:44 2: 03 and 1:06 ?
Looks like they stopped to possibly record 'evidence' and maybe work out where the pilot might be.

That last loop of the boat looked a little purposeful after the first 2 passes, but with FPV gear he might not have even known it was a police boat until later.

Anything FPV like that might look a little reckless to a regular consumer drone pilot I guess, certainly the general public might see it as that . . . but not what I'd call reckless endangerment of 'any degree'.

I think yhis might be a 50/50 thing in a court of law, some of the flight was close to / over canoe - kayak paddlers, and some of the outer distances could be construed as BVLOS, at least he had a spotter . . . it might come down to how the judge views drones and their use (though it shouldn't of course), as much as he / she considering 'what if' the drone had failed at this point, or that point etc.

Be interesting to hear of the outcome (I hope he gets off, even if it is with a mild 'warning').

I didn’t see any police markings on that RHI boat. What agency charged him?

 

[bsartist]

I didn’t see any police markings on that boat.

I talked with Paul this afternoon. He had no idea it was a police boat until he watched the video at home. He mentioned he can see the person standing on the boat pointing at him in the video too.

But he had no idea at the time.

I would probably not have flown this close to people, but I just don't see any recklessness either. I even see him changing course to avoid flying over people.

If he loses, it could very well have poor ramifications for all of us.



Also, he heard from the court today (that's why I called him), they've postponed tomorrow's court date until November 9th. They are looking into complying with his ADA requirements.

What was the agency? That boat appears to be unmarked. I live and boat on that lake. I know it to be patrolled by three agencies but have never known them to used unmarked boats. I don’t see/recognize any markings on that RHIB.

 

[B52-D]

Paul’s Story: On August 13, 2022, I was on vacation with my fiance and two children at Lake George in New York. I am a drone pilot, and I was flying my drone legally over the waters of Lake George. A harbor patrol boat approached me and told me that I was "too close to the water" and that I had to "fly higher."

 

[bsartist]

Copy and past from the Paul
Just familiarize your self with the story is scary if you fly drones that they can criminalize a situation like this. Absurdity! Paul’s Story: On August 13, 2022, I was on vacation with my fiance and two children at Lake George in New York. I am a drone pilot, and I was flying my drone legally over the waters of Lake George. A harbor patrol boat approached me and told me that I was "too close to the water" and that I had to "fly higher." I am well aware of the rules and regulations when flying a drone as I am a student of the Pilot Institute. I explained to the officer that I was following the rules and not violating any laws by flying close to the water. The officer got extremely upset and yelled, "You need to fly higher, or I am going to write you a ticket!" I explained to the officer that I did not believe he could write me a ticket for flying close to the water. The officer parked his boat and approached me. I tried explaining to the officer that my flight was legal and I was not violating any laws, but he did not have any interest in hearing what I had to say. He spent the next half hour on the phone with his supervisor trying to figure out what he would write on the ticket. The officer charged me with a misdemeanor offense of New York penal code 120.20 (reckless endangerment in the 2nd degree). On my first court date, I requested that future court hearings be held virtually or at a closer venue as I am disabled and have severe mobility issues. The Americans with Disabilities Act requires state and local governments to allow me a reasonable accommodation due to my disability. The New York State Unified Court System has a policy in place stating that I am entitled to such an accommodation due to my disability (https://ww2.nycourts.gov/Accessibilit.... The judge in this case denied both request and did not follow proper procedure in his denial of my rights. I have not committed any crime. I followed all laws required during my flight. My flight was heavily focused on safety but I will require legal advocacy to let the truth be heard in this court. I cannot do that without your help. This court is comparing my aircraft in flight to bullets fired from a gun and rocks thrown a hand. While it may sound absurd, this is the language that is being used against me by the prosecution in this case. They are doing so to avoid the jurisdiction of the FAA, the sole entity that controls all airspace in the United States of America. If I lose this case, I face a 1 year jail sentence. That would be devastating for my family and myself.

More specific please. No such thing as “harbor patrol” on Lake George. There are three agencies that patrol it. Pick the one that charged you.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

More specific please. No such thing as “harbor patrol” on Lake George. There are three agencies that patrol it. Pick the one that charged you.

LOL
Well maybe you should ask the person who is being charged rather then the person who is relaying a message from someplace else.
Unreal how some of you guys don't read the full post and start posting stuff you have no idea about.

It says "Copy and past from the Paul"

 

[Aerophile]

Here, let me google that for you...

lake george NY harbor patrol

"Who Patrols Lake George?

Commission's Marine Patrol

Patrolling the waters of Lake George since 1962, the Lake George Park Commission's Marine Patrol successfully completed 59 years of continuous service in 2021. Through the years, the Marine Patrol has built up a solid record of service dedicated to the protection of Lake George and its users."

Maybe those guys? (Beats me, I'm 3000 miles away and have never been there...just a guess)

 

[bsartist]

Here, let me google that for you...

lake george NY harbor patrol



Maybe those guys? (Beats me, I'm 3000 miles away and have never been there...just a guess)

Incomplete. Three agencies patrol. That boat bears no marking of any of them. I live there.

 

[bsartist]

LOL
Well maybe you should ask the person who is being charged rather then the person who is relaying a message from someplace else.
Unreal how some of you guys don't read the full post and start posting stuff you have no idea about.

It says "Copy and past from the Paul"

Maybe if Paul reads he can respond. No reason to be a d1ck

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I didn’t see any police markings on that RHI boat. What agency charged him?

Not sure if that was the police vessel, but it was the most obvious from what I saw.
Looked like uniforms worn.
Think it would have been just local law enforcement from the background story.

 

[bsartist]

Not sure if that was the police vessel, but it was the most obvious from what I saw.
Looked like uniforms worn.
Think it would have been just local law enforcement from the background story.

Agree with you. Certainly seemed like uniforms to me. But I live and boat and fly there. Never saw that unmarked boat nor those uniforms.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Agree with you. Certainly seemed like uniforms to me. But I live and boat and fly there. Never saw that unmarked boat nor those uniforms.

The pilot was certainly unlucky then.
Looks like a nice spot to be settled in, good for you.