Learned a New Surveillance Trick So Your Target Can't See You On a Sunny Day.

[Cafguy]

I could have seen an emergency helicopter coming a miles away and left way before it arrived near the scene.

IF they know your drone is in the area, that helicopter won't takeoff in the first place. So you will not see it coming and YES it is illegal to obstruct emergency services in Florida. Are you saying if there is a wildfire nearby you can film them fighting the fire with your drone? well the answer is a big huge NO!! A simple traffic stop is the same as that fire. WHY - You have no idea of the nature of the emergency and you have not been authorized by the appropriate individuals to be flying near the scene. Keeping any air support away from the officers is considered Obstruction and is illegal in every state. once again I would be very careful. That's all I am saying and I do not Know Florida law so theres that.

 

[Droning on and on...]

No such law in Florida. I was in VLOS anyway. I could have seen an emergency helicopter coming a miles away and left way before it arrived near the scene.

Here's what it seems you're not getting: We (the general public) are expected by you to just take your word here and trust you?

Doesn't work that way. We don't. You've already demonstrated you won't follow rules (you flew over people at that accident).

 

[mavic3usa]

California Government Code 853.1, and 853.5 impeding emergency responders. and I to love a friendly debate!

I just wish you would always include these words knowingly or willfully and misdemeanor or violation when you make reference to this situation. Then we can all agree with you because that makes the most sense. We can all agree that in all 50 states, this is likely the same and it should be. However, the way you describe it, everyone should hope that once again California is the exception if it is indeed true (which I find very unlikely). I know for sure there is no such law in my state since we don't arrest and jail people for what could have or might have happened but never actually happened. Believe me, if it does happens, then you and me both we're on it and there are problems and my first reaction is how do we fix this? I don't believe the answer to fix it is simply to outlaw and arrest; that doesn't work in a free society. To me, the answer lies in how to do out best to prevent taking into account several well-known factors. But how to fix is another debate as well.

My google is not working very good lately, can you provide a link or a text to those government codes? My google is telling me something totally different and I can't resolve it so I don't want to discount it just yet, there's gotta be something there. Help me out please!

So you're saying with the OP's post and the picture showing the officers, if it is in California, those officers could have captured his RID, contact the FAA to get his details, and then go to a judge and get an arrest warrant for the drone flyer for a felony with probable cause being he flew his drone near an emergency scene and if responders were to seek rescue helicopter services, the help would have been stopped or delayed even though the pilot had FAA authorization and violated no FAA laws from the only agency legally able to regulate the US airspace? Am I correct?

 

[mavic3usa]

In my 62 years I've observed that as a rule, generally, it takes a complaint by someone to trigger law enforcement involvement in privacy violations.

Laws against "lingering", surveillance, and other forms of harassment don't get actively enforced by LEOs except where there's a complaint, or the context is obviously sensitive for some reason.

Agreed for the most part; however, with drones, it seems invasion of privacy is the only method left to push back against what appears to be unfettered flights. Law enforcement is quick to learn this is there only defense but only because the right to privacy is a grey area already to begin with. But yes the harassment and surveillance and loitering parts have to be persistent and repetitive and unwanted and there is an illegal component so a single brief instance is never going to fly. Invasion of privacy is the go to for drones these days.

 

[Cafguy]

So you're saying with the OP's post and the picture showing the officers, if it is in California, those officers could have captured his RID, contact the FAA to get his details, and then go to a judge and get an arrest warrant for the drone flyer for a felony with probable cause being he flew his drone near an emergency scene and if responders were to seek rescue helicopter services, the help would have been stopped or delayed even though the pilot had FAA authorization and violated no FAA laws from the only agency legally able to regulate the US airspace? Am I correct?

What I am saying is that IF A victim is in need of emergency services and those services are delayed by your actions Yes you can be arrested. If that person dies because you delayed services Well we all know what that charge will be. I am not saying that every time an officer sees a drone that officer should start investigating -- NO! What I am saying is that the Drone pilot should be darn sure and very careful about the situation they are filming. If the pilot has FAA authorization that is one thing- but even sudden situations can get an air response and then the FAA expects you to land. The FAA also publishes plenty of info about the hazards and dangers of flying around disasters and emergency situations. I DO reference California a lot but that is only because it and Texas are the only two states that I have done any Law research The only laws I have looked at closely in Florida is the Fishing thing. I Know what law enforcement would do here. It could be different in a different state that's why I Say " in California " a lot. I will also say that This person should research this carefully for themselves and Please do not get your legal advice from a Drone forum guy like me. I am stating what I think to be the correct facts and I am Happy to be corrected.
Late Edit: I also reside in a community where the police rely on air support - I used to live in Midland Texas and the rules about law enforcement and drones in a small city such as that may be Vastly different but probably not.

 

[horsepowerphoto]

Regarding my type of surveillance: It's ok because I don't record or photograph anything. I just observe. It's just recreational for me.

So you are just nosey?

 

[mavic3usa]

What I am saying is that IF A victim is in need of emergency services and those services are delayed by your actions Yes you can be arrested. If that person dies because you delayed services Well we all know what that charge will be. I am not saying that every time an officer sees a drone that officer should start investigating -- NO! What I am saying is that the Drone pilot should be darn sure and very careful about the situation they are filming. If the pilot has FAA authorization that is one thing- but even sudden situations can get an air response and then the FAA expects you to land. The FAA also publishes plenty of info about the hazards and dangers of flying around disasters and emergency situations. I DO reference California a lot but that is only because it and Texas are the only two states that I have done any Law research The only laws I have looked at closely in Florida is the Fishing thing. I Know what law enforcement would do here. It could be different in a different state that's why I Say " in California " a lot. I will also say that This person should research this carefully for themselves and Please do not get your legal advice from a Drone forum guy like me. I am stating what I think to be the correct facts and I am Happy to be corrected.

100% agreed. Not only you are responsible if your willful actions caused the delay but also you could be linked to the bad things that actually happened after that delay. Honestly, not something I would do or what to see happen. Any pilot who arrives at an emergency scene (whether there are emergency crews there or not) and uses his drone, boat, car, or any other item to get in the way to slow down the response or block the respond, I'd hope it would be a felony unlike the misdemeanor that it usually is. I think the OP mentioned this, even if you are not there trying to get in the way, once you learn of any relevant circumstances, the FAA expects to you land your drone; concur. This usually happens when the first responders tell you to land your drone just like they may tell everyone else on the scene to clear the area in preparation.

One quick item that I want to address because I know it comes up and will for sure in the future. The news/media and the free press need to be able to operate with significant interference from the government. In the interest of public matters and transparency, it's not in anyone best interest to have a blanket prohibition in place. All drone regardless who they fly for or why they fly their number one priority is public safety. That being said, the media should be able to use a drone at an emergency scene and it will be helpful to establish more clear rules if this turns out to be a problem or it's not working well (i.e. the media keeps getting in the way, etc). Personally I think this needs to be sorted *before* the situation arises but it is my understanding, like most things, it is not and technically that's the fault of both parties (that it isn't sorted). For forever, the government insisted the media could not use helicopter and then they caved in so they'll cave in on drones eventually and work something out. As an activist, I'd rather see this get adjudicated rather than worked out on paper with processes and procedures (which are never sufficient because they will be abused). That's hard to do when some many problems with the judicial system so I suspect this will be tasked to the future US auditors that will eventually arise in our country like is has across the pond.

 

[Cafguy]

the media should be able to use a drone at an emergency scene and it will be helpful to establish more clear rules if this turns out to be a problem or it's not working well (i.e. the media keeps getting in the way, etc). Personally I think this needs to be sorted *before* the situation arises

I could not agree more with your statement.

 

[Droning on and on...]

I also agree strongly with @mavic3usa's comment about media access.

The requirement, of course, is that they are much much more extensively trained, p107, undoubtedly some addition joint training with local PD in various rules, caveats, etc., and probably some internal training and procedures with the employer too.

And the biggie: They are never there flying around without coordination with any EMS on site.

I doubt that @StevenBrodsky was communicating with EMS on site. If he was, he wouldn't have been flying at all. As such, neither knew what the other was doing in real-time, a recipe for problems.

 

[GFields]

Unless you are LEO or some type of emergency crew, it is never "right" to surveil anyone for any reason!

 

[lensimages]

IF they know your drone is in the area, that helicopter won't takeoff in the first place. So you will not see it coming and YES it is illegal to obstruct emergency services in Florida. Are you saying if there is a wildfire nearby you can film them fighting the fire with your drone? well the answer is a big huge NO!! A simple traffic stop is the same as that fire. WHY - You have no idea of the nature of the emergency and you have not been authorized by the appropriate individuals to be flying near the scene. Keeping any air support away from the officers is considered Obstruction and is illegal in every state. once again I would be very careful. That's all I am saying and I do not Know Florida law so theres that.

No good to me and OMM , we live in South Wales, it’s nearly always raining, cheers Len