Mavic 3 - main camera - low light image quality analysis

[Ralph thompson]

Curious about your other settings since it was dark. I assume u had max aperture (f2.8?). Iso 100 must have be a very slow shutter speed but don’t see any softness.

 

[SkywalkerFeng]

Curious about your other settings since it was dark. I assume u had max aperture (f2.8?). Iso 100 must have be a very slow shutter speed but don’t see any softness.

You just pointed out another key finding, which I forgot to mention in initial analysis.

Mavic 3 has an improved gimbal stabilization system, compared to Mavic 2 Pro. I was able to shoot sharp images at F2.8, ISO 100, 1.6 sec with a very high successful rate. This opens up a lot of new possibilities when shooting at night.

 

[Ralph thompson]

Amazing, thanks

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

Hi all, M2P owner trolling the M3 forum looking for topics on image quality (for upgrade consideration).

I just want to point out that in addition to Adobe NR, NIK NR, and Topaz NR, I have had good results with nighttime shooting by stacking. That is, putting the M2P on Multi shot (not AEB), then stacking them in PS to auto-align, converting them to a smart object stack, then apply the Median Stack mode to that stack (Layer>Smart Objects>Stack Mode>Median),

This deals with a lot of noise without removing detail, which you can then apply some more light NR on top of (but don't need to use as much as you would have).

Thanks for this thread. I find it heartening that this sensor seems to have better low light noise characteristics as well as better DR.

Chris

 

[Bussty]

Hi all, M2P owner trolling the M3 forum looking for topics on image quality (for upgrade consideration).

I just want to point out that in addition to Adobe NR, NIK NR, and Topaz NR, I have had good results with nighttime shooting by stacking. That is, putting the M2P on Multi shot (not AEB), then stacking them in PS to auto-align, converting them to a smart object stack, then apply the Median Stack mode to that stack (Layer>Smart Objects>Stack Mode>Median),

This deals with a lot of noise without removing detail, which you can then apply some more light NR on top of (but don't need to use as much as you would have).

Thanks for this thread. I find it heartening that this sensor seems to have better low light noise characteristics as well as better DR.

Chris

Hi Chris
I almost pushed the button on the Mavic 3 but heading to Autel Lite+ now. I did this test:- Camera Comparison Mavic 3 vs Autel Lite+ and found the Lite+ sharper edge to edge even comparing the Lite+ at 3:2 vs 16:9 with the Mavic 3 i.e Lite+ lens sharper in corners when even further from centre than Mavic 3. The test did show the better noise profile due to sensor of the Mavic 3 at 200% pixel peeping but I figure noise you can remove whereas you can't create detail. The camera on the Lite+ seems to a win for Autel on that drone. To finish off the processing done by the Lite+ drone in Supernight mode is some kind of black magic!

Cheers

Andrew

 

[SkywalkerFeng]

Hi Chris
I almost pushed the button on the Mavic 3 but heading to Autel Lite+ now. I did this test:- Camera Comparison Mavic 3 vs Autel Lite+ and found the Lite+ sharper edge to edge even comparing the Lite+ at 3:2 vs 16:9 with the Mavic 3 i.e Lite+ lens sharper in corners when even further from centre than Mavic 3. The test did show the better noise profile due to sensor of the Mavic 3 at 200% pixel peeping but I figure noise you can remove whereas you can't create detail. The camera on the Lite+ seems to a win for Autel on that drone. To finish off the processing done by the Lite+ drone in Supernight mode is some kind of black magic!

Cheers

Andrew

"I figure noise you can remove whereas you can't create detail. "

- When you remove noise, you also removed some detail. That is the inevitable cost of noise removal. And yes, you can't create detail, once they are removed.

I am surprised the test is only done at ISO 100. You don't really see the difference between 1" and 4/3" sensor, unless pushing ISO higher.

There are some very minor differences between the two, in terms of sharpness, but is not significant enough to impact one's purchase decision.

What really impact user's purchase decision are some other, much bigger differences:

(Mavic 3 v.s. Autel Lite+)

- main camera lens (24mm vs. 29mm)
- telephoto lens (162mm v.s. none)
- ultra-wide lens (15.5mm v.s. none)

The differences can be illustrated in the following images, taken in a single flight.

Left : Ultra wide (15.5mm)
Center: 7X optical zoom (162mm)
Right. : 28X digital zoom



The fact Mavic 3 can capture both ultra-wide and zoom-in images in one flight, opens a whole new door to the world of photography.

 

[Bussty]

I am surprised the test is only done at ISO 100. You don't really see the difference between 1" and 4/3" sensor, unless pushing ISO higher.

There are some very minor differences between the two, in terms of sharpness, but is not significant enough to impact one's purchase decision.

I only do landscape work so only use 100 ISO so suits perfectly plus no geo fencing, fantastic low low light quality and way cheaper!

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

I only do landscape work so only use 100 ISO so suits perfectly plus no geo fencing, fantastic low low light quality and way cheaper!

I too do daylight landscape, but a good deal of my work is nighttime cityscapes at ISOs higher than 100. The higher ISO M2P images can be quite noisy and so I have to do a lot of work to clean them up. The M4/3 sensor is attractive to me because of the theoretical advantages of less High-ISO noise as well as better DR.

I see your mention of the Lite+ having something called "Supernight mode". The M2P has a similar mode (I forget what it's called), but I discarded it early on because it's an internal stacking process that produces only a JPG output. Does the Autel Supernight mode the same limitation on that mode, or does it produce a RAW file?

Chris

 

[Bussty]

Hi Chris I'm not sure about the Supernight stills mode (my Lite+ is enroute!) but this Youtube video has some great examples of Supernight footage and stills. There are some pretty impressive Supernight Videos from the Lite+ on Youtube.
Cheers
Andrew

 

[GadgetGuy]

Hi Chris I'm not sure about the Supernight stills mode (my Lite+ is enroute!) but this Youtube video has some great examples of Supernight footage and stills. There are some pretty impressive Supernight Videos from the Lite+ on Youtube.
Cheers
Andrew

Missing the link to the YT video you referenced?

 

[Bussty]

opps sorry

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And this is just pretty to watch

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[Tufargon]

Crazy how Autel nails video quality right out of the box. Always liked that about them.

 

[adcimagery]

I too do daylight landscape, but a good deal of my work is nighttime cityscapes at ISOs higher than 100. The higher ISO M2P images can be quite noisy and so I have to do a lot of work to clean them up. The M4/3 sensor is attractive to me because of the theoretical advantages of less High-ISO noise as well as better DR.

I see your mention of the Lite+ having something called "Supernight mode". The M2P has a similar mode (I forget what it's called), but I discarded it early on because it's an internal stacking process that produces only a JPG output. Does the Autel Supernight mode the same limitation on that mode, or does it produce a RAW file?

Chris

You could replicate Supernight by shooting a burst, stacking the image in Photoshop, and setting that stack as a smart object with Median blend mode.

 

[Bussty]

You could replicate Supernight by shooting a burst, stacking the image in Photoshop, and setting that stack as a smart object with Median blend mode.

Do that a lot with my 4/3 Olympus. Also good for getting rid of people

 

[GadgetGuy]

You could replicate Supernight by shooting a burst, stacking the image in Photoshop, and setting that stack as a smart object with Median blend mode.

By burst, I asume you mean a bracketed burst?

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

You could replicate Supernight by shooting a burst, stacking the image in Photoshop, and setting that stack as a smart object with Median blend mode.

This is exactly what I've been doing with the M2P. I shoot the the bust and have the DNGs, so I do the stack myself and have total control over the output.

Plus, I can do whatever else I want with the SmartObject stack, including more noise reduction and upscaling to a larger size using the full RAW rather than the compressed JPG.

It works well.

Chris

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

By burst, I asume you mean a bracketed burst?

No, not bracketed, "Burst".

The M2P has a Burst mode for 5 identical shots, which you can stack to remove noise. The idea is that after the frames are aligned, anything that does not occur in the same place for all frames must be noise (because noise moves around, is placed randomly in each frame), so it can be removed.

A Look at Reducing Noise in Photographs Using Median Blending

Between a recent post here on PetaPixel about the Beauty of Space Photography, and my own experiments on blending series of images using averaging

petapixel.com

Chris

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

Crazy how Autel nails video quality right out of the box. Always liked that about them.

If that's what you want. A professional or concerned semi-pro (those looking at the Mavic 3) would want a flat LOG output for post-production to have control over the output (color-grade, dynamics, etc.).

So I think the Supernight for video is not something I would be interested in either. I suppose this would be a good competitor for the Air2 though.

Chris

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

The M2P has a Burst mode for 5 identical shots, which you can stack to remove noise. The idea is that after the frames are aligned, anything that does not occur in the same place for all frames must be noise (because noise moves around, is placed randomly in each frame), so it can be removed.

Chris

EDIT: I searched, I found. Note only did they introduce Burst in a subsequent firmware, it now allows 7 shots (so 3/5/7). Never mind! This is just DJI never updating their owners manual, as usual.

Crap, does the M3 not have Burst mode? I'm looking at the specs in the owners manual and it only lists AEB and Timed. Can the AEB be set to 0EV for each step?

That's a show-stopper for me, if so.

Chris

 

[Tufargon]

If that's what you want. A professional or concerned semi-pro (those looking at the Mavic 3) would want a flat LOG output for post-production to have control over the output (color-grade, dynamics, etc.).

So I think the Supernight for video is not something I would be interested in either. I suppose this would be a good competitor for the Air2 though.

Chris

That wasn't my point.