Neighbors, and back-yard flying

[ChipDjipro]

Fly your drone and don’t cave in. Let her complain. Fly your drone.

?

 

[Hauptmann]

Hi everyone.

I'm still new. I'm still reading, researching, and learning about this hobby. I was over at my parents house last week, swimming and grilling out. I brought the drone to show it to my dad. I took it up in his back yard, and zipped around a little, followed my kids with it while they ran around the yard, went up to 250' to catch a sunset picture, and back down. It wasn't up long, and I never left his backyard.


We were over again yesterday, and he showed me a letter he got in the mail...

View attachment 101802

I'd like to go ahead and add, that I've decided to not fly in his yard anymore, legal or not. I'd also like to add, that not only did I never fly near the fence, I wasn't recording. I absolutely do not want to escalate the situation. We don't need more people hating drones, getting more laws passed against them. (Also, how does someone say something like "It was pointed directly at me, and filming me" when they clearly have NO idea if that's true /s)

The legality gets so confusing for stuff like this. At least to me. I'm not great at reading case law.

She's one of those neighbors that complains about everything. We had my 30th birthday by the pool, a few years back, and we had the music on. It wasn't loud. Maybe a few decibels louder than a normal speaking volume. My kids swimming made far louder noise, and she called the cops.

This time, no police, but I imagine it's because when she called, they told her it was a legal activity?

As far as I understand it, flying around your own back yard is legal, unless you're intentionally performing surveillance. I've read a little about the "reasonable expectation of privacy" thing, and that also gets confusing. There is a lot of case law in both directions... There is a privacy fence, but it's owned by my parents. I'd still assume you have reasonable expectation of privacy in your fenced back-yard though, so that's added to my decision to not fly there anymore.

I can't find a lot of great resources to read specific law, but I've read everything I can on the federal and state level.

Anyone have some insight on this?

Thanks in advance!

Right now, I'm considering going over one day, knocking on her door, and apologizing. Offering to educate her a little on the drone, and the laws governing them, but I don't think it would do any good.

Don't try to "educate" or apologize. She may well complain about that too, which could make matters worse. In any case, your parents are the ones who will have to live near this woman, so think of them. It's probably best that you leave her alone to the perhaps unhappy life she has earned. You owe her nothing, so don't waste another second of your time even thinking about her.

That said, if your folks are up for it, you might consider buying dad a $25 cameraless drone (like the Snaptain H823H) he can fly in his own back yard. No privacy issues there. That should cheese off the old crone, and leave her no avenue of recourse. But ONLY IF dad and mom are up for it!

 

[lookout]

The news helicopter says that when they're up in federal airspace (usually above 400' agl), that nobody has an expectation of privacy there. But apparently it's a different story with a drone.
Even if the news helicopter is milking you for all you're worth just to get a big rank in the 6 o clock news.

 

[lookout]

Don't try to "educate" or apologize. She may well complain about that too, which could make matters worse. In any case, your parents are the ones who will have to live near this woman, so think of them. It's probably best that you leave her alone to the perhaps unhappy life she has earned. You owe her nothing, so don't waste another second of your time even thinking about her.

That said, if your folks are up for it, you might consider buying dad a $25 cameraless drone (like the Snaptain H823H) he can fly in his own back yard. No privacy issues there. That should cheese off the old crone, and leave her no avenue of recourse. But ONLY IF dad and mom are up for it!

I can just peek over the fence and do the same thing as flying the drone around. But as far as I can tell the drone doesn't have any more powerful camera than the one on my phone (that refuses to allow me to focus it).

 

[Ang]

Hi everyone.

I'm still new. I'm still reading, researching, and learning about this hobby. I was over at my parents house last week, swimming and grilling out. I brought the drone to show it to my dad. I took it up in his back yard, and zipped around a little, followed my kids with it while they ran around the yard, went up to 250' to catch a sunset picture, and back down. It wasn't up long, and I never left his backyard.


We were over again yesterday, and he showed me a letter he got in the mail...

View attachment 101802

I'd like to go ahead and add, that I've decided to not fly in his yard anymore, legal or not. I'd also like to add, that not only did I never fly near the fence, I wasn't recording. I absolutely do not want to escalate the situation. We don't need more people hating drones, getting more laws passed against them. (Also, how does someone say something like "It was pointed directly at me, and filming me" when they clearly have NO idea if that's true /s)

The legality gets so confusing for stuff like this. At least to me. I'm not great at reading case law.

She's one of those neighbors that complains about everything. We had my 30th birthday by the pool, a few years back, and we had the music on. It wasn't loud. Maybe a few decibels louder than a normal speaking volume. My kids swimming made far louder noise, and she called the cops.

This time, no police, but I imagine it's because when she called, they told her it was a legal activity?

As far as I understand it, flying around your own back yard is legal, unless you're intentionally performing surveillance. I've read a little about the "reasonable expectation of privacy" thing, and that also gets confusing. There is a lot of case law in both directions... There is a privacy fence, but it's owned by my parents. I'd still assume you have reasonable expectation of privacy in your fenced back-yard though, so that's added to my decision to not fly there anymore.

I can't find a lot of great resources to read specific law, but I've read everything I can on the federal and state level.

Anyone have some insight on this?

Thanks in advance!

Right now, I'm considering going over one day, knocking on her door, and apologizing. Offering to educate her a little on the drone, and the laws governing them, but I don't think it would do any good.

so go 100ft in the air, and fly directly over their house (assuming your in the US) that is 100% legal and they cant do **** about it
don't apologize to an idiot who doesn't understand basic laws and sent a letter because they are entitled. also, check if that was actually sent through the USPS. if not you can have them arrested for tampering with your mail and mailbox.

 

[trekgod3]

Law is a little different here in Florida

"
SB 766 // 2015

This law prohibits the use of a drone to capture an image of privately owned property or the owner, tenant, or occupant of such property without consent if a reasonable expectation of privacy exists."

This makes it sound like if you simply record an image of someone's property while in the air, it's illegal.

 

[sar104]

Law is a little different here in Florida

"
SB 766 // 2015

This law prohibits the use of a drone to capture an image of privately owned property or the owner, tenant, or occupant of such property without consent if a reasonable expectation of privacy exists."

This makes it sound like if you simply record an image of someone's property while in the air, it's illegal.

No, because you only partially quoted the bill:

Surveillance by a Drone; Prohibiting a person, a state agency, or a political subdivision from using a drone to capture an image of privately owned real property or of the owner, tenant, occupant, invitee, or licensee of such property with the intent to conduct surveillance without his or her written consent if a reasonable expectation of privacy exists​

​

Incidental video and images do not include the necessary intent.

 

[CenlaUAS]

I have run into these type of people here in Louisiana. As a Part 107 pilot, I am very aware of laws, rules and regulations. I carry all my paperwork along with copies of Louisiana laws and Federal regulations. When I encounter people like in your situation, I calmly explain what I doing and why I’m doing it. Nine out of ten times issue resolved. Otherwise I do not engage with them. If the law shows up, I explain to them the situation. Only one time have I been asked to stop flying by LEO. I then proceeded to educate the officer and was told I was not doing anything wrong. Education is key. If you are not doing anything wrong, don’t give in.

 

[Donnie Frank]

Hi everyone.

I'm still new. I'm still reading, researching, and learning about this hobby. I was over at my parents house last week, swimming and grilling out. I brought the drone to show it to my dad. I took it up in his back yard, and zipped around a little, followed my kids with it while they ran around the yard, went up to 250' to catch a sunset picture, and back down. It wasn't up long, and I never left his backyard.


We were over again yesterday, and he showed me a letter he got in the mail...

View attachment 101802

I'd like to go ahead and add, that I've decided to not fly in his yard anymore, legal or not. I'd also like to add, that not only did I never fly near the fence, I wasn't recording. I absolutely do not want to escalate the situation. We don't need more people hating drones, getting more laws passed against them. (Also, how does someone say something like "It was pointed directly at me, and filming me" when they clearly have NO idea if that's true /s)

The legality gets so confusing for stuff like this. At least to me. I'm not great at reading case law.

She's one of those neighbors that complains about everything. We had my 30th birthday by the pool, a few years back, and we had the music on. It wasn't loud. Maybe a few decibels louder than a normal speaking volume. My kids swimming made far louder noise, and she called the cops.

This time, no police, but I imagine it's because when she called, they told her it was a legal activity?

As far as I understand it, flying around your own back yard is legal, unless you're intentionally performing surveillance. I've read a little about the "reasonable expectation of privacy" thing, and that also gets confusing. There is a lot of case law in both directions... There is a privacy fence, but it's owned by my parents. I'd still assume you have reasonable expectation of privacy in your fenced back-yard though, so that's added to my decision to not fly there anymore.

I can't find a lot of great resources to read specific law, but I've read everything I can on the federal and state level.

Anyone have some insight on this?

Thanks in advance!

Right now, I'm considering going over one day, knocking on her door, and apologizing. Offering to educate her a little on the drone, and the laws governing them, but I don't think it would do any good.

Because it's your parents, you are choosing your battles wisely. If it were me, I would simply not fly there any more. If it were MY house and MY neighbor, there would be a follow-up discussion. But since it's your parents, no use making their lives miserable with combative neighbors.

FWIW, in these situations I keep the camera rolling the entire time so you can prove you're NOT filming someone. However, you will find that some people, despite all the proof in the world, have a hard time departing from their fear narrative.

And yes, legally, the neighbors haven't a leg to stand on. But whatever. It's yer folks. Let sleeping tigers lay.

D

 

[rob levine]

Hi everyone.

I'm still new. I'm still reading, researching, and learning about this hobby. I was over at my parents house last week, swimming and grilling out. I brought the drone to show it to my dad. I took it up in his back yard, and zipped around a little, followed my kids with it while they ran around the yard, went up to 250' to catch a sunset picture, and back down. It wasn't up long, and I never left his backyard.


We were over again yesterday, and he showed me a letter he got in the mail...

View attachment 101802

I'd like to go ahead and add, that I've decided to not fly in his yard anymore, legal or not. I'd also like to add, that not only did I never fly near the fence, I wasn't recording. I absolutely do not want to escalate the situation. We don't need more people hating drones, getting more laws passed against them. (Also, how does someone say something like "It was pointed directly at me, and filming me" when they clearly have NO idea if that's true /s)

The legality gets so confusing for stuff like this. At least to me. I'm not great at reading case law.

She's one of those neighbors that complains about everything. We had my 30th birthday by the pool, a few years back, and we had the music on. It wasn't loud. Maybe a few decibels louder than a normal speaking volume. My kids swimming made far louder noise, and she called the cops.

This time, no police, but I imagine it's because when she called, they told her it was a legal activity?

As far as I understand it, flying around your own back yard is legal, unless you're intentionally performing surveillance. I've read a little about the "reasonable expectation of privacy" thing, and that also gets confusing. There is a lot of case law in both directions... There is a privacy fence, but it's owned by my parents. I'd still assume you have reasonable expectation of privacy in your fenced back-yard though, so that's added to my decision to not fly there anymore.

I can't find a lot of great resources to read specific law, but I've read everything I can on the federal and state level.

Anyone have some insight on this?

Thanks in advance!

Right now, I'm considering going over one day, knocking on her door, and apologizing. Offering to educate her a little on the drone, and the laws governing them, but I don't think it would do any good.

1) I wouldn't engage them. No point. 2) The airspace is controlled by the FAA from the ground up. There are ideas about how high a homeowner can control the air, but no laws. Technically you don't own the air over your house. That said, most people like to get up to like 200' or so before flying over someone's house - which is totally legal. 3) People are protected by regular privacy laws, and laws against peeping Toms, so if someone really was peeping they would be subject to legal sanctions.

 

[lookout]

Because it's your parents, you are choosing your battles wisely. If it were me, I would simply not fly there any more. If it were MY house and MY neighbor, there would be a follow-up discussion. But since it's your parents, no use making their lives miserable with combative neighbors.

FWIW, in these situations I keep the camera rolling the entire time so you can prove you're NOT filming someone. However, you will find that some people, despite all the proof in the world, have a hard time departing from their fear narrative.

And yes, legally, the neighbors haven't a leg to stand on. But whatever. It's yer folks. Let sleeping tigers lay.

D

I didn't see that bbq until after I played the video back.

I was too busy flying the drone.

The corona virus fear narrative maybe?

 

[Above&Beyond]

I had issues in Australia in a small country town , l had a guy come over stating the usual , " you cant fly over my house " crap l use to always try and explain, be nice and be understanding, but some people just wont listen.
Then l bought a jet ski, ok now lm the most hated person cause l have the 2 most hated hobbies on the planet. As l am also an ex prison officer , l have a low tolerance for stupidity.
Now l say " yup think what ever you like, if you would like to listen l will explain , if you want to rant , best you go away" oh and call the police if you wish. ohhh and use an APP like UAV forecast lol make sure youre legal

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Then l bought a jet ski, ok now lm the most hated person cause l have the 2 most hated hobbies on the planet.

use an APP like UAV forecast lol make sure youre legal

Oooh, wanna be around when you fly the drone low overhead tracking yourself while idling along on the jetski ?
You'll need a wingman to fend off the aggressive crowds.

You're right, jet skiers going 60 - 70 km/hr near swimmers are the drone pilots equivalent to hovering over peoples backyard pools.
Only takes a few to tarnish the reputation of the masses.

UAV forecast is a great app to see if wind etc is ok to fly, you're thinking of OpenSky, Air Mobility, OK2Fly, AirMap, etc ?
Drone safety apps

 

[Smalls]

I live in a neighborhood (USA) that has an HOA and a community web site. Before I flew a few weeks ago to shoot a neighbors roof for hail damage I posted my flight day and time ahead of time as a courtesy. As a result several of the neighbors came out with their kids to watch and check it out. The result was that everyone that came out had a positive attitude toward me and the drone. The kids were fascinated. Sounds like you are, always take the high road. I only takes one drone pilot with attitude to keep the pot stirred!

This is a really cool idea. I can see something like this going over really well right now. After the see what it can do AND WHAT IT CANNOT DO you may end up with some new friends or people asking for help looking at their roofs. Great approach

 

[timlyg]

chat is the best medicine. You want to make friends with your neighbors, not enemies. #anti-individualism.

 

[MEFfly]

since it is topical right now, i'll say it... she's a Karen!

 

[DrHarwell]

Hi everyone.

I'm still new. I'm still reading, researching, and learning about this hobby. I was over at my parents house last week, swimming and grilling out. I brought the drone to show it to my dad. I took it up in his back yard, and zipped around a little, followed my kids with it while they ran around the yard, went up to 250' to catch a sunset picture, and back down. It wasn't up long, and I never left his backyard.


We were over again yesterday, and he showed me a letter he got in the mail...

View attachment 101802

I'd like to go ahead and add, that I've decided to not fly in his yard anymore, legal or not. I'd also like to add, that not only did I never fly near the fence, I wasn't recording. I absolutely do not want to escalate the situation. We don't need more people hating drones, getting more laws passed against them. (Also, how does someone say something like "It was pointed directly at me, and filming me" when they clearly have NO idea if that's true /s)

The legality gets so confusing for stuff like this. At least to me. I'm not great at reading case law.

She's one of those neighbors that complains about everything. We had my 30th birthday by the pool, a few years back, and we had the music on. It wasn't loud. Maybe a few decibels louder than a normal speaking volume. My kids swimming made far louder noise, and she called the cops.

This time, no police, but I imagine it's because when she called, they told her it was a legal activity?

As far as I understand it, flying around your own back yard is legal, unless you're intentionally performing surveillance. I've read a little about the "reasonable expectation of privacy" thing, and that also gets confusing. There is a lot of case law in both directions... There is a privacy fence, but it's owned by my parents. I'd still assume you have reasonable expectation of privacy in your fenced back-yard though, so that's added to my decision to not fly there anymore.

I can't find a lot of great resources to read specific law, but I've read everything I can on the federal and state level.

Anyone have some insight on this?

Thanks in advance!

Right now, I'm considering going over one day, knocking on her door, and apologizing. Offering to educate her a little on the drone, and the laws governing them, but I don't think it would do any good.

This may be difficult to read and I apologize but this should answer many questions as to what your rights are in regards to photographing or shooting video.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

View attachment 102913
This may be difficult to read and I apologize but this should answer many questions as to what your rights are in regards to photographing or shooting video.

Here it is as a website write up, basically one attorneys view on how he sees it from a legal stance, so use at your own discretion wiht regards to various federal / state etc laws.
It probably is a decent 'guide'.

Bert P. Krages - Attorney at Law

www.krages.com

Most of it is common sense and decency, sadly many people need a guide for this now.

We have a similar thing published by the Art Law Centre of Australia . . .

Street Photographer's Rights Information Sheet - Arts Law Centre of Australia

Arts Law's Street Photographer's Rights Information Sheet will provide you with the answers for the questions that may arise when you are taking photographs in and of public spaces.

www.artslaw.com.au

 

[S2005]

Thank you all for the replies

I've enjoyed reading all of this! I haven't flown at my parents house since. I agree it isn't really worth the hassle to fight with a Karen.

I've been having fun flying around our bay, and getting footage of that instead. I love water. I'm still mortified to fly over it... haha!

 

[iaincaradoc]

I’ve had a printed copy of Krages’ document in my camera bag so long that I’ve had to reprint it twice.

Next time, I’m going to laminate it and stick it in the laptop pocket.

Here’s the direct link to the PDF. It’s fairly US-centric.

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf