Mavic Pro-2 vs Zoom and P4P - Line Skipping + Sensor Heat?

[BlueBay]

Or...fly in normal and HQ and forget about this nonsense.

Seriously, Lon Denard you seem to be either criticising or patronising people in an impolite way. I'd don't like to see people leave the discussion because of your comments, no matter how new they are to this forum. You should be aware of the title of this thread in addition to the terms and rules of this board. Please stay within context of this thread or post your comments elsewhere. A lot of people choose to take this thread seriously as it provides a much deeper understanding of the M2P.

 

[BlueBay]

You can fix all that in post!!!!

So many make excuses for DJI, just like so many that made excuses for Apple. "They'll fix that in the next round"... Stand in line and spend more $$$

No thanks. DJI makes good stuff, but to me MP2 is way over hyped. I likes some of the shots, but Evo looks great too. I'll be awaiting the P5 as well.

I agree Matt Ball, we would have been happy with an honest product description at launch or at least a deep description of the limitations, rather than having to burden the consumer with all this trial & error. But I've no doubt that eventually the M2P will become the finished article.

 

[BlueBay]

Certainly. The ironic part is that it yields nothing better than plain, old fashioned, run of the mill, simple pixel binning that has bin around forever. (or line skipping) lol

Big question is: "Why" was it required? For what reason?

CT

Keep up the great work Cliff, you should know that I very much appreciate your insight. No doubt this can only result in a positive improvement in both the deep understanding of the M2P and future firmware or product releases.

 

[WithTheBirds]

Seriously, Lon Denard you seem to be either criticising or patronising people in an impolite way. I'd don't like to see people leave the discussion because of your comments, no matter how new they are to this forum. You should be aware of the title of this thread in addition to the terms and rules of this board. Please stay within context of this thread or post your comments elsewhere. A lot of people choose to take this thread seriously as it provides a much deeper understanding of the M2P.

Deep understanding? Like what? This sort of carry on immediately follows the introduction of every piece of digital imaging gear (flying or not). It is all speculation. The manufacturers will never reveal details of any algorithms employed in the image processing for obvious reasons.

 

[endless_shutters]

Wether or not anyone is happy with the existing performance of the M2P, we should analyze, critique we should hold DJIs feet to the fire and push for peak performance on this product.

I don't understand how some are so willing to just accept the flaws that have been observed. I like to think that this conversation will lead to our voices being heard and acknowledged in future enhancements.

 

[BlueBay]

Deep understanding? Like what? This sort of carry on immediately follows the introduction of every piece of digital imaging gear (flying or not). It is all speculation. The manufacturers will never reveal details of any algorithms employed in the image processing for obvious reasons.

The underlying deep information is used to validate the product from a consumers point of view. Such as, are we receiving the product specification that we paid for? Without this 'carry on' a lot of products that we use today would not have been subject to recalls or improvements etc. With due respect, it's your choice to be a part of this or not. I choose to read it and absorb it as far as I can understand it. I would not go as far to say it's pure speculation. There have always been murmurs of discomfort regarding the M2P resolution. We are now reaching a time when a lot of thorough reviews have been completed by consumers. I feel that this thread has merit in order to give us all a deeper understanding of the 1 inch sensor specifically.

Why would DJI not make full use of the data captured by the sensor in order to achieve a resolution at least as good as the P4P? Full 4k is no big deal these days, especially if you have a 1 inch sensor (!) installed within the device. This leads to Cliff's fundamental question, why are they doing this? Is it a design fault or a genuine limitation of a device this small/portable? I basically paid for the 1 inch sensor as advertised.

 

[BlueBay]

Wether or not anyone is happy with the existing performance of the M2P, we should analyze, critique we should hold DJIs feet to the fire and push for peak performance on this product.

I don't understand how some are so willing to just accept the flaws that have been observed. I like to think that this conversation will lead to our voices being heard and acknowledged in future enhancements.

Agreed.

 

[Anndybo]

Why would DJI not make full use of the data captured by the sensor in order to achieve a resolution at least as good as the P4P? Full 4k is no big deal these days, especially if you have a 1 inch sensor (!) installed within the device. This leads to Cliff's fundamental question, why are they doing this? Is it a design fault or a genuine limitation of a device this small/portable? I basically paid for the 1 inch sensor as advertised.

Rumor is they don't use Ambarella but designed their own SoC - it may explain hardware limitation, or their firmware is still under development or they don't want to show all advantages before Phantom 5 premiere.

Two quotes:
"In a memo (dated August 30th) to retailers, DJI announces the End of Life for the Phantom 4 Pro/Pro+, Phantom 3 SE, Osmo, Osmo+, Osmo Mobile, Mavic Pro and Mavic Pro Platinum "

and:
This is a portion from Ambarella stock investor earnings call......
"And as you can see from our weak Q3 guidance, weeks by revenue from these consumer applications to continue to be under pressure, reflecting lower demand for non-GoPro sports camera, the VR market remaining nascent, and the drone market leader, DJI, mostly using its own silicon solutions. "

So we can only speculate "why". For now enjoy flying this great drone. We have to wait.

 

[Cliff_622]

Rumor is they don't use Ambarella but designed their own SoC - it may explain hardware limitation, or their firmware is still under development or they don't want to show all advantages before Phantom 5 premiere.

Two quotes:
"In a memo (dated August 30th) to retailers, DJI announces the End of Life for the Phantom 4 Pro/Pro+, Phantom 3 SE, Osmo, Osmo+, Osmo Mobile, Mavic Pro and Mavic Pro Platinum "

and:
This is a portion from Ambarella stock investor earnings call......
"And as you can see from our weak Q3 guidance, weeks by revenue from these consumer applications to continue to be under pressure, reflecting lower demand for non-GoPro sports camera, the VR market remaining nascent, and the drone market leader, DJI, mostly using its own silicon solutions. "

So we can only speculate "why". For now enjoy flying this great drone. We have to wait.

What we now know.

1.) FOV is significantly softer than HQ
2.) FOV sub-samples (pixel bins) to reach a downsized sensor sample data capture.
3.) DJI now ADMITS this proces has a negative impact on image quality.
4.) This cant be dismissed as "not noticable". It is and we all see what DJI admits.
5.) Resolution on Zoom is identicle in every way to the Pro. (Although noise and dynamic range on Pro performs a bit better)
6.) Pro's BEST quality uses the LEAST sensor surface. WORST quality comes from the MOST used sensor surface area. (Binned averhing tecnique)
7.) On Pro..2.7k has same final resolution output as 4k FOV.
8.) DJI says this was all necessary and "the best compromise" because of the M2P's complexity

What we DON'T know.

1.) Why this subsampling (binning) was so necessary?
2.) What processor are they now using? DJI custom?
3.) Is that new processor already possibly maxed out on its ability?
4.) Why did DJI pull the plug on their original launch event. What happened that caused them to do such an extreme thing like that.

Pretty simple points here....

We are all just asking the simple question:

Why DJI.....why?

I know one thing for sure too. "If" DJI left Ambarella and went off into the jungle to design their own image processor...Ambarella MUST be laughing at DJI right now saying: "See?...thats what you get for leaving us!!!"

 

[Robbyg]

You will never get a straight answer from DJI.
They will either just fix the issue if they can or they will ignore it and have their surrogates tell you that it is not an important issue.

Sales may drop a bit but they will keep churning out drones until they make an MP2P with the fixes.

Rob

 

[DidJI]

That's your first post on the Mavic 2 Pro forum? Hahaha!

Hi,
Sorry for appearing by this way
Just a short introduction:
I was on phantompilots when I had a P3P. Then, I bought a Inspire 1 Pro, I use it with the 15mm, the 12 mm and the 45 mm. After I got a MP1, which has a significant number of flight hours.

I was not participating here, but I follow the discussion from the beginning
I was on the way to buy a MP2 (the idea behind was to replace the Inspire), but when I saw the first DNG image and the image distorsion, the idea got frozen. And when I saw the way the sensor is exploited, the idea was definitively killed.
But OK, the Mavic is a nice machine and whatever the version you have, for sure you will be happy with

 

[Cliff_622]

Hi,
Sorry for appearing by this way
Just a short introduction:
I was on phantompilots when I had a P3P. Then, I bought a Inspire 1 Pro, I use it with the 15mm, the 12 mm and the 45 mm. After I got a MP1, which has a significant number of flight hours.

I was not participating here, but I follow the discussion from the beginning
I was on the way to buy a MP2 (the idea behind was to replace the Inspire), but when I saw the first DNG image and the image distorsion, the idea got frozen. And when I saw the way the sensor is exploited, the idea was definitively killed.
But OK, the Mavic is a nice machine and whatever the version you have, for sure you will be happy with

Like I said earlier before. I have had many people tell me the 1080 images they get from their Spark are spectacular and they see no need for anything more.

What can I say to that? Nothing! I cant say they are stupid or wrong. Its all about what works for "you" and you only.

If someone loves FOV and says its amazing. Thats awesome...for them. I cant criticize them...right?

 

[BlueBay]

What we now know.

1.) FOV is significantly softer than HQ
2.) FOV sub-samples (pixel bins) to reach a downsized sensor sample data capture.
3.) DJI now ADMITS this proces has a negative impact on image quality.
4.) This cant be dismissed as "not noticable". It is and we all see what DJI admits.
5.) Resolution on Zoom is identicle in every way to the Pro. (Although noise and dynamic range on Pro performs a bit better)
6.) Pro's BEST quality uses the LEAST sensor surface. WORST quality comes from the MOST used sensor surface area. (Binned averhing tecnique)
7.) On Pro..2.7k has same final resolution output as 4k FOV.
8.) DJI says this was all necessary and "the best compromise" because of the M2P's complexity

What we DON'T know.

1.) Why this subsampling (binning) was so necessary?
2.) What processor are they now using? DJI custom?
3.) Is that new processor already possibly maxed out on its ability?
4.) Why did DJI pull the plug on their original launch event. What happened that caused them to do such an extreme thing like that.

Pretty simple points here....

We are all just asking the simple question:

Why DJI.....why?

I know one thing for sure too. "If" DJI left Ambarella and went off into the jungle to design their own image processor...Ambarella MUST be laughing at DJI right now saying: "See?...thats what you get for leaving us!!!"

Spot on, I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[pa2x]

Like I said earlier before. I have had many people tell me the 1080 images they get from their Spark are spectacular and they see no need for anything more.

What can I say to that? Nothing! I cant say they are stupid or wrong. Its all about what works for "you" and you only.

If someone loves FOV and says its amazing. Thats awesome...for them. I cant criticize them...right?

I think Spark has a better footage than Mavic Air in 1080p which is it’s higher resolution!

 

[BlueBay]

Another good unbiased video that supports this issue regarding below par resolution concerns of the M2P.

 

[Bobnecat]

Seriously, Lon Denard you seem to be either criticising or patronising people in an impolite way. I'd don't like to see people leave the discussion because of your comments, no matter how new they are to this forum. You should be aware of the title of this thread in addition to the terms and rules of this board. Please stay within context of this thread or post your comments elsewhere. A lot of people choose to take this thread seriously as it provides a much deeper understanding of the M2P.

That person's intent is to flood all the topics that are questioning DJI's quality and steer people away from discussions on the subject matter. He has high comment count, but those comments are mainly not the ones that bring value but are those of provocative origin. He does the same on youtube leaving at least a dozen comments under each critical video (in fact I laughed when I saw the multitude of his commenting in there), as well potentially in the other forum under a different name. I doubt DJI is paying him so I don't understand why would anyone spend so much time trolling others. Maybe it gives him inner satisfaction, don't know.

I have registered here because I have noticed something was going wrong with what I was seeing from Mavic 2 Pro, and in this threat I have found answers, but now decided to steer away from commenting anything further, just not to feed this troll.

 

[Lon Denard]

Wether or not anyone is happy with the existing performance of the M2P, we should analyze, critique we should hold DJIs feet to the fire and push for peak performance on this product.

I don't understand how some are so willing to just accept the flaws that have been observed. I like to think that this conversation will lead to our voices being heard and acknowledged in future enhancements.

Just take short walk with me for a moment... Is it even just slightly possible that this is the best that can be done with this form factor, equipment, situation, etc? Isn't the drone better than the Mavic 1 Pro? Isn't that actually what DJI promised?

You guys have really short memories. I remember that it was a really big deal that they got a 1 inch TYPE (Cliff) in a Phantom. Minds were blown! Two years ago it was AMAZING what they did with the Mavic Pro. Now they've improved on that with both the Mavic 2 drones. You guys are like the Israelites after Moses freed them from bondage in Egypt...never happy! Hahaha!

 

[Goof]

Just take short walk with me for a moment... Is it even just slightly possible that this is the best that can be done with this form factor, equipment, situation, etc?

Maybe. Would be nice if DJI would just put a lid on their condescension and just say that if that's the case. But then I guess if they turn around next year and make a M2PP that's somehow even better people would turn on them anyway and ask why it wasn't done that way in the first place...

 

[Lon Denard]

Okay, I keep hearing people use the word "hype" as in "DJI hyped this drone too much!"

Okay, here's the only release information from DJI that I can find. The launch event. I challenge anyone to show me where DJI claimed the Mavic 2 Pro has as good of video as the P4P? Show me where they presented the M2P as a folding P4P? Please show me all this false hype?

 

[Lon Denard]

Maybe. Would be nice if DJI would just put a lid on their condescension and just say that if that's the case. But then I guess if they turn around next year and make a M2PP that's somehow even better people would turn on them anyway and ask why it wasn't done that way in the first place...

Maybe I should have included "at this time"? I really don't know. I watched Mad RC's video, I contacted DJI and asked a few questions, I downloaded and read the manual cover to cover, I purchased the drone. I honestly feel that it delivered what they promised. No it's not 4k60. No it's not a folding P4P. Etc. I'm not claiming it's perfect or whatever and I'm not trying to convince anyone into buying, why would I? I like debating and I honestly feel like this isn't DJI's fault. This is on YouTube. The same exact guys that were talking the new drone up. Analyzing every leaked photo pixel by pixel. Speculating what the new drone was going to do. Hyping up the new camera and Hasselblad's involvement. I mean they were speculating on who's hand was in one of the pictures. You had a channel claiming that there was going to be a hand held gimbal, a land based vehicle and the camera was going to be removable.