Most of you don't understand the regulations.

[MiniPalourde]

This is not a rant, but I've seen a lot of misinformation on this forum about regulations. I'll try to explain clearly the regulations concerning recreational use of UAVs in the USA, more precisely section 336.


As you all know, the FAA has control over most things that flies. They make the regulations and laws concerning civil aviation. But they have no control over hobbyists that fly drones for recreational purposes, and that's because of section 336.

Section 336 allows you to qualify as an hobbyist flying for recreational purposes, which blocks the FAA from regulating you. In other words, if you qualify as an hobbyist, the FAA has no control over you.


Now, here's the big question: How do I qualify as an hobbyist (how can I be covered by section 336)?

To qualify as an hobbyist, you MUST meet certain requirements or you won't be covered by section 336. In other words, you need to meet these requirement if you wish to stay legal.

To qualify as an hobbyist flying for recreational purposes, your aircraft:

1 -must be flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;

2 -must be limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified;

3 -must be operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft;

4 -when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft must provide the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower

5 -must be operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;


Now, the first 4 requirements are straight-forward. It's the last one thats tricky, very tricky. The fifth requirement is the cause of so much confusion in all drone communities, so I'll take the time to explain it.

The fifth requirement tells you to respect safety guidelines of a nationwide community-based organization. That's not every organization. The only organization that fits this description as of right now is the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA).

So basically, IN ADDITION to following the requirements above, you must also respect the safety guidelines of the AMA. These 'guidelines' are not just guidelines, they absolutely must be followed to meet the fifth requirement and be covered by section 336.

Here are some safety guidelines of the AMA:

-Do not fly higher than approximately 400 feet above ground level within three (3) miles of an airport without notifying the airport operator.

-Do not fly near stadiums, critical infrastructure (correctional facilities, water treatment centers, utilities, etc.), large open air events, or any time or place where model aircraft operations are prohibited.

-Do not fly over unprotected people, moving vehicles, and occupied structures.

-and much more....


To learn about the other safety guidelines of the AMA, read this PDF: https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/100.pdf

 

[Just_nick]

Wrong. FAA still has control over you, they just don't regulate you in the same way that they do a 107 because of the agreement with the AMA.

 

[ac0j]

LOL! If this was the case, the FAA would have no reason to collect our names and charge us for an ID#.

I am beginning to think there are a lot of people that dont 100% understand the whole regulations thing.

 

[melmartin]

Quite a generalization in your title. I'll probably hesitate a bit to take advice from a guy who crashed his drone into a canyon. Please lighten up.

 

[msinger]

The fifth requirement tells you to respect safety guidelines of a nationwide community-based organization. That's not every organization. The only organization that fits this description as of right now is the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA).

FYI, US law does not name the AMA as a CBO. It only defines a CBO. Furthermore, the FAA has not been tasked to create a list of organizations that are acceptable CBOs.

 

[RayOZ]

I think most people interpret laws and regulations as it suits them. It's not so much about understanding them. If there are too many words, they are mentally filtered down to how they want it to mean. There's always a lot of words, and we've been conditioned to read ~140 characters at a time and or just headlines and make assumptions about the content.

 

[MiniPalourde]

Quite a generalization in your title. I'll probably hesitate a bit to take advice from a guy who crashed his drone into a canyon. Please lighten up.

...due to mechanical failure, using a battery that hundreds of others have used without problems.

Context is key. And we're not in middle-school anymore, your 'bullying' is idiotic at best.

 

[MiniPalourde]

Wrong. FAA still has control over you, they just don't regulate you in the same way that they do a 107 because of the agreement with the AMA.

No. They cannot regulate you if you follow the requirements as stated in section 336. Why else would the FAA be fighting right now to abolish 336?

"The Federal Aviation Administration
may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if (requirements are met)"

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0M1TZBXarvq57LHYzcORDL

Also, there was no agreement with the AMA. The AMA is not cited anywhere in the US Law as the 'accepted community-based organisation', but it fits the description of requirement #5.

 

[MiniPalourde]

LOL! If this was the case, the FAA would have no reason to collect our names and charge us for an ID#.

I am beginning to think there are a lot of people that dont 100% understand the whole regulations thing.

Man, you're starting to look really, really ****. Please do yourself a favor and read about the regulations, eh?

 

[MiniPalourde]

FYI, US law does not name the AMA as a CBO. It only defines a CBO. Furthermore, the FAA has not been tasked to create a list of organizations that are acceptable CBOs.

Yep, that's right. The AMA only matches the description, but is not specifically accepted by the US Law.

 

[melmartin]

...due to mechanical failure, using a battery that hundreds of others have used without problems.

Context is key. And we're not in middle-school anymore, your 'bullying' is idiotic at best.

Where is your log???

 

[ac0j]

Man, you're starting to look really, really ****. Please do yourself a favor and read about the regulations, eh?

OK, and you read about battery chemistry, OK?
Because you have a better chance of dropping a drone on someone than I do, and I dont claim to be an expert.

 

[dirkclod]

Are we still on the OP's topic guys...
Also let's..

 

[Weaponized]

You might want to read AC circular No. 91-57A. You're being regulated. By the FAA.

 

[laurens23]

I'm no (law) expert and I do I fly in the USA, but I know you are missing some important points. Section 336 consists of three parts (A), (B), (C). you mention only the 5 points from part (A). Below how I would interpret section 336.

SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.

section 336 (A)

IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—

This tells you that, unless the FAA changes other plans and policies that includes drones, they cannot publish any rules or regulations for section 336 drones if you follow the 5 points below. They can however change there policy, rewrite or even remove section 336. What they cannot do is publish additional rules covering recreational use of drones.

(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a communitybased set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
(3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;
(4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and
(5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport)).

1: no commercial flying, but also no flying for non profit organisations etc.
2: you must follow AMA safety guidelines
3: <55 pounds or certified by the AMA
4: stay away from any don't interfere with any manned aircraft
5: when within 5 miles of an airport you need to inform the FBO and if present also the ATC tower. You can set up a mutual-agreement if you regularly fly in the area.

note: you only need to inform the airport, not request permission. HOWEVER, according point 4 you are also not allowed to interfere with manned aircraft. Therefore if the airport tells you not to fly you cannot fly because if you do, you are interfering with the manned aircraft at that airport.

section 336 (B)

STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who endanger the safety of the national airspace system.

In short if you do stupid **** the FAA can most definitely come after you.

section 336 (C)

MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘‘model aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft that is—
(1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;
(2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and
(3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes."

point 2 tells us to fly within visual line of sight. When you are NOT flying within VLOS it is no longer defines as a model aircraft and you no longer follow section 336.
This means anything with goggles can't be 336, even with a spotter.
How far you can fly is a grey area. VLOS is not defined, and varies based on weather conditions and the eyes of the operator. the AMA has some more details (see my next post)

PS: Section 336 is created by the FAA. Therefore per definition they have control over a hobbyist.
PPS: all above is just my interpretation which may or may not be correct

 

[sar104]

This is not a rant, but I've seen a lot of misinformation on this forum about regulations. I'll try to explain clearly the regulations concerning recreational use of UAVs in the USA, more precisely section 336.


As you all know, the FAA has control over most things that flies. They make the regulations and laws concerning civil aviation. But they have no control over hobbyists that fly drones for recreational purposes, and that's because of section 336.

Section 336 allows you to qualify as an hobbyist flying for recreational purposes, which blocks the FAA from regulating you. In other words, if you qualify as an hobbyist, the FAA has no control over you.


Now, here's the big question: How do I qualify as an hobbyist (how can I be covered by section 336)?

To qualify as an hobbyist, you MUST meet certain requirements or you won't be covered by section 336. In other words, you need to meet these requirement if you wish to stay legal.

To qualify as an hobbyist flying for recreational purposes, your aircraft:

1 -must be flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;

2 -must be limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified;

3 -must be operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft;

4 -when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft must provide the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower

5 -must be operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;


Now, the first 4 requirements are straight-forward. It's the last one thats tricky, very tricky. The fifth requirement is the cause of so much confusion in all drone communities, so I'll take the time to explain it.

The fifth requirement tells you to respect safety guidelines of a nationwide community-based organization. That's not every organization. The only organization that fits this description as of right now is the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA).

So basically, IN ADDITION to following the requirements above, you must also respect the safety guidelines of the AMA. These 'guidelines' are not just guidelines, they absolutely must be followed to meet the fifth requirement and be covered by section 336.

Here are some safety guidelines of the AMA:

-Do not fly higher than approximately 400 feet above ground level within three (3) miles of an airport without notifying the airport operator.

-Do not fly near stadiums, critical infrastructure (correctional facilities, water treatment centers, utilities, etc.), large open air events, or any time or place where model aircraft operations are prohibited.

-Do not fly over unprotected people, moving vehicles, and occupied structures.

-and much more....


To learn about the other safety guidelines of the AMA, read this PDF: https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/100.pdf

You are somewhat correct. What Congress did with FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, Public Law 112-95 Section 336, was prevent the FAA from adding any additional regulation of model aircraft flight. However, they still get to define hobby use and they do have some regulatory power over hobbyists, as codified in 14 CFR Part 101 Subpart E, which states the following:

§101.41 Applicability.
This subpart prescribes rules governing the operation of a model aircraft (or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft) that meets all of the following conditions as set forth in section 336 of Public Law 112-95:

(a) The aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;

(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;

(c) The aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;

(d) The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and

(e) When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.

§101.43 Endangering the safety of the National Airspace System.
No person may operate model aircraft so as to endanger the safety of the national airspace system.
​

In fact there is only one regulatory requirement here, and that is stated in 101.43. As you stated, applicability defines the conditions that must be met to be exempt from the broader umbrella of Part 107, but 101.43 does give the FAA regulatory teeth to pursue dangerous flying, even if it satisfies 101.41.

What is often misunderstood is that failure to follow any of the requirements of 101.41 doesn't breach the law per se - it simply removes the hobbyist protection of Part 101, and instead places the operator back under Part 107 which is actually the overarching law on sUAS operation, as stated in 107.1:

§107.1 Applicability.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, this part applies to the registration, airman certification, and operation of civil small unmanned aircraft systems within the United States.

(b) This part does not apply to the following:

(1) Air carrier operations;

(2) Any aircraft subject to the provisions of part 101 of this chapter; or

(3) Any operation that a remote pilot in command elects to conduct pursuant to an exemption issued under section 333 of Public Law 112-95, unless otherwise specified in the exemption.​

 

[laurens23]

AMA safety guidelines.

to comply with 336 you have to follow AMA safety guidelines. These are quite a bit more extensive and detailed than just 336. Some interesting points relevant to Mavic drones are:

I will not operate any model aircraft while I am under the influence of alcohol or any drug that could adversely affect my ability to safely control the model.

pretty obvious I guess,

I will avoid flying directly over unprotected people, moving vehicles, and occupied structures.

I will maintain visual contact of an RC model aircraft without enhancement other than corrective lenses prescribed to me. When using an advanced flight system, such as an autopilot, or flying First-Person View (FPV), I will comply with AMA’s Advanced Flight System programming.

when you delve into the AMA’s Advanced Flight System programming it will become a mess because this is aimed at DIY and not DJI.
for example the first rule is:

"AMA pilots should first be capable of manually flying their sUAS without utilizing GPS or Intelligent Orientation Control (IOC)."

kind of hard with a Mavic that has no ATTI switch....

A spotter should be used to assist in monitoring the surrounding airspace for manned aircraft whenever a flight is expected to exceed 400 feet above the ground and that operation is expected to be in proximity to known manned aircraft traffic such as at a mixed-use facility or within three miles of an airport. The spotter must have sufficient visual acuity and be mature enough to take this responsibility very seriously.

here we have the only mention of the 400ft limit. So to end the debate, flying over 400ft is not per definition illegal, but requires a spotter and should not be done recklessly or BVLOS.

4. If a model aircraft pilot experiences what he or she considers a near miss with a manned aircraft, that model aircraft pilot should notify AMA Headquarters with a written report of the incident, including action taken by the model aircraft pilot to avoid the manned aircraft. This report is intended to help the modeler, the club, and the AMA capture as much detail as possible so that it may be used to assist all parties in recalling the particulars of the incident at a later time. Call 1-800-435-9262 (1-800-IFLYAMA) extension 230 or 251 for assistance with this report.

I will not fly a powered model outdoors closer than 25 feet to any individual, except for myself or my helper(s) located at the flightline, unless I am taking off and landing, or as otherwise provided in AMA’s Competition Regulation.

there is a lot more, but these were some things that popped out to me.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

if you qualify as an hobbyist, the FAA has no control over you.

And because of that delusional thinking is exactly why 336 is on the endangered species list!

 

[howardpin]

So if I want to fly my drone at a high school football stadium to shoot video for the marching band. After the game and the drone is flying over people in the stands.

Would that had been considered illegal under 336?

 

[Elton Hammonds]

I'm no (law) expert and I do I fly in the USA, but I know you are missing some important points. Section 336 consists of three parts (A), (B), (C). you mention only the 5 points from part (A). Below how I would interpret section 336.

SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.

section 336 (A)


This tells you that, unless the FAA changes other plans and policies that includes drones, they cannot publish any rules or regulations for section 336 drones if you follow the 5 points below. They can however change there policy, rewrite or even remove section 336. What they cannot do is publish additional rules covering recreational use of drones.



1: no commercial flying, but also no flying for non profit organisations etc.
2: you must follow AMA safety guidelines
3: <55 pounds or certified by the AMA
4: stay away from any don't interfere with any manned aircraft
5: when within 5 miles of an airport you need to inform the FBO and if present also the ATC tower. You can set up a mutual-agreement if you regularly fly in the area.

note: you only need to inform the airport, not request permission. HOWEVER, according point 4 you are also not allowed to interfere with manned aircraft. Therefore if the airport tells you not to fly you cannot fly because if you do, you are interfering with the manned aircraft at that airport.

section 336 (B)


In short if you do stupid **** the FAA can most definitely come after you.

section 336 (C)


point 2 tells us to fly within visual line of sight. When you are NOT flying within VLOS it is no longer defines as a model aircraft and you no longer follow section 336.
This means anything with goggles can't be 336, even with a spotter.
How far you can fly is a grey area. VLOS is not defined, and varies based on weather conditions and the eyes of the operator. the AMA has some more details (see my next post)

PS: Section 336 is created by the FAA. Therefore per definition they have control over a hobbyist.
PPS: all above is just my interpretation which may or may not be correct

My wife has goggles and is just a JAFO and any judge will agree with that.