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Misconception about 400 Feet

Hmmm. A 2. (c) says not fly higher than approximately 400' above ground level. So doesn't that mean... if you belong to the AMA and are flying under their rules... to not fly higher than approximately 400' above ground level? Please tell me what I'm missing here. Thanks.

You do not have to be a member of AMA to fly under their policies. The FAA states "under the guidelines of a national based community organization". Also 400' is not necessarily a maximum, many pilots, such as those witch gliders must fly higher due to the thermals, even under the AMA guidelines. If you don't believe, you can contact the AMA and they'll inform you. However you fly, you must be within line of site, if a hobbyist. However you fly, BE Safe.
 
It's a funny thing... there is no legal requirement for hobbyists per se. The FAA can't regulate "model aircraft", but a "model aircraft" can become a UAS in an instant (and thus become subject to FAA regs for UAS re: part 107) if your machine is used in a way outside of what constitutes model aircraft guidelines... so if you fly above 400' AGL, that may be interpreted as leaving the "model aircraft" classification, and then all FAA rules kick in. Suddenly it's a UAS.

If you registered with the FAA you agreed to fly under FAA rules.
 
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You do not have to be a member of AMA to fly under their policies. The FAA states "under the guidelines of a national based community organization". Also 400' is not necessarily a maximum, many pilots, such as those witch gliders must fly higher due to the thermals, even under the AMA guidelines. If you don't believe, you can contact the AMA and they'll inform you. However you fly, you must be within line of site, if a hobbyist. However you fly, BE Safe.

So are you flying under AMA or not? You can't pick and choose parts from different rules to suit your flight.
 
So are you flying under AMA or not? You can't pick and choose parts from different rules to suit your flight.

AMA: (I follow these rules)
"AMA’s 75 years of experience tells us that model aircraft operations above 400’ pose little to no risk to the manned aircraft community. The only time this activity is of concern is when model aircraft are operated in close proximity to airports. As such, AMA stands by its 3mi/400’ safety criteria established in the AMA National Safety Code. Though there are other mitigation measures that may need to be considered, AMA will continue to advocate to maintain the aeromodeling community’s access to the national airspace."

R/C modelers fly things a lot bigger that a hobby drone, and a lot higher, too.

Better to think about ground-based hazards. A drone crashing into the front of a car, with the driver losing control is a much more realistic hazard to worry about. A few of these stories and it could get tough on drone flyers, regardless what the FAA says.
 
A good read! You do understand that this post reinforces what I've been saying? I can't tell if you understood what you posted.

Yes, I do see that the AGL restriction does NOT apply to hobby flights. ... thank you for opening my eyes to this!
 
AMA: (I follow these rules)
"AMA’s 75 years of experience tells us that model aircraft operations above 400’ pose little to no risk to the manned aircraft community. The only time this activity is of concern is when model aircraft are operated in close proximity to airports. As such, AMA stands by its 3mi/400’ safety criteria established in the AMA National Safety Code. Though there are other mitigation measures that may need to be considered, AMA will continue to advocate to maintain the aeromodeling community’s access to the national airspace."

R/C modelers fly things a lot bigger that a hobby drone, and a lot higher, too.

Better to think about ground-based hazards. A drone crashing into the front of a car, with the driver losing control is a much more realistic hazard to worry about. A few of these stories and it could get tough on drone flyers, regardless what the FAA says.

So then you flying by something in a mission statement? That's cool! The problem I see is that drones, hobby or not, don't GLIDE very well and therefore have no business above 400'. I certainly don't know the AMA stance on gliding drones but it's not hard to guess.
I agree about ground based hazards. But flying above 400' to avoid a car windshield will just make the crash worse. Well, maybe not. I'm not sure at what height a Mavic achieves terminal velocity when gliding out of the sky. You may be right.
 
So then you flying by something in a mission statement? That's cool! The problem I see is that drones, hobby or not, don't GLIDE very well and therefore have no business above 400'. I certainly don't know the AMA stance on gliding drones but it's not hard to guess.
I agree about ground based hazards. But flying above 400' to avoid a car windshield will just make the crash worse. Well, maybe not. I'm not sure at what height a Mavic achieves terminal velocity when gliding out of the sky. You may be right.
The AMA's actual document on sUAS's:
 

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Looks like there is a lot of misinformation / confusion in this thread. Here are the legal reasons (with sources cited) why the 400' rule does not apply to recreational users.

Here is why:

In 2012 congress passed public law 112-95 Section 336 "Special rules for certain unmanned aircraft systems." See page 67. It states that as long as you are operating under the following rules, the FAA may NOT make any rules regarding said model aircraft:

- Operating recreationally. (So this does NOT apply to those operating commercially. Thus the FAA can makes rules... resulting in FAA part 107 which includes the 400' AGL requirement among other rules)
- Operated within a community based set of safety guidelines. (The AMA is the most common one. Their safety code only requires you fly under 400' AGL if you are within 3 miles of an airport.)
- Under 55 pounds
- Operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft
- When flown within 5 miles of an airport, notifies the airport of your plans
(If the tower objects with a legitimate reason the FAA considers this endangering the NAS (National Airspace System) and thus you are breaking the law.)
- It is also noted in the definition of the "Model Aircraft" that it "...is flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft"( This rule seems to be broken all the time, but you can easily fly higher than 400' and still see it.

So in order for you to be exempt from any rulings of the FAA, you must be operating within those parameters. Essentially these are your rules. However this does not apply to airspace requirements that apply to all type of aircraft, such as TFR's (temporary flight restrictions).

The FAA has acknowledged section 336 in this statement. The document explains FAA's interpretation of the vague section 336. The only mention of 400' AGL in this document is a mention of a "recommended set of voluntary operating standards" listed in 1981 in the background explanation of the document. The document further clarifies each of the section 336 requirements, but does not interpret the law in such a way that requires the aircraft to stay under 400' AGL.

I am not saying that you should just blow off the < 400' AGL guideline without being careful and being aware of low flying aircraft. That would be endangering the NAS which section 336 of course does not permit. And it would be stupid. What I am saying is that it is perfectly legal to fly as high as you want as long as you are maintaining line of sight, watching out of other aircraft, and not entering some kind of restricted airspace.

And if all of that doesnt convise you, here is a letter from the FAA basicly confirming everything here: http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/files/2016/07/FAA-400feet.pdf

Some people will say "Well the FAA requires me to register my drone and that isn't listed in 336 so how is that allowed?" It arguably is not, but the FAA says that registering any aircraft is a pre-existing condition prior to 336 and thus not "new regulation". EDIT: In fact, it was struck down in court yesterday, proving how strong 336 is.

On another note... Any state, local, or business laws, ordinances, or rules forbidding drones from flying within their airspace conflict with federal law as the FAA has jurisdiction over all airspace. The states, cities, and business do not. They can say "you are not allowed to operate a drone while standing within our jurisdiction", but they cannot tell you that you cannot fly over it. Interesting fact that many don't realize, but good luck explaining that to the cops and code enforcement when their law says otherwise.
 
This has been a great read. Thanks everyone for all the great info and sources. I do have one question though.

Although my Mavic is registered as a commercial drone (because I use it occasionally with my business) I love to fly it recreationally as well. Am I restricted to 107 rules because of the commercial registration regardless of most flights being recreational?
 
When you register your drone you make a commitment to stay below 400', and not to fly over people or property. Rules or not, in a court they could claim you agreed to their recommendations.

Like a Drivers License, many claim you don't need it to travel in the USA.... however once you get a license you agree to obey the law.

I believe once you get your bird registered through the FAA, you are agreeing to follow their recommendations.

But I'm not sure either

Wonder how that will work if they uphold the ruling about registration....
 
As far as flying over private property goes you are bound to maintain a strict hard deck of at least 200' AGL. Anything less than that and you are completely in the wrong

References? Being as you're also in Texas I've been struggling with the lousy laws the legislature has saddled us with.
It appears the actual defining item with private property is "intent to surveil". I would read that to mean that just a flyover would be ok as long as you're not targeting someone or something for an extended look.
 
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